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Author Topic: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?  (Read 443438 times)

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Offline forlorn

Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #585 on: April 16, 2018, 01:01:58 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on April 16, 2018, 12:52:15 PM
There's nothing puerile about this.  You just can't get your mind around it.  I say that Van Noort agrees with the Church, whereas Drew says he does not.  So, then, does he or doesn't he?  I say Fenton agrees with the Church, but you say he does not.  So does he or does he not?  You're saying that YOUR perspective is consistent with dogma, and the other one is wrong.  I guess that leaves each one of us to decide what is consistent with dogma and what is not ... without a final arbiter.  So then our own private judgment becomes our own rule of faith.

That's where the Magisterium comes in ... for Catholics anyway, as that objective arbiter.  This is Catholicism 101 vs. the Protestant heresies.

Why do you think the Prots have split up into some 23,000+ sects.  Person A decides that X is consistent with Scripture, Person B decides that X is not consistent with Scripture.  And for each person there's a unique rule, his own private judgment.
And 23,000 sects doesn't cover the half of it. Each Protestant pastor feels comfortable disagreeing with his own sect on whatever issues he pleases, and even Protestant laymen feel perfectly free to disagree with their own pastor. Not to mention the so-called "non-denominational" "Christians". Truly the road Drew would have us follow is a road to ruin. 
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Online Stubborn

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #586 on: April 16, 2018, 02:03:16 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on April 16, 2018, 01:13:56 PM
It's already happening to a degree.  Look at how many Traditonal groups there already are out there.  It's because there's a vacuum of Magisterium.  It's because the Shepherd has been struck that the sheep are scattered.
You refuse to believe what the Magisterium even is. The Magisterium is not the hierarchy, nor does it become what the hierarchy teaches - and it certainly is not the pope. See if it is possible for you to wrap your mind around this - at least give it a try for once..........

Magisterium:

"...all that has been handed down as divinely revealed by the ordinary teaching authority of the entire Church spread over the whole world, and which, for this reason, Catholic theologians, with a universal and constant consent, regard as being of the faith." - Pope Pius IX, Tuas Libenter


Wherefore, by divine and Catholic faith all those things are to be believed which are contained in the word of God as found in scripture and tradition, and which are proposed by the Church as matters to be believed as divinely revealed, whether by her solemn judgment or in her ordinary and universal magisterium. - Pope Pius IX, First Vatican Council


Start wrapping - (not rapping).
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Offline forlorn

Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #587 on: April 16, 2018, 02:07:09 PM »
Quote from: Stubborn on April 16, 2018, 02:03:16 PM
You refuse to believe what the Magisterium even is. The Magisterium is not the hierarchy, nor does it become what the hierarchy teaches - and it certainly is not the pope. See if it is possible for you to wrap your mind around this - at least give it a try for once..........

Magisterium:

"...all that has been handed down as divinely revealed by the ordinary teaching authority of the entire Church spread over the whole world, and which, for this reason, Catholic theologians, with a universal and constant consent, regard as being of the faith." - Pope Pius IX, Tuas Libenter


Wherefore, by divine and Catholic faith all those things are to be believed which are contained in the word of God as found in scripture and tradition, and which are proposed by the Church as matters to be believed as divinely revealed, whether by her solemn judgment or in her ordinary and universal magisterium. - Pope Pius IX, First Vatican Council


Start wrapping - (not rapping).
The ordinary Magisterium is what the hierarchy teaches. You are conflating it with infallible Magisterium. The universal ordinary Magisterium are issues on which all Bishops and the Pope are in agreement on, and are infallible. The extraordinary Magisterium are teachings from EcuŠ¼enical Councils or ex cathedra.

We are required to give religious assent to ALL of the Magisterium, whether infallible or not. 
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Online Stubborn

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #588 on: April 16, 2018, 02:19:13 PM »
Quote from: forlorn on April 16, 2018, 02:07:09 PM
The ordinary Magisterium is what the hierarchy teaches. You are conflating it with infallible Magisterium. The universal ordinary Magisterium are issues on which all Bishops and the Pope are in agreement on, and are infallible. The extraordinary Magisterium are teachings from EcuŠ¼enical Councils or ex cathedra.

We are required to give religious assent to ALL of the Magisterium, whether infallible or not.
Did you not just read from V1 those things that we are bound to believe? He does not say we are to give religious ascent to ALL the Magisterium because THAT makes no sense whatsoever. Read his instructions again read it over and over until you fully understand what he is saying.

A few examples of the Ordinary teachings of the Universal Magisterium that the pope is talking about:

Doctrine of Divine Providence
Limbo
St. John the Baptist born without Original Sin
Doctrine of our Guardian Angels
Doctrine of the Church's Indefectibility


These are all "...points of doctrine which, with common and constant consent, are held in the Church as truths and as theological conclusions so certain that opposing opinions, though they may not be dubbed heretical, nonetheless, merit some other form of theological censure." - Pope Pius IX, Tuas Libenter
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Online Stubborn

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #589 on: April 16, 2018, 02:21:40 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on April 16, 2018, 02:19:50 PM
He's conflating about 3 or 4 different things in that last post.  He's always conflating things.
FYI, you are the conflation expert, I am simply reading what is written.
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