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Author Topic: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?  (Read 441478 times)

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #805 on: April 27, 2018, 06:37:21 AM »
This NO ladism has already been exposed and you've already been corrected on this. For convenience.....


I had to look this ladism up -  just as I thought, not only is such a thing ["Disciplinary Infallibility"]*not* "held by all theologians" at all, it was never even discussed by any of them. This means Disciplinary infallibility is a new term and like all things NO, has multiple, novel meanings.  It did not even exist prior to 19th/20th century. "Disciplinary infallibility" is another NO innovation, a product of the unanimous vote of NO authors that poor Lad is promoting again as if it is something traditionally Catholic.


From the CE:
"What connexion is there between the discipline of the Church and her infallibility? Is there a certain disciplinary infallibility?

It does not appear that the question was ever discussed in the past by theologians unless apropos of the canonization of saints and the approbation of religious orders. It has, however, found a place in all recent [NO] treatises on the Church.

The authors of these treatises decide unanimously in favor of a negative and indirect rather than a positive and direct infallibility blah blah blah..."
Given the Catholic Encyclopedia was written/compiled in 1909 "recent treatises" can not mean "NO" (Novus Ordo).  

The Catholic Encyclopedia also states:

From the disciplinary infallibility of the Church, correctly understood as an in indirect consequence of her doctrinal infallibility, it follows that she cannot be rightly accused of introducing into her discipline anything opposed to the Divine Law.

The Council of Trent also states (liturgy = discipline):

"If anyone says that the ceremonies, vestments, and outward signs which the Catholic Church uses in the celebration of masses, are incentives to impiety rather than stimulants to piety, let him be anathema."

Offline Stubborn

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #806 on: April 27, 2018, 07:18:56 AM »
Given the Catholic Encyclopedia was written/compiled in 1909 "recent treatises" can not mean "NO" (Novus Ordo).  
Ladism: "Again, this is nothing more than the Disciplinary Infallibility of the Church ... which is held to be theologically certain by all theologians."

CE: It does not appear that the question was ever discussed in the past by theologians...

CE: It has, however, found a place in all recent treatises on the Church.

Recent treaties = not of tradition =  began with 19th / 20th century theologians speculations, which is the only place such an idea is found - per the CE. Likely it is also found among V2 docuмents or other false teachings of the NO.

The Church's Disciplines, depending on one's opinion of what that even is, the Church changes with cultures and over time - that is just a fact. Anything that is subject to change, is subject to corruption, not infallibility, therefore, there is no divine guarantee of safety regarding the Church's disciplines.

This particular Ladism attempts to extend the Church's infallibility to the general discipline of the Church as if that false idea actually is teaching of the Church. But this is wrong. There is no teaching of the Church agreeing with him on this.

As the CE states, prior to  V1 there was no such thing even discussed at all. Per the CE, this idea is a recent, aka not traditional idea that ladism raises to the level of "theologically certain" because he wrongfully states that "all theologians" held it, but by default, being a recent idea it is not traditional.

All this ladism is, is a false idea that NOers wrongly believe to be a teaching of the Church - which if it actually is a Church teaching, then we are all wrong for not being NO and all trads are at least stupid for being trads in the first place.





Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #807 on: April 27, 2018, 07:23:10 AM »
Ladism: "Again, this is nothing more than the Disciplinary Infallibility of the Church ... which is held to be theologically certain by all theologians."

CE: It does not appear that the question was ever discussed in the past by theologians...

CE: It has, however, found a place in all recent treatises on the Church.

Recent treaties = not of tradition =  began with 19th / 20th century theologians speculations, which is the only place such an idea is found - per the CE. Likely it is also found among V2 docuмents or other false teachings of the NO.

The Church's Disciplines, depending on one's opinion of what that even is, the Church changes with cultures and over time - that is just a fact. Anything that is subject to change, is subject to corruption, not infallibility, therefore, there is no divine guarantee of safety regarding the Church's disciplines.

This particular Ladism attempts to extend the Church's infallibility to the general discipline of the Church as if that false idea actually is teaching of the Church. But this is wrong. There is no teaching of the Church agreeing with him on this.

As the CE states, prior to  V1 there was no such thing even discussed at all. Per the CE, this idea is a recent, aka not traditional idea that ladism raises to the level of "theologically certain" because he wrongfully states that "all theologians" held it, but by default, being a recent idea it is not traditional.

All this ladism is, is a false idea that NOers wrongly believe to be a teaching of the Church - which if it actually is a Church teaching, then we are all wrong for not being NO and all trads are at least stupid for being trads in the first place.
Meanwhile, the Council of Trent anathematizes anyone who speaks negatively of the Church's liturgy (aka discipline).  This is what all trads do regarding the Novus Ordo.

Offline Stubborn

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #808 on: April 27, 2018, 07:38:26 AM »
Meanwhile, the Council of Trent anathematizes anyone who speaks negatively of the Church's liturgy (aka discipline).  This is what all trads do regarding the Novus Ordo.
The NO liturgy is not the Church's liturgy and Trent itself would have condemned it had it been perpetrated before Trent.

Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #809 on: April 27, 2018, 07:43:00 AM »
Disciplinary infallibility is no "Ladism", idiot.

Here are the parts of CE that you left out (since you cite CE as an authority):

All this article was saying is that disciplinary infallibility is a negative and indirect infallibility ... to the extent that discipline has doctrinal implications.
It is ladism. We see that now, your promoting negative infallibility - a Nadoism.

You be the guy who just sticks with your own isms from now on and I'll be the guy who keeps calling you out.