Author Topic: Francis, your pope (Read 14075 times)

andysloan · « **Reply #15 on:** April 07, 2014, 12:16:07 PM »

To Poche.

I'm afraid that your sound and simple reasoning is not complex enough for most these days!

St. Francis of Paola (1416-1507)

“During this unhappy period there will be laxity in divine and human precepts. Discipline will suffer. The Holy Canons will be completely disregarded and the clergy will not respect the laws of the Church. The Holy Canons and religious dogmas are clouded by senseless questions and elaborate arguments. As a result, no principle at all, however holy, authentic, ancient, and certain it may be, will not remain free of censure, criticism, false interpretations, modifications and delamination by man."

Most fail to make a distinction between the authority of the Seat of Peter and the character of the possessor.

But then that would diminish the fleshly pleasure in finding fault with others; especially those in authority.

2 Corinthians 11:3

"But I fear lest, as the serpent seduced Eve by his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted, and fall from the simplicity that is in Christ."

God bless you!

crossbro · « **Reply #16 on:** April 07, 2014, 12:31:42 PM »

I believe frank is the pope I believe frank is a heretic

it may have something to do with separating the weeds from the wheat Our Lord always focused on the quality over the quantity. Being pope is not an automatic ticket to heaven as the Lord said many are called but few are chosen

andysloan · « **Reply #17 on:** April 07, 2014, 12:51:37 PM »

Clemens Maria said:

"So I think no matter what you decide on the status of Jorge Bergoglio's claim to the papacy."

That basically says it all; everyone to the races; but be sure to call him every Monday to see if he has changed his views!

We have no authority to declare any Pope invalid/heretical and neither can we depart from submission to his supreme prerogative as holder of the Keys.

"We declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff." (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302).

The only exceptions are:

1) We are certain of uncanonical election

2) He declares from the Seat of Peter an uncatholic teaching.

Canon law does not provide for deposition.

And when the time of the Pope prophesied by St Francis of Assisi comes, we can be sure God's providence will trumpet this fact to all God wishes to know of it.

The devils will have unusual power, the immaculate purity of our Order, and of others, will be so much obscured that there will be very few Christians who will obey the true Sovereign Pontiff and the Roman Church with loyal hearts and perfect charity. At the time of this tribulation a man, not canonically elected, will be raised to the Pontificate, who, by his cunning, will endeavour to draw many into error and death. - St Francis of Assisi

But until such a time, Francis is the Pope!!

Mithrandylan · « **Reply #18 on:** April 07, 2014, 12:51:46 PM »

Quote from: poche

Shortly after Pope Benedict resigned, the cardinals met in the Sistine Chapel and closed the doors. Shortly thereafter, white smoke cane out through the chimney. One of the cardinals came to the window and said, "Habemus Papum..." Jorge came to the window and was introduced as the new pope. He says his new name is Francis. Everyone recognizes him as the pope. The news media recognizes him as the pope. Protestants, Orthodox, Muslims etc. all recognize him as the pope (they say that they disagree with him but they recognize him as the pope.) The Catholic Church recognizes him as the pope. His enemies recognize him as the pope. The press recognizes him as the pope. If all these people recognize that Francis is the pope then that is good enough for me. Francis I is the pope of the Catholic Church.

[I'm not actually responding to Poche, but to his argument]

This is a really goofy argument. It only makes sense if you don't actually think about it. What Poche is saying, or trying to say, is that since Francis is universally adhered to or "recognized" as pope, this is an infallible sign that he is pope.

In truth, it is an infallible sign that a man is pope if all the Catholic bishops along with the laity peacefully accept him.

So what the news media and the Jews and the Muslims and the Lutherans think has absolutely zero impact on this doctrine.

So, does the Catholic world peacefully accept and adhere to this man as pope? NOPE. Most Novus Ordites don't go to Church, don't tithe, don't follow the teachings of their pope, eat birth control, live together before marriage, etc.

And the traditionalists, even those who vainly say they "recognize" him don't. They don't submit to his liturgy, his canon law, his catechism, his calendar... there is no adherence at all, much less peaceful acceptance.

One cannot say that these men were peacefully accepted and adhered to, ergo they are popes.

andysloan · « **Reply #19 on:** April 07, 2014, 01:31:47 PM »

To Mithrandylan,

You should read the statement of St Francis de Paola again!

The requirements for his valid election are in Poche's statement:

"Shortly after Pope Benedict resigned, the cardinals met in the Sistine Chapel and closed the doors. Shortly thereafter, white smoke cane out through the chimney. One of the cardinals came to the window and said, "Habemus Papum..."

And his peaceful acceptance is not proof of the validity of election, rather the adherence to canonical rules.

The second part of the Poche's post is bells and whistles.

But such technical inexactitude is not so common these days, because it presents a chance for another to show their erudition/superiority and belittle the writer.

Thus, one would fear to go for breakfast with some on CI, because if you ordered sausage, bacon and eggs, you might to shown to have made a category error.