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Offline Ekim

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Francis and BXVI
« on: February 22, 2014, 07:59:39 AM »
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     The Mystery of Pope Benedict's Resignation Unfolds - Part ll

    I found the observations made in this article very interesting. This in conjunction with today's news reports that Benedict XVI "participated" in the appointment of new Cardinals can only push this observation further.  These are just a rhetorical questions but, why does BXVI cosign Encyclical's of Francis? Why does he participate rather than simply attend?  What is actually meant by the media reports on "participate"?

    Like the old saying goes...if something smells like a skunk....  Something sure stinks around here.

    From: fatimaenews@fatima.org
    Subject: The Mystery of Pope Benedict's Resignation Unfolds - Part ll

    Here is further explanation and information from Antonio Socci regarding Popes Benedict XVI and Francis I. For further commentary, see the article “Latest from Socci: The Papal Games” by Christopher A. Ferrara.
    THE TWO POPES AND US. WHAT IS TRULY
    HAPPENING IN THE CHURCH?
         On February 11th the anniversary of the “renunciation” of the papacy by Benedict XVI was remembered. On February 28 it will be a year since the end of his pontificate. But in recent days what happened in the Vatican a year ago is ever more mysterious. And what is the true nature of the “retirement” of Benedict XVI?
    ALWAYS POPE
         In previous cases, in fact, popes who resign have always returned to their status as cardinal or religious: five months after he abdicated, the famous Celestine V, elected in 1294, returned to being the hermit Peter of Morrone.
         And the legitimate Pope Gregory XII, who, in order to repair the great Western Schism retired from the papal office on July 4, 1415, was reinstated to the Sacred College with the title of Cardinal Angelo Correr, serving as papal legate in Marche.
         Given the precedents, the same spokesman for Benedict, Father Federico Lombardi, during a briefing with reporters on 20 February last year, in answer to the question “and if he decides to call himself Pope Emeritus?”, said: “I would rule it out. ‘Emeritus’ is a bishop who, even after resignation, maintains a link ... in the case of the Petrine ministry it is better to keep things separate.”
         Famous last words. Just one week later, on February 26, the same Father Lombardi had to communicate that Benedict XVI would remain precisely “Pope Emeritus” or “Roman Pontiff Emeritus,” retaining the title of “His Holiness.” He would no longer wear the ring of the fisherman and would dress in a simple white cassock.
         In these days Benedict XVI also refused to change his papal coat of arms, rejecting both a return to the heraldry of a cardinal and the coat of arms of a Pope Emeritus. He will keep the coat of arms of a Pope, with the keys of Peter.
         What does all of this mean? Obviously excluded is any personal vanity for a man who has given proof of total detachment from worldly positions (here it involves matters theological, not worldly goods).
         So, there can be only a weighty historico-ecclesial reason, probably related to the motives for his retirement (for which so many pressed unduly). But what is this reason?
    POPE FOREVER
         The only official explanation lies in his speech of February 27, 2013, the one in which he clarified the limits of his decision:
         “Here, allow me to go back once again to 19 April 2005. The real gravity of the decision was also due to the fact that from that moment on I was duty bound always and forever to the Lord.”
         Attention: I emphasize that expression “always and forever” because the Pope then explained it thus:
         “Always—anyone who accepts the Petrine ministry no longer has any privacy. He belongs always and completely to everyone, to the whole Church (...) he no longer belongs to himself….”
         Then he added, and I quote:
         “The ‘always’ is also a ‘forever’—there is no longer a return to the private sphere. My decision to resign the active exercise of the ministry does not revoke this.”
         It is amazing that a statement of this sort passed unnoticed. If words have meaning, in fact, here Benedict XVI says he renounces “active exercise of the ministry,” but the Petrine ministry, as such, is “forever” and is not revoked. In the sense that his resignation applies only to “active exercise” and not to the Petrine ministry.
         What other meaning can these words have? I do not see it. Hence we must ask what kind of “resignation” was that of Benedict XVI.
         That speech of February 27 seemed consistently to confirm the distinction between “active exercise” and “passive exercise” of the Petrine ministry.
         He said, in fact: “I no longer bear the power of office for the governance of the Church, but in the service of prayer I remain, so to speak, in the enclosure of Saint Peter. Saint Benedict, whose name I bear as Pope, will be a great example for me in this. He showed us the way for a life that, whether active or passive, is completely given over to the work of God.”
         To the fact of these words, and the words “forever” and “ministry not revoked,” were then added the acts of which we have spoken, that is, the permanence of the name Benedict XVI, the dress, the title “His Holiness,” and the pontifical coat of arms.
    IN COMMUNION WITH FRANCIS
         Moreover, perfectly recognized by Pope Francis, who on February 11 broadcast this tweet: “Today I invite you to pray for His Holiness Benedict XVI, a man of great courage and humility.”
         This is a totally new situation in the history of the Church. In past centuries, in fact there have been, again and again, conflicts between popes and anti-popes, even three at a time.
         There had never been, instead, two popes in communion, who recognized each other in the process. I said “two popes,” considering that one of the two is the previous pope, become “Pope Emeritus,” and that involves a completely unheard-of figure.
         What in fact is his theological status? And what does “retirement” from only the “active exercise” of the Petrine ministry mean?
         Benedict XVI, speaking to the cardinals before the conclave, anticipated his reverence for and obedience to his successor. This in fact is the attitude of Benedict toward Francis. The communion between the two was made visible when they co-wrote the encyclical “Lumen fidei.”
         But it is striking that in their filmed encounter at Castel Gandolfo, as well as in the ceremony held in the Vatican gardens to bless the statue of St. Michael, you see the two men of God who embrace each another as brothers, and from neither of the two the gesture of kissing the Ring of the Fisherman. It makes one wonder: who is the Pope?
    A SECRET BETWEEN THEM
         Is there perhaps a secret, between them, which the world ignores? Or are they to be considered on the same level? We know that cannot be because the Church’s divine constitution can have only one Pope. But then?
         There are new and surprising problems in light of which some may also assign unexpected meanings to certain gestures of Francis, such as presenting himself on the balcony of St. Peter only as “Bishop of Rome,” without pontifical vestments, or the lack of the pallium in his Papal coat of arms (the pallium is now the symbol of the pontifical coronation, having replaced the papal tiara).
         Of course people who are now trying to pit one against the other are acting arbitrarily. Moreover, some Lefebvrians and the sedevacantists who question the authority of Francis are equally hostile to Benedict.
         The constant prayer of Benedict for Francis and the Church is perhaps the great prophetic sign of this historic moment.
         However, one cannot pretend that everything is normal, because the situation is almost apocalyptic. And one cannot avoid the questions: about the reasons for the resignation of Benedict, about how many desired it, about the undue pressure they caused. And about his current status.
    AN ERA NEVER SEEN BEFORE
         In the days following the announcement of the resignation, before he had specified his new situation, even Civiltà Cattolica, like Father Lombardi, had committed a gaffe.
         In fact, it published an essay by the canonist Gianfranco Ghirlanda where it was affirmed: “It is clear that a pope who has resigned is no longer pope, and thus no longer has any power in the Church and cannot meddle in any affair of government. It can be asked what title Benedict XVI will retain. We think there should be attributed to him the title of Bishop Emeritus of Rome, like every other diocesan bishop who resigns.”
         In any case, not “Pope Emeritus.” But Benedict has chosen to be precisely “Pope Emeritus.” There must be a very serious reason for deciding to “continue” thus. And the consequences are obvious. His are very important signals sent to those who have to understand them, and to the whole Church.
         He signals that he continues to defend the treasure of the Church, albeit in a new way. And he seems to repeat what he said during his inaugural Mass: “Pray for me, that I may not flee for fear of the wolves.”
    Antonio Socci
    From Il Libero, February 16, 2014

     


    Offline Elizabeth

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    Francis and BXVI
    « Reply #1 on: February 22, 2014, 08:14:53 AM »
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  • Quote from: Ekim
     
     The Mystery of Pope Benedict's Resignation Unfolds - Part ll

    I found the observations made in this article very interesting.




    So did I!! Thank you so much for posting this.


    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Francis and BXVI
    « Reply #2 on: February 22, 2014, 08:32:08 AM »
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  • Once a priest always a priest even in death. Once a Pope always a Pope even in death.
    No clergy especially saints retire from God or our blessed Mother.  

    The Vatican. The bishops and cardinals are treating the Church like a corporation or company.

    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    « Reply #3 on: February 22, 2014, 08:33:12 AM »
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  • Once a priest always a priest even in death. Once a Pope always a Pope even in death.
    No clergy especially saints retire from God or our blessed Mother.  

    The Vatican. The bishops and cardinals are treating the Church like a corporation or company.

    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)

    Offline crossbro

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    Francis and BXVI
    « Reply #4 on: February 22, 2014, 09:53:28 AM »
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  • There is really no mystery.


    When Benedict was elected it was after a stalemate between Francis and himself.

    The media reported the same day or within days that a deal had been cut.

    Benedict resigned after 8 years.

    Francis is 8 years younger than benedict.

    The fact is Francis was not elected in good conscience by the cardinals, but was elected on the basis of a deal that had been cut 8 years earlier.


    Offline Ekim

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    Francis and BXVI
    « Reply #5 on: February 22, 2014, 10:17:58 AM »
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  • Not to mention, Francis prefers the title "Bishop of Rome" rather than "Pope".

    Offline Elizabeth

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    « Reply #6 on: February 22, 2014, 10:26:50 AM »
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  • Ekim, and not to mention that he does not have a Vatican passport; he went and paid for his own Argentinian passport.  I think the passport calls him bishop of rome....too sickened by his Kenneth Copeland episode to think clearly.  Really.




    Offline Neil Obstat

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    « Reply #7 on: February 22, 2014, 11:05:29 AM »
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  • .

    While Antonio Socci has managed to carve out a niche for himself in the world of journalism, he plays fast and loose with language (at least, the translation into English of his native Italian would seem to show him taking liberties with words here).


    Quote from: Antonio Socci

    (Quoting Benedict XVI in his speech of 2-27-2013)...

     “The ‘always’ is also a ‘forever’—there is no longer a return to the private sphere. My decision to resign the active exercise of the ministry does not revoke this.”
         It is amazing that a statement of this sort passed unnoticed. If words have meaning, in fact, here Benedict XVI says he renounces “active exercise of the ministry,” but the Petrine ministry, as such, is “forever” and is not revoked.  [...should not be a new sentence here, for what follows is NOT a sentence...]  In the sense that his resignation applies only to “active exercise” and not to the Petrine ministry.

    ...
         What in fact is his theological status? And what does “retirement” from only the “active exercise” of the Petrine ministry mean?



    Benedict XVI actually SAID (in his Feb. 27th speech last year) that he was RESIGNING the "active exercise of the ministry."  

    It was a bit odd at the time to hear him say he "resigns" because there was no one to resign TO.  The act of resigning means there is an opponent or an adversary or a competitive entity that desires or would have the position which is being abandoned.  But at the time there was nowhere in sight anyone who "would be pope" when Benedict steps down.  For without anyone to immediately pick up where he left off, his action would be properly termed "abdication."  We should have heard him say, "I abdicate" or "I am abdicating."  But he did not say that (in English, of course).

    Then along comes Socci, misquoting him.  Benedict XVI spoke of his decision to resign the active exercise of the ministry.  But  then along comes Socci, repeating his misquote several times in one short article, saying that Benedict "renounces active exercise of the ministry."



    Quote
    ...
      In any case, not “Pope Emeritus.”  But Benedict has chosen to be precisely “Pope Emeritus.” There must be a very serious reason for deciding to “continue” thus. And the consequences are obvious. His are very important signals sent to those who have to understand them, and to the whole Church.



    His signals are very important, says Socci.  They are important to those who "have to understand them."  (This is in English, again, while Socci usually writes in Italian.)  

    And these important signals are now going to be interpreted by the MAIN MAN who "has to understand" these important signals.........


    Quote
        He signals that he continues to defend the treasure of the Church, albeit in a new way.



    Please pardon me for being unable to control myself:   :roll-laugh1:

    Mr. Humility Himself not only DEFENDS THE TREASURE of the Church, he CONTINUES to defend the treasure of the Church -- and he does so in a "new way," you see, which way would be his utter disregard and annihilation of everything in SIGHT, like a one-man wrecking crew?!  That kind of defense of the treasures of the Church?  Is that it?!?!

    I hope I'm not presumptuous thinking the readers of CI need an explanation of how Mr. Humility Himself has utterly FAILED to defend just about every treasure to which he comes close in the past year, so far.


    Quote
    And he seems to repeat what he said during his inaugural Mass: “Pray for me, that I may not flee for fear of the wolves.”

    Antonio Socci

    From Il Libero, February 16, 2014



    So now he "seems to repeat" this, does he?  How, pray tell, does Socci divine that Francis is seeming to repeat something at all, and furthermore, that he is seeming to repeat this, in particular?  


    Please note:  the date at the bottom of this is the Feast of St. Valentine, February 16th.

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    Offline Centroamerica

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    « Reply #8 on: February 22, 2014, 11:10:35 AM »
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  • Neil,

    Your comment was interesting, but at the end he is referring to Benedict and not Francis...,does that make sense now? Benedict said at his inaugural Mass "pray for me so that I may not flee for fear of the wolves." He is referring to Benedict (and his "resignation").
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...

    Offline Centroamerica

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    « Reply #9 on: February 22, 2014, 11:14:47 AM »
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  • Also "renounce" is probably as a result of translations....in spanish it is properly termed "renunciación" which also translates to resign so as the article was written in Italian and translated by someone else its safe to say that this one is not on Socci.
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    « Reply #10 on: February 22, 2014, 11:22:13 AM »
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  • .

    You're right, centroamerica, it is Benedict, not Francis.  

    Quote from: Centroamerica

    Neil,

    Your comment was interesting, but at the end he is referring to Benedict and not Francis...,does that make sense now? Benedict said at his inaugural Mass "pray for me so that I may not flee for fear of the wolves." He is referring to Benedict (and his "resignation").




    Somehow the two are blurring to indistinguishability with all the hoopla.  

    But are you saying that Benedict is somehow defending the treasures of the Church by doing what he is doing?  

    He is going by a title that is unprecedented, "Pope Emeritus."  Does that defend the treasures of the Church in a new way, by attacking them?

    He co-signs encyclicals of Francis.  Does that defend the treasures of the Church in a new way, by his unheard-of actions?  

    He said he would reside in Castel Gondolfo, but he in fact resides in St. Peter's Basilica / next door, that is.  Does that defend the treasures of the Church in a new way, by telling a FABLE and then LIVING A LIE?

    Maybe you can find some better examples for me.


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    Offline Ferdinand

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    Francis and BXVI
    « Reply #11 on: February 22, 2014, 11:24:15 AM »
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  • Ladies and Gentlemen...

    Your choice is Apostate or Apostate - Emeritus  :facepalm:

    Offline Centroamerica

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    « Reply #12 on: February 22, 2014, 11:49:52 AM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    .

    You're right, centroamerica, it is Benedict, not Francis.  

    Quote from: Centroamerica

    Neil,

    Your comment was interesting, but at the end he is referring to Benedict and not Francis...,does that make sense now? Benedict said at his inaugural Mass "pray for me so that I may not flee for fear of the wolves." He is referring to Benedict (and his "resignation").




    Somehow the two are blurring to indistinguishability with all the hoopla.  

    But are you saying that Benedict is somehow defending the treasures of the Church by doing what he is doing?  

    He is going by a title that is unprecedented, "Pope Emeritus."  Does that defend the treasures of the Church in a new way, by attacking them?

    He co-signs encyclicals of Francis.  Does that defend the treasures of the Church in a new way, by his unheard-of actions?  

    He said he would reside in Castel Gondolfo, but he in fact resides in St. Peter's Basilica / next door, that is.  Does that defend the treasures of the Church in a new way, by telling a FABLE and then LIVING A LIE?

    Maybe you can find some better examples for me.


    .


    At this point I'm not willing to say either one of them is a legitimate pontiff, much less guarding "treasures". I didn't see that this was in a thread, but I posted my opinion on a new thread.

    I find the "resignationists" thing interesting for 2 reasons: it is a posibility which can never be proved without Benedict's explicit voicing of it, and it can become a transition from r and r to sedevacantism for Fr. Kramer et al.

    Other than that, I refuse to acknowledge a man as pope who says there is no Catholic God while saying honestly, I don't who is Christ's vicar right now or if there is one.
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...

    Offline PG

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    « Reply #13 on: February 22, 2014, 02:32:19 PM »
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  • This is very interesting, but know, his decisions have been diabolical.  I have thought that this was a real possibility, but it hasn't disturbed me, he is a heretic.  It is a mistake to allow them even the slightest authority, and this is what happens when you do( "give an inch, they go a mile" ).  This what a "mile" away looks like.
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

     

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