Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Francis, your pope  (Read 13922 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Francis, your pope
« Reply #60 on: April 11, 2014, 01:15:14 PM »
Quote from: Nishant
Quote from: ultrarigorist
Alexander VI actually did his job


Pope Alexander VI was also accused of heresy.

Quote from: Savonarola
For I bear witness in the name of God that this Alexander VI is in no way Pope and cannot be. For quite apart from the execrable crime of simony, by which he got possession of the [papal] tiara through a sacrilegious bargaining, and by which every day he puts up to auction and knocks down to the highest bidder ecclesiastical benefices, and quite apart from his other vices - well-known to all - which I will pass over in silence, this I declare in the first place and affirm it with all certitude, that the man is not a Christian, he does not even believe any longer that there is a God; he goes beyond the final limits of infidelity and impiety


To understand why the accusation was false is to understand why modern sedevacantism is false. Cardinal Billot treats this example in detail.


But of course you won't tell us what the argument was.

Quote from: Cardinal Billot
God cannot…permit that the whole Church accept as Pontiff him who is not so truly and legitimately. Therefore, from the moment in which the Pope is accepted by the Church and united to her as the head to the body, it is no longer permitted to raise doubts about a possible vice of election or a possible lack of any condition whatsoever necessary for legitimacy. For the aforementioned adhesion of the Church heals in the root all fault in the election and proves infallibly the existence of all the required conditions.


Can I assume that this is what you are referring to?

But does the whole Church accept Francis as Pontiff?  I count over 40 Catholic bishops and hundreds of Catholic priests who do not.  I also see that there is much doubt in the minds of many who still "recognize" Francis as the pope.  I have heard many times from them that if a future pope declares the V2 popes to be antipopes they will accept the decision.  So one can hardly claim that the whole Church accepts Francis as the Pontiff.  In fact, an argument can be made that what the entire Conciliar Sect thinks about Francis' claim to the papacy is completely irrelevent because they are not even members of the Church.  So really the disagreement is only between those Catholics who adhere to the Recognize and Resist position and those Catholics who adhere to the sedevacantist position.  If you go by that standard, the R&R group has a majority but certainly it cannot reasonably be claimed that the whole Church accepts Francis.

That being said, I agree with Cardinal Billot's assessment of Pope Alexander VI.  But if Savonarola had been successful in convening a council and proving his accusations and causing the council to condemn Alexander then it would have been a different story altogether.

Quote from: Exurge
To see or to know something is not to judge. -St. Francis de Sales.


Quote from: Canon 188.4
Through tacit resignation, accepted by the law itself, all offices become vacant ipso facto and without any declaration if a cleric: ...n.4. Has publicly forsaken the Catholic Faith.


Quote from: St. Paul (Gal 1:8-9)
[8] But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. [9] As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema.


Quote from: Francis (Jorge Bergoglio)
There is no Catholic God.


Francis, your pope
« Reply #61 on: April 11, 2014, 10:05:28 PM »
Quote from: PerEvangelicaDicta
Yes, someone please explain the hundreds of pictures of the conciliar popes in league with evil men?  That is, blatantly exchanging masonic handshakes or signals or symbols on the papal vestments (Benedict XVI), or like this one... holding hands.
Too many to list.


In order to evangelize you have to go where the need is.


Francis, your pope
« Reply #62 on: April 11, 2014, 10:30:30 PM »
Quote from: poche
Quote from: PerEvangelicaDicta
Yes, someone please explain the hundreds of pictures of the conciliar popes in league with evil men?  That is, blatantly exchanging masonic handshakes or signals or symbols on the papal vestments (Benedict XVI), or like this one... holding hands.
Too many to list.


In order to evangelize you have to go where the need is.


And blatantly exchange not so secret satanic hand signals with them?  Wear their symbolism on papal vestments?  No, you do not understand in the least.  But thank you for your attempt to assuage my fears.  It literally makes my stomach sick.

Anyone else?  Or shall we all stop pretending and/or making excuses?  IT"s RIGHT THERE IN HUNDREDS OF PICTURES many of which have been posted here.

Francis, your pope
« Reply #63 on: April 11, 2014, 10:31:35 PM »
Oh, and I did not down thumb your comment Poche.  I believe you believe that.
But I sure don't.

Francis, your pope
« Reply #64 on: April 12, 2014, 12:55:10 AM »
Quote from: Clemens Maria
In fact, an argument can be made that what the entire Conciliar Sect thinks about Francis' claim to the papacy is completely irrelevent because they are not even members of the Church.


I've been saying this for years. The Conciliarists dredge up this tired old argument all the time. "Well, the whole world recognizes them as Popes; therefore, they're legitimate." What they fail to mention - conveniently for them - is that most of the "whole world" either lost the Faith or never possessed it. "For there shall be a time when they will not endure sound doctrine but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears." --2 St. Timothy 4:3