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Author Topic: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?  (Read 440908 times)

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Offline Stubborn

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #1000 on: May 10, 2018, 05:14:08 AM »
This is quite a childish tactic and extremely deceptive. First, you definitely posted those quotes knowing full well that they do not apply. Second, you add a prediction that I will say they don't apply, because they don't, so that you can look like you are right and super intelligent. It's hilarious. I don't, however, think they support the position that the Papacy can remain vacant for an undetermined amount of time. So you were wrong on that one.
No, it is no tactic at all, and there is no deception involved because those Catholic quotes are the simple truths to live and die by,  have always been the simple truth and will forever remain simple, Catholic truths to live by.

It's simple, basic Catholicity - sedeism, being a *new* idea, is not Catholic. This new idea is accepted and promoted only by a  few as if it is doctrine, which means sedewhateverism cannot be Catholic. The whole idea has not been held as a part of Catholic doctrine through all the generations of the Church by the vast majority of the people, that is how we know it is not Catholic.

Like all sedes who cling to error, poor lad argues against this teaching saying basically the reason sedeism is new, is because it's a reaction to a new situation - it is for this reason that these quoted teachings do not and cannot apply - and he says this as if our Holy Mother did not already forewarn us of what She expects of us in this type of situation.

The Church always condemning as an act of schism those who presume to decide the status of the pope, we may be absolutely certain is not among those expectations. So we may be absolutely certain of at least one course that we may never presume to undertake, sedevacantism.

Your argument against the quoted teachings by attempting to equate sedewhateverism to the period of sede vacante, the space of time between the death and election of popes, is altogether childish, bordering on insanity in virtue of reality.




 




Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #1001 on: May 10, 2018, 08:48:14 AM »
The situation at Saint Athanasius has caused me to take more of an interest in the issue of sedeism than I had.  It has been interesting indeed.  Having opinions is one thing, but that is not what is going on in the parish.  We have a priest omitting the prayer for the Pope at Mass and various other parts of the liturgy (e.g. Litany of the Saints, Exsultet), and openly attacking the position traditionally associated with Archbishop Lefebvre.  I don't buy it, no priest has the authority to decide such things, only the Church.  At some point the Church will presumably deal with this issue but we are not there yet.


Offline Meg

Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #1002 on: May 10, 2018, 09:16:11 AM »
In the meantime you will continue to be the good and faithful subject of an open and manifest apostate? That is what it boils down to. The Sedes are not trying to take over the role of the ecclesiastical authority of the Church. There are just some things the faithful must recognize and there are Dogmas which prevent us from considering these men Catholic, let alone our hierarchy.


It's not like you sedes are "trying" to take over the ecclsiatiscal authority of the Church. You ALREADY have taken that role. You have determined that all Catholics MUST accept your proclamation that Francis isn't the pope.

You are not allowing other Catholics to believe that +ABL was correct in his assessment of the situation. You do not allow any other view, except your own. Whereas we who follow +ABL do admit that the Pope may not be the Pope, but that we don't have the authority to make that determination (that Francis isn't the Pope).

Offline Meg

Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #1003 on: May 10, 2018, 09:25:30 AM »
True.

It is a dogma that manifest heretics are outside the Church and this is not a novelty.

Anyone has a doubt on that?

What I doubt is that you have the authority to force others to accept your proclamations regarding the Pope.

Offline Meg

Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #1004 on: May 10, 2018, 09:27:15 AM »
True.

It is a dogma that manifest heretics are outside the Church and this is not a novelty.

If you want to argue that Bergoglio is NOT a manifest heretic, that is one thing. But you cannot say that a manifest heretic who is not a member of the Church can be Pope and head of the Church.

Anyone has a doubt on that?

We don't actually have to "prove" anything to you or any other sede. We simply take the prudent route, as +ABL did.