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Author Topic: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?  (Read 443558 times)

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Offline Stubborn

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #140 on: March 20, 2018, 06:14:40 AM »
The Universal Ordinary Magisterium is infallible always. That’s de fide, not bogus.
This is not in dispute.

What is in dispute is that your statement, which is truth, is being used to promote the error that the pope / hierarchy are themselves  the Ordinary, the Solemn,  and the Universal Magisterium, that these people are infallible [even] when they aren't, and that whatever the pope alone or in a council teaches, is by that account made a part of the magisterium - and this error is endlessly promoted in spite of both historical (V2 itself) and present (it's aftermath) reality, which reality must necessarily be entirely rejected and denied in order to consistently promote this error - in an erudite manner of course.

In a nutshell, they boil it down to either one has faith in and believes the above promoted error and on that account, rejects all things Catholic and is a devout NOer (as "the magisterium" teaches), or, they consistently prove that they have no faith whatsoever, by that I mean they indisputably prove that they have absolutely zero, zilch, nada faith in their own false idea of what the magisterium is, reject what the magisterium actually is, then profess one or more of the varieties of sedeism.  All this is, is iniquitous. All this false ideology proves is that it serves absolutely no purpose except to make people workers of iniquity as they strive, often at great length, to reject that which actually is de fide.

Offline drew

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #141 on: March 20, 2018, 07:22:26 AM »
Catholic Encyclopedia:

You have eliminated the Magisterium as the PROXIMATE RULE OF FAITH.  Consequently, you leave a vacuum, which is invariably filled with your private judgment.  That's identical to Protestantism.  I'm stunned that you don't understand this.

Ladislaus,

Although you may not, others will appreciate the irony of this post where you insist that the magisterium is "extrinsic to the faith."  Again you are repeating the same error again, that has been previously corrected, without any reflection upon its implications.  You accuse others of being “Protestant” but this present error you are professing IS a fundamental doctrine of Protestantism.

Faith is believing what God has revealed on the authority of God the revealer.  What is “extrinsic” to the faith, is extrinsic to God’s revelation and God’s authority as revealer.  You claim that the “magisterium is the rule of faith” and that this “magisterium” is extrinsic to and therefore, not a part of God’s revelation and God’s authority.  If it is not from God, then it is from man, and cannot make any claim to infallibility because infallibility is an attribute of God.

Your doctrine, like every Protestant, claims that the Catholic Magisterium is not from God but is a merely human institution and its claims to infallibility in potentia are bogus.

God often lets other fall into the same doctrinal and moral failings they unjustly accuse others of.

Drew


Offline Stubborn

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #142 on: March 20, 2018, 08:48:16 AM »
God often lets other fall into the same doctrinal and moral failings they unjustly accuse others of.
This.

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #143 on: March 20, 2018, 12:46:39 PM »
I think we need to re-phrase the question.  This whole debate over 'proximate rule' vs 'remote rule' is confusing. 

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #144 on: March 20, 2018, 03:05:18 PM »
Well, let's debate this question:  Which areas of the church are able to err?

Certainly not dogma, nor scripture, nor Tradition.  Also not the infallible magisterium, which explains dogma, scripture and tradition.  So the only piece which can err are the churchmen themselves, which are the ordinary, fallible magisterium.  Debating over which uncorruptible part is the rule of faith is an exercise I don't understand.  Scripture, Tradition, the infallible magisterium - they are ALL important and necessary pieces of the Church, without which, you would not have a Church at all.  Can we all agree on this?

The conclusion of this would be, since churchmen can err, and since the magisterium is dependent on churchmen, that this is the least necessary (in the short term) of all of the 3.  In the long term, it will always exist, so there's no debate on that.  But short term, the magisterium could be affected, therefore scripture/tradition are the most stable of the 3.