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Author Topic: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils  (Read 14834 times)

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Offline poenitens

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Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
« Reply #135 on: June 27, 2023, 10:44:50 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on June 27, 2023, 10:41:45 PM
    Why not just get confirmed by +Zendejas?
    I don't know how to contact Bp. Zendejas and I don't think the Resistance has a mission in the city where I live in.
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    ¡Viva Jesús!

    Please, disregard any opinions and references that I have posted that may seem favorable to any traditionalist group, especially those that pertinaciously deny EENS (CMRI, Sanborn, Dolan and associates, for example).

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #136 on: June 27, 2023, 10:49:36 PM »
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    • Quote from: poenitens on June 27, 2023, 10:44:50 PM
    I don't know how to contact Bp. Zendejas and I don't think the Resistance has a mission in the city where I live in.

    +Zendejas is sometimes in Mexico (as is +Williamson, as recently as November), so there are missions there.

    Matthew can put you in touch if you desire.
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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline poenitens

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #137 on: June 27, 2023, 11:03:16 PM »
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    • THanks, I just sent him a message
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    ¡Viva Jesús!

    Please, disregard any opinions and references that I have posted that may seem favorable to any traditionalist group, especially those that pertinaciously deny EENS (CMRI, Sanborn, Dolan and associates, for example).

    Offline Catholicfromeurope

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #138 on: June 24, 2025, 04:16:11 AM »
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    • Can I be sure that all priests in sspx are validly ordained by sspx bishops before 2023? I hope they used all the time validly consecrated oils (before Huonder)
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    Offline Godefroy

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #139 on: June 24, 2025, 05:40:58 AM »
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    • Quote from: Catholicfromeurope on June 24, 2025, 04:16:11 AM
    Can I be sure that all priests in sspx are validly ordained by sspx bishops before 2023? I hope they used all the time validly consecrated oils (before Huonder)
    No we can't be sure. There is at least one priest in France who was ordained in the novos ordo. Mgr Lefevbre knew about this and decided against conditional ordination. Amongst the faithful who care about these matters, these things are known.  
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    Offline Catholicfromeurope

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #140 on: June 24, 2025, 08:13:22 AM »
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    • I mean, if I go to a priest who was ordained BY SSPX BISHOP before 2023, may I be sure he is validly ordained?
    That there were valid oils? I dont talk about NOM priests who came to SSPX, but I talk about priests prepared and ordained by SSPX bishops before 2023. I hope I explained it better now.
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    Offline VivaJesus

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #141 on: June 24, 2025, 10:10:08 AM »
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    • Quote from: Catholicfromeurope on June 24, 2025, 08:13:22 AM
    I mean, if I go to a priest who was ordained BY SSPX BISHOP before 2023, may I be sure he is validly ordained?
    That there were valid oils? I dont talk about NOM priests who came to SSPX, but I talk about priests prepared and ordained by SSPX bishops before 2023. I hope I explained it better now.
    Using invalidly consecrated oils does not invalidate an ordination. It definitely renders it sacrilegious and, I guess, it may render sacrilegious all Masses celebrated by the validly ordained new priest with non-consecrated hands. Somebody else correct me if I'm wrong in this last point.

    Invalidly consecrated oils would invalidate the sacrament of confirmation and extreme unction, but NOT ordinations.

    EDIT: If you are concerned about one particular priest, ask him directly the details about his ordination. If he refuses to answer, ask his superior. If he refuses to answer, ask Cathinfo. In any case, pray.
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    Offline Catholicfromeurope

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #142 on: June 24, 2025, 12:52:09 PM »
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    • This priest was ordained by Bishop Mallerais in 2017...well I will ask him for details of his ordaining...
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    Offline OABrownson1876

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #143 on: Yesterday at 10:23:58 AM »
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    • And to compound matters, if there are four or five priests, and one is NO, if the NO priest consecrates the ciborium in the tabernacle - PROBLEM!!!  You could go the Mass of a true priest, but when retrieves the ciborium from the tabernacle you are getting potentially a piece of bread on your tongue.  Welcome to the NO Madness!

    We had a priest in Louisville, he was ordained in 1943, but he said the true Mass.  One day he did just that, pulled the ciborium out of the tabernacle and the hosts had been consecrated by Fr. Bob the Novus Ordo presider.  If there are just a few people at Mass the priest might just consecrate a few hosts on his paten.  
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    Offline OABrownson1876

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #144 on: Yesterday at 10:32:33 AM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on April 10, 2023, 07:45:53 AM
    There would be no doubt regarding the validity of confirmations administered by a certainly validly ordained priest who received delegation from his bishop.

    The salient point here is that the SSPX didn’t use +Lazo in such a capacity which would engender doubts, in light of his consecration in the new rite (as it is now using +Huonder).
    When bishop Lazo visited St. Thomas Aquinas in 1997 I spoke to him personally.  He told me that he had read the Great Sacrilege and that is one of the books that converted him to tradition.  But Bp. Lazo was consecrated in 1970, so, once again, was he a valid bishop?  Fr. Wathen and some other priests gave a sermon on the Bishop Lazo Letter. Bishop Lazo slammed JP II pretty hard in the Bishop Lazo Letter.

    I have the Bishop Lazo sermon by Fr. Wathen on my Rumble channel.  You can access it through the Brownson site. 
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    Bryan Shepherd, M.A. Phil.
    PO Box 17248
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    Louisville, Ky. 40217; email:letsgobryan@protonmail.com. substack: bryanshepherd.substack.com
    website: www.orestesbrownson.org. Rumble: rumble.com/user/Orestes76

    Offline TomGubbinsKimmage

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #145 on: Yesterday at 01:25:22 PM »
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    • Quote from: OABrownson1876 on Yesterday at 10:32:33 AM
    When bishop Lazo visited St. Thomas Aquinas in 1997 I spoke to him personally.  He told me that he had read the Great Sacrilege and that is one of the books that converted him to tradition.  But Bp. Lazo was consecrated in 1970, so, once again, was he a valid bishop?  Fr. Wathen and some other priests gave a sermon on the Bishop Lazo Letter. Bishop Lazo slammed JP II pretty hard in the Bishop Lazo Letter.

    I have the Bishop Lazo sermon by Fr. Wathen on my Rumble channel.  You can access it through the Brownson site.


    Not 100 percent here, but I would imagine Lazo was conditionally consecrated.
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    Offline Twice dyed

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #146 on: Yesterday at 01:58:48 PM »
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    • https://www.tridentines.com/pages/abuse-SSPX#section-4

    Under Stephen Heiner heading...
    This quote of Fr. Carl Pulvermacher is perfectly suited for this question of Novus Ordo "bishops".
    /Church.

    From Angelus, Feb 6, 2008.

    "...Another parishioner once asked Father how it was possible that the Church was doing what she was doing. He replied that:

        “When the bishops as a whole exonerated the Jews for the death of Christ, they themselves took on the blindness of the Jews.”
    ...
    And nowhere was the death and suffering of Our Lord more deeply commemorated than a Good Friday Stations of the Cross at Dickinson in the late 1970s. Father Carl had been suffering from kidney stones and he still did every station, each genuflection causing tears to come to his eyes, and in the late stations, they were just rolling down his cheeks. As he finished the stations he went out the backdoor into an ambulance and went directly to the hospital. None of the parishioners there that day ever forgot that...."

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    Stay clear of blinded bishops.  Intention matters when administrating any sacrament. 
    Not sure if that Angelus issue is currently available ..?
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    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #147 on: Yesterday at 04:32:54 PM »
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    • Quote from: VivaJesus on June 24, 2025, 10:10:08 AM
    Using invalidly consecrated oils does not invalidate an ordination. It definitely renders it sacrilegious and, I guess, it may render sacrilegious all Masses celebrated by the validly ordained new priest with non-consecrated hands. Somebody else correct me if I'm wrong in this last point.

    Invalidly consecrated oils would invalidate the sacrament of confirmation and extreme unction, but NOT ordinations.

    EDIT: If you are concerned about one particular priest, ask him directly the details about his ordination. If he refuses to answer, ask his superior. If he refuses to answer, ask Cathinfo. In any case, pray.
    Isn't the oils an essential part of consecrating a Bishop???
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #148 on: Yesterday at 07:03:24 PM »
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    • Quote from: AnthonyPadua on Yesterday at 04:32:54 PM
    Isn't the oils an essential part of consecrating a Bishop???

    Not essential in the sense that lack of consecrated oils would invalidate.
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    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #149 on: Yesterday at 09:02:52 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on Yesterday at 07:03:24 PM
    Not essential in the sense that lack of consecrated oils would invalidate.
    Ok thanks good to know.
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