Author Topic: Angelus Press Sells NO Music?  (Read 3607 times)

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Offline Neil Obstat

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Angelus Press Sells NO Music?
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2012, 03:35:22 PM »
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  • Quote from: John Grace
    http://z10.invisionfree.com/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=10232
    Quote
    They already removed Fr. Fahey's works, didn't they? I don't pay that much attention to their catalog, but if anyone does, have they noticed more of this trend? And like MC says, has anyone called to see if they're just out of stock?


    I checked earlier and whilst nothing comes up in the search box of the Angelus Press website, they do list The Kingship of Christ and Organised Naturalism under books on Social Doctrine.

    http://z10.invisionfree.com/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=10232
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    Well, I just phoned Angelus press. All that the rather nervous-sounding young man on the phone could tell me is that I Accuse the Council is out of stock and they therefore removed it from their website. He said that he could not offer any time-frame for when they would be printing more and recommended that I contact Society chapels with bookstores near me to see if I can get a copy from them. I did not get the impression that it will be reprinted any time soon since he said it has not been scheduled for a reprinting at this time.

    I may try following-up with the editor Mr. Vogel, although I was met with stony silence the last time I wrote to him (complaining about the over-the-top "Nazism is the worse evil ever in the history of the universe" articles by some German chap) so I am not overly optimistic I'll get a response.


    http://z10.invisionfree.com/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=10232
    Quote
    I have now emailed Mr. Vogel, the editor of Angelus Press (also of "Against the Rumours" fame). We'll see what response, if any, I receive.


    Angelus Press has an e-book available, called The Catechism of the Crisis in
    the Church
    by Fr. Matthias Gaudron, translated from German, revised and
    edited by the Dominican Fathers of Avrille (aren't they the ones whom +Fellay
    punished by not ordaining their deacons in June?)

    Is anyone familiar with both, this and I Accuse the Council, so as to say
    what's in the latter that would be more objectionable for a making a "deal" ?

    Why don't they make I Accuse the Council available by e-book?!
    They might sell MORE of them that way!! Isn't it all about selling copy??



    Maybe +Fellay made a "deal" already, something he forgot to mention at the
    General Chapter (he said he "shared everything," but that doesn't necessarily
    mean he explained all the verbal communication he has had with Rome). He may
    have agreed, for example, to not re-print that objectionable book. And then he
    may have instructed Angelus Press that not only is it not to be reprinted, but
    anyone who mentions that fact to the public will be fired without warning!

    We ought to keep an eye on who gets fired from Angelus these days: they might
    be a wealth of information!
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    Offline Quo Vadis Petre

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    Angelus Press Sells NO Music?
    « Reply #16 on: July 19, 2012, 05:55:20 PM »
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  • The problem is still this: even if they removed the offending CD (which they didn't), they still have the post-Vatican II Solesmes recordings (all of them on Angelus Press), Gregorian Chant done a la Novus Ordo, with Dom Claire directing (Introit having not Gloria Patri, the Alleluia Chant having only two Alleluias, and on the Requiem Mass CD, no Dies Irae, etc.). Now I find nothing wrong with the Solesmes singing (probably except their nasality), but it gives the impression that the SSPX are tolerant toward certain Novus Ordo groups.
    "In our time more than ever before, the greatest asset of the evil-disposed is the cowardice and weakness of good men, and all the vigour of Satan's reign is due to the easy-going weakness of Catholics." -St. Pius X

    "If the Church were not divine, this


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Angelus Press Sells NO Music?
    « Reply #17 on: July 19, 2012, 10:46:28 PM »
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  • Quote from: Quo Vadis Petre
    The problem is still this: even if they removed the offending CD (which they didn't), they still have the post-Vatican II Solesmes recordings (all of them on Angelus Press), Gregorian Chant done a la Novus Ordo, with Dom Claire directing (Introit having not Gloria Patri, the Alleluia Chant having only two Alleluias, and on the Requiem Mass CD, no Dies Irae, etc.). Now I find nothing wrong with the Solesmes singing (probably except their nasality), but it gives the impression that the SSPX are tolerant toward certain Novus Ordo groups.


    Thanks, QVP, I didn't know this Solemnes CD is missing things:
    ~ Introit has no Gloria Patri
    ~ Alleluia chant has only two alleluias, instead of three
    ~ Requiem Mass CD has no Dies irae

    But you have "etc" after that. Is there more??

    What about the other propers: are they changed, like the Collect/Prayer (if it has
    Introit there must be Collect too), or Graduale or Offertory or Communion/Post
    Communion? Anything else? I'd like to know without finding one to figure it out.
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    Offline Quo Vadis Petre

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    Angelus Press Sells NO Music?
    « Reply #18 on: July 20, 2012, 12:14:20 AM »
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  • I'm saying all the modern Solesmes recordings (all of Angelus Press offerings of Solesmes are modern) follow the Novus Ordo propers, with those things I mentioned peculiar to the Novus Ordo. "Etc." means, among other things, using different propers. Not that I mind (some are more ancient than some of the one in the older rite), but it makes for more options, and the last thing we need is more options. And also they follow a newer Solesmes interpretation, as distinguished from the classic Solesmes (exemplified in the Schola Bellarmina and older Benedictine recordings).
    "In our time more than ever before, the greatest asset of the evil-disposed is the cowardice and weakness of good men, and all the vigour of Satan's reign is due to the easy-going weakness of Catholics." -St. Pius X

    "If the Church were not divine, this

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Angelus Press Sells NO Music?
    « Reply #19 on: July 20, 2012, 01:12:43 AM »
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  • Quote from: Quo Vadis Petre
    I'm saying all the modern Solesmes recordings (all of Angelus Press offerings of Solesmes are modern) follow the Novus Ordo propers, with those things I mentioned peculiar to the Novus Ordo. "Etc." means, among other things, using different propers. Not that I mind (some are more ancient than some of the one in the older rite), but it makes for more options, and the last thing we need is more options. And also they follow a newer Solesmes interpretation, as distinguished from the classic Solesmes (exemplified in the Schola Bellarmina and older Benedictine recordings).


    Okay. I guess that's all right. I was hoping you might be able to easily list the
    differences, but if not, I can deal with it. I might have to ask some people I know
    who are involved with the Novus Ordo music. I'm reluctant to do that because it
    usually results in an argument!

    But you say they use a "different interpretation." Can you provide any clues as to
    what that is, for example? It's a musical interpretation, I would presume.

    Do they use a faster tempo? Is their phrasing different? Do they end their phrases
    with a loud volume, and make abrupt cut-offs? Do they give the individual neums
    a more constant time value, or a less consistent time value? Do they somehow
    introduce a pop-style to the lyric melody, or use harmony?

    I get the feeling that they might use Chantacleer-type idioms.

    One problem I have with the Schola Bellarmina is they always (almost) use an
    organ accompaniment. This is technically incorrect for Gregorian Chant. I know it
    helps them to stay in tune, but there are other techniques to keep intonation
    accurate: especially that of the proper forming of the TONE in each voice, which
    then done well, evokes perfect adherence to pitch, even over a long chant of
    several minutes' duration. But the Schola does not adhere to this principle, nor
    are they willing to learn it, apparently. It seems to be an element of pride there.

    But their overall product is pretty good, otherwise.

    Thank you for your help!
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    Offline Quo Vadis Petre

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    Angelus Press Sells NO Music?
    « Reply #20 on: July 20, 2012, 11:23:56 AM »
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  • They use the researches of Dom Eugene Cardine, who developed Gregorian semiology, which is quite different from the interpretation of the older Solesmes, which the SSPX uses (the rules are in the Liber Usualis). Some Benedictine monasteries opted to stay with the older one, like Notre Dame de Fontgombault and Clear Creek. But I guess you're right; the only people who would notice the difference would be musically inclined.
    "In our time more than ever before, the greatest asset of the evil-disposed is the cowardice and weakness of good men, and all the vigour of Satan's reign is due to the easy-going weakness of Catholics." -St. Pius X

    "If the Church were not divine, this

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Angelus Press Sells NO Music?
    « Reply #21 on: July 20, 2012, 01:27:29 PM »
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  • Thanks. I'll check into that. I appreciate the clues!

    I know some young people who are interested in learning Chant and I'd like to
    know what references to cite, if necessary. You can hardly tell them that so-and-so
    of a local parish is a good Chant master, because they are getting pretty scarce
    these days, and the misinformed are establishing a kind of "new tradition." It
    seems to me that we are seeing the demise of Gregorian Chant art in our own
    generation
    .

    BTW I hope you will find a few minutes to respond in the Resistance sub-forum on
    your old thread I pulled up, on the Jews.
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    Offline magdalena

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    Angelus Press Sells NO Music?
    « Reply #22 on: July 20, 2012, 04:18:14 PM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    Quote from: Quo Vadis Petre
    The problem is still this: even if they removed the offending CD (which they didn't), they still have the post-Vatican II Solesmes recordings (all of them on Angelus Press), Gregorian Chant done a la Novus Ordo, with Dom Claire directing (Introit having not Gloria Patri, the Alleluia Chant having only two Alleluias, and on the Requiem Mass CD, no Dies Irae, etc.). Now I find nothing wrong with the Solesmes singing (probably except their nasality), but it gives the impression that the SSPX are tolerant toward certain Novus Ordo groups.


    Thanks, QVP, I didn't know this Solemnes CD is missing things:
    ~ Introit has no Gloria Patri
    ~ Alleluia chant has only two alleluias, instead of three
    ~ Requiem Mass CD has no Dies irae

    But you have "etc" after that. Is there more??

    What about the other propers: are they changed, like the Collect/Prayer (if it has
    Introit there must be Collect too), or Graduale or Offertory or Communion/Post
    Communion? Anything else? I'd like to know without finding one to figure it out.


    I have one for Maundy Thursday.  The chant seems traditional enough.  It has the Introit, Collect, Gradual, Offertory, Communion/Post Communion as you inquired.  But it also has the Second Reading and General Intercessions of the NO.  No organ music and the longer tones one would expect to hear with Gregorian Chant.  I got it before I realized what I was purchasing.  All in all, the music itself is beautiful.  
    But one thing is necessary. Mary hath chosen the best part, which shall not be taken away from her.
    Luke 10:42


    Offline Ferdinand

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    Angelus Press Sells NO Music?
    « Reply #23 on: July 20, 2012, 04:33:21 PM »
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  • We really need to stop giving any credence to the Bastardized chant of the Nefarious Ordo.... it's just plain offensive!  

    Quote
    The monastic apostate choir of Solesmes!  :facepalm:

    Catholics don't sell Catholics modern recordings from "Solesmes".

    Nefarious Ordo recordings from the formerly Catholic "monastery" of Solesmes is more offensive than Christmas Carols from the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.


    Our Lady of  La Salette, Ora Pro Nobis!

    Offline magdalena

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    Angelus Press Sells NO Music?
    « Reply #24 on: July 20, 2012, 04:44:37 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ferdinand
    We really need to stop giving any credence to the Bastardized chant of the Nefarious Ordo.... it's just plain offensive!  

    Quote
    The monastic apostate choir of Solesmes!  :facepalm:

    Catholics don't sell Catholics modern recordings from "Solesmes".

    Nefarious Ordo recordings from the formerly Catholic "monastery" of Solesmes is more offensive than Christmas Carols from the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.


    Our Lady of  La Salette, Ora Pro Nobis!


    True enough said.  I was just relaying what is on the CD and how the music is performed.  I only listened to the music once and skipped over the NO parts.  I didn't listen to it again until reading Neil's question.  We should always be on the look-out for truly Traditional CD's.  Sorry if I appeared to encourage it.
    But one thing is necessary. Mary hath chosen the best part, which shall not be taken away from her.
    Luke 10:42

    Offline subpallaeMariae

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    Angelus Press Sells NO Music?
    « Reply #25 on: July 22, 2012, 07:21:22 PM »
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  • Quote from: ultrarigorist


    For all those "sermons" about staying off internet fora, Menzigen seems to be watching them like a hawk.


    We have noticed that hypocrisy as well. I was told by a reliable source that Fr. Duverger (assistant to Fr. Rostand) who visited their chapel recently, said in a sermon that he spends many hours every day scanning the internet for talk of the SSPX on forums etc..- Shocking! If you are in the right and you know it- why would you need to know what is being said? Normally those following God's Will have the security to do what is right and not spend time looking over their shoulder to see what the opposition is doing. Why this obsession with silencing the opposition?


    Offline Roman55

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    Angelus Press Sells NO Music?
    « Reply #26 on: July 22, 2012, 07:31:44 PM »
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  • About 2 yrs ago I was sitting in an SSPX chapel where the visiting priest started his sermon with "this, the 22nd Sunday in Ordinary time" and never thought to correct himself or a thing- for the Trads it was the 12th Sunday after Pentecost (I think-memory may have it wrong).  Then, not long after that, a fairly newly ordained sspx priest was visiting and gave the most liberal sermon- backing down and walking back nearly all I'd learned as a trad from SSPX- No. From this view, they are 'watering it all back down'....SSPX should change their name to: "Church of the 60's"

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Angelus Press Sells NO Music?
    « Reply #27 on: July 23, 2012, 09:44:53 AM »
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  • Quote from: subpallaeMariae
    Quote from: ultrarigorist


    For all those "sermons" about staying off internet fora, Menzigen seems to be watching them like a hawk.


    We have noticed that hypocrisy as well. I was told by a reliable source that Fr. Duverger (assistant to Fr. Rostand) who visited their chapel recently, said in a sermon that he spends many hours every day scanning the internet for talk of the SSPX on forums etc..- Shocking! If you are in the right and you know it - why would you need to know what is being said? Normally those following God's Will have the security to do what is right and not spend time looking over their shoulder to see what the opposition is doing. Why this obsession with silencing the opposition?


    It's right out of Rules for Radicals.
    Silence the opposition, suppress resistance, eliminate your opponents.
    Then have an election.

    Think of it as one of the "errors of Russia" that OLF warned against.
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