Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 151 152 [153] 154 155 ... 228

Author Topic: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?  (Read 442910 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #760 on: April 24, 2018, 01:04:44 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on April 24, 2018, 12:06:05 PM
Subborn, just admit it.  You have no idea what we're even arguing about and what it's implications are.
Nope, you've turned into a complete moron alright. You are so screwed up that you don't even realize half the crap your pushing is pure Novus Ordo lies and the other half is a mixture of truth with lies - hence, your firm belief in sededoubtism. 
Logged

Offline forlorn

Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #761 on: April 24, 2018, 01:21:48 PM »
Quote from: Stubborn on April 24, 2018, 11:51:38 AM
A Dogma is nothing other than a doctrine, solemnly defined by the pope. It is not whatever the pope or the pope in union with the bishops teach.

St. Thomas was not a heretic for not believing it, but had he preached against that doctrine, he could have been a heretic if the Church judged him as one.  Now the Church could judge you and the poor Lad and the forlorn fool as heretics for preaching the NO "totality doctrine" as if it is a "Dogmatic truth", as you call it.

The reason your "totality doctrine" is heresy is because in order to adhere to that NO doctrine, you MUST reject defined dogma, which is exactly what you have been doing.
Again you completely dodge the point. If one today did not believe in the Immaculate Conception, they would be a heretic. They do not have to preach against it, holding heretical beliefs is sufficient to be a heretic. But as you yourself said, St. Thomas was not a heretic despite not believing in the Immaculate Conception.
So what changed? The Immaculate Conception was dogmatically defined by the Extraordinary Magisterium. That proves that it is adherence to the Magisterium or lack thereof that decide whether one is a heretic or not. One can have beliefs that are contrary to the truth, such as St. Thomas had, but if said truths(such as the Immaculate Conception) have not yet been defined by the infallible Magisterium, then one is not a heretic for said beliefs. 
Logged

Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #762 on: April 24, 2018, 01:34:27 PM »
Quote from: forlorn on April 24, 2018, 01:21:48 PM
Again you completely dodge the point. If one today did not believe in the Immaculate Conception, they would be a heretic. They do not have to preach against it, holding heretical beliefs is sufficient to be a heretic. But as you yourself said, St. Thomas was not a heretic despite not believing in the Immaculate Conception.
So what changed? The Immaculate Conception was dogmatically defined by the Extraordinary Magisterium. That proves that it is adherence to the Magisterium or lack thereof that decide whether one is a heretic or not. One can have beliefs that are contrary to the truth, such as St. Thomas had, but if said truths(such as the Immaculate Conception) have not yet been defined by the infallible Magisterium, then one is not a heretic for said beliefs.
You have a Novus Ordo understanding of the whole issue. This means that you can discus this issue at length and on the same merry-go-round as poor Lad and get just as far as he's gotten - right into sededoubtism.

As for what dogma is and when to believe it - all you need to do is confirm that all the bishops in the world are in union with the pope when whatever he / they teaches suits you - because that is what you say is dogma, everyone else is a heretic. Remember now?
Logged

Offline forlorn

Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #763 on: April 24, 2018, 01:46:36 PM »
Quote from: Stubborn on April 24, 2018, 01:34:27 PM
You have a Novus Ordo understanding of the whole issue. This means that you can discus this issue at length and on the same merry-go-round as poor Lad and get just as far as he's gotten - right into sededoubtism.

As for what dogma is and when to believe it - all you need to do is confirm that all the bishops in the world are in union with the pope when whatever he / they teaches suits you - because that is what you say is dogma, everyone else is a heretic. Remember now?
Nice try, but the Immaculate Conception was defined ex cathedra. 

Now please address the issue instead of dodging it. What was it, if not the defining of the dogma ex cathedra(i.e by the Extraordinary Magisterium), that made St. Thomas not a heretic but someone who denies the same truth today a heretic?
Logged

Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #764 on: April 24, 2018, 01:49:49 PM »
The Immaculate Conception has been a feast of the Church on December 8th for Centuries, since WAY before it was defined in the 1800s.  It has been an IMPLICIT part of the Faith since Apostolic times.  St Thomas Aquinas never denied this truth; he never denied that Our Lady had a special grace, or that She was sinless from birth.  What was being debated was when conception occurred and when the soul was infused, which St Thomas thought was AFTER the physical cells had formed.  The Church, by defining this dogma, clarified in a sense, (and in advance of the age of abortion) that life began at conception.  Before that time, scientists debated when life actually happened. 
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 151 152 [153] 154 155 ... 228
« previous next »