Author Topic: Geocentrism? Why is that part of the Resistance movement? (Read 58704 times)

LaramieHirsch · « **Reply #25 on:** January 16, 2014, 08:35:35 AM »

Quote from: ggreg

Here we go LH....

Ggreg, look. I am not identifying myself as a pro-geocentric universe guy. I'm not squarely in the camp of Sugenis. Nor do I think the moon landings were faked.

All I am saying is that I am a fan of space, and this whole new question that this Sugenis guy brings up is interesting. If he's wrong, then so what? We get more solidified scientific opinion from the cosmological community that the earth rotates around the sun.

There is no harm in revisiting the basics, especially if someone calls them into question.

I want to see "The Principle." I want other people to see "The Principle." I want to see what the docuмentary has to say, and I want to see the reactions and hear the responses of academics.

As for conspiracy theories or whatever, I'm not interested in obsessing about them. I'm interested in Sugenis' claims and others' responses.

If you are not, then you must neither watch the docuмentary, nor participate on internet forum threads about the subject.

McFiggly · « **Reply #26 on:** January 16, 2014, 08:56:53 AM »

Well, thankfully for their film they have interviewed some of the most eminent, well-credentialed scientists in the world, knowing in advance of scrupulous fellows such as yourself. Once we've seen the film we'll be able to judge whether they have an interesting case or whether they are kooks have quote-mined science celebrities to lend credibility to a case that has none. Will you find the time to watch the film, ggreg? I'm sure that you could sacrifice 90 minutes of forum posting to watch what could potentially (even if the chances are very slim) be one of the most important docuмentaries ever made. If you could not find it in yourself to give them even a chance at that point I would have to think that you are a bigot and a snob who has too great an infatuation with worldly titles and human respectability. I don't want to be rash here though; first I want to discern just how rash you are. Though you certainly are not adhering to the good-natured, simple-hearted principle of Socrates that everybody's point of view is at least worth examination.

This issue is a lot more important than it seems. Copernicanism is the starting point of the Modern World view. When my little sister says she doesn't believe in God because she believes "in the Big Bang and evolution" what she is saying is, "I adopt the underlying Copernican principle that states that the human race has no intrinsic significance to the Universe". Copernicanism is potentially an even greater anti-christ myth than Evolution is. The spiritual consequences of it are, and have been, disastrous. This is why I think dismissing Sungenis out of hand is insanity - because if their is the slimmest of chances that he is right he deserves the closest scrutiny.

ggreg · « **Reply #27 on:** January 16, 2014, 09:05:19 AM »

Of course there is harm.

When people question the truth and do so in a public way, and they are wrong, irrational or plain bonkers then it gives ammunition to the enemies of the Church to attack it and in the eyes of a neutral observer the Church appears to be full of nutters or people who will tolerate and give air-time to nutters.

The same is true in politics. When Sarah Palin makes a stupid comment, the liberals seize on it and castigate the conservatives and this colours some people's opinion of Palin and her supporters.

When you take the subway into work you don't listen to the down-and-out who is ranting and raving. Nor do you listen to the nutcase on 5th Avenue wearing a sandwich board. Why not if there is "no harm in revisiting the basics"?

In order to get through the day you need to be able to make certain judgements about what is true and not true and it is annoying to have these questioned without SOLID evidence and GOOD reason.

The Church saw this would be a problem with Galileo and with Luther. It is destabilizing to daily life if people don't know what they can trust and believe in. The question things when they need questioning is acceptable. But to allow everything to be questioned all of the time just creates noise and confusion.

McFiggly · « **Reply #28 on:** January 16, 2014, 09:13:40 AM »

Quote from: ggreg

If you do believe that it makes driving dangerous and picnics very hard to plan.

Trust is essential to human life and you trust people every single day in order to get through the day.

Christ told us to be as wise as serpents and as harmless as doves. This does not mean we have to distrust everybody down to the indicators on their car and the appointments they make for a picnic; but it does mean that we ought to be very distrustful of everyone and everything that suggests something that would even slightly contradict the Word of God. Once you see that the modern world is a conspiracy to conceal the truth it does not mean that you have to retire to a wood and start making explosives to attack government buildings like the Unabomber (Christ told us on the Mount not to resist evil in this violent way). What it does mean is that you have to abandon the spirit of the modern world with your entire mind, heart and soul - but that has been the same ever since in the Incarnation. From the very moment Christ began his ministry it has been necessary for us to be "in the world, but not of the world". I envision this as being the Exodus story. It's every Christian's duty to relive Exodus - to have the faith to walk out of the fantastic mirage that is Egypt and through the Red Sea towards the Promised Land. That's a journey that every Christian has had to make since Jesus Christ told St. Andrew to put down his fishing net and follow Him. We live in the New Egypt, "Mystery Babylon". The Apocalypse tells us that the place that is spiritually called "Sodom and Egypt" is where our Saviour was crucified. The Modern world is spiritually called Sodom and Egpyt. The Modern World is spiritually where the people cry, "Crucify him! Crucify him!". Our Saviour is crucified every day in the Modern World. I'm perfectly justified in my condemnation of it. In fact, I do not condemn it nearly enough. I'm far, far, far, far, far, far, far, too weak and double-minded in my condemnation of the Modern World.

ggreg · « **Reply #29 on:** January 16, 2014, 09:17:02 AM »

Quote from: McFiggly

Though you certainly are not adhering to the good-natured, simple-hearted principle of Socrates that everybody's point of view is at least worth examination.

There are 7 billion people in the world and many can put their opinions on line. I think Socrates might run out of listening time today.

Quote from: McFiggly

When my little sister says she doesn't believe in God because she believes "in the Big Bang and evolution" what she is saying is, "I adopt the underlying Copernican principle that states that the human race has no intrinsic significance to the Universe".

Most people who say this are really saying they want to sleep around with less guilt, so they adopt a system of belief that underpins that. How the planets move has got nothing to do with it.

Quote from: McFiggly

Copernicanism is potentially an even greater anti-christ myth than Evolution is. The spiritual consequences of it are, and have been, disastrous. This is why I think dismissing Sungenis out of hand is insanity - because if their is the slimmest of chances that he is right he deserves the closest scrutiny.

Copernicus was a Catholic priest.

I don't think the motion of the planets means a heck of a whole lot in terms of spiritual consequences. So what if the earth moves around the sun? What practical difference does it make?

Evolution, on the other hand, presents no apparent way that Original Sin could have been committed. I fail to see how a tribe of hominids can be guilty of a particular sin and pass that guilt down to their children. A couple can conspire, but a village cannot. Old, sick, young and mentally handicapped people would be less guilty than the ringleaders or not guilty at all.

Christianity is founded on Original Sin being a real and definite thing. Christianity does not require the earth to be fixed in space or make any demands on how things must be cosmologically.