Catholics don't attend mass depending on whether or not they like or approve of their priest.

Quote from: TinkerBell

I hope that those who are so critical of the SSPX priests and its leadership are not hypocrites who attend their Masses and receive their sacraments.  In other words, do you use the priests you so disdain as sacramental vending machines while anonymously trashing them in a public forum?  

Please explain yourself.

We started the trad community as an independent chapel and paid for the building and all of its contents, and built up the community, and even later paid for the SSPX priests in the seminary. Then we turned over EVERYTHING we owned in exchange for a priest flying in once a week.

If we are hypocrites, then the neo-SSPX are thieves. An inheritor that throws out his benefactor, is the lowest form of creature, not worthy to even be called a human being.

It does not matter. According to +Rostand, you assist at a Bishop Fellay church and receive sacraments from a Bishop Fellay priest.

+Fellay has the "grace of state" to redefine morality. He has so determined that if you are not on board for whatever changes he may introduce and you continue to assist at one of his churches, you are guilty of sin.

"Protestants" from the "Church of +Fellay"

Although, in fairness to Fr. Rostand, he did not point directly to those of us who have either left the Society or are highly critical of the that Fellay-run organization.  But all his talk about "Protestants" doesn't make it very difficult to make the connection between us and "Protestants."  Obviously, we are the ones whom he is talking about.  It is true, as the quote above indicates:  We are protestants (small case) from the "Church of +Fellay."  We were also "Protestants" while in the Society.  We were "Protestants," protesting the  2nd Vatican Council and the post-Conciliar church.  Now some of us are "Protestants," protesting both the neo-SSPX and the post-Conciliar church.  I think +Rostand better drop the word "Protestant" from his lexicon during future lectures.  Because, if he's stupid enough to have Q & As following such lectures in the future, there are enough of us out here who can probably have him for breakfast.  I think a number of us can make the case that he too is a "Protestant" by his own latent definition of the term.

Cronier, you show yourself to be an accordista. So much for being "neutral" on this issue. How ironic how Fr. Rostand keeps on talking about obedience, when he and +Fellay disobey Pope Benedict. Trusting our priests and bishops. The laity did that before, during, and after Vatican II. Look where that led us!

Right. The faithful cannot afford to follow leaders that show signs of deviating from Tradition, as Menzingen has done. Menzingen's impatience and intolerance toward sincere questions from the faithful demonstrates a lack of charity and indicates a guilty conscience.

No matter what crisis the Church finds herself in, no Catholic is at liberty to abandon the law of charity, ever.

You're right but just keep in mind though that Charity is based on Truth not on the compromise of it.

Bowler,

Providing for the material means of the church is one of the 5 precepts which are required of all Catholics   How much you provide is up to you.  But it is required of you as a Catholic, continously.  It's not a one off event.  As long as you are a Catholic you are duty bound to provide for the material needs of the Church.  The SSPX is part of the Church.  

Fr. Rostand spoke the truth in his sermon.  The Prostestant mentality is rampant throughout the world.  Traditional Catholics, being part of the world, are not exempt.  This spirit of "independence" is Modernist, it is American, it is Prostestant.  St. Benedict spoke of it in his rule.  However, by the replies on this thread, it would seem many here would claim St. Benedict was a "cult leader."  This rule is not just for monks.  Layman follow this rule as well, they are known as oblates.  Let me site a few chapters:

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Chapter 5 Obedience:
The first step of humility is unhesitating obedience, which comes naturally to those who cherish Christ above all. Because of the holy service they have professed, or because of dread of hell and for the glory of everlasting life, they carry out the superior's order as promptly as if the command came from God himself...Such people as these immediately put aside their own concerns, abandon their own will, and lay down whatever they have in hand, leaving it unfinished. With the ready step of obedience, they follow the voice of authority in their actions...It is love that impels them to pursue everlasting life; therefore, they are eager to take the narrow road of which the Lord says: Narrow is the road that leads to life (Matt 7:14). They no longer live by their own judgment, giving in to their whims and appetites; rather they walk according to another's decisions and directions, choosing to live in monasteries and to have an abbot over them. Men of this resolve unquestionably conform to the saying of the Lord: I have come not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me (John 6:38).
 
This very obedience, however, will be acceptable to God and agreeable to men only if compliance with what is commanded is not cringing or sluggish or half-hearted, but free from any grumbling or any reaction of unwillingness. For the obedience shown to superiors is given to God, as he himself said: Whoever listens to you, listens to me (Luke 10:16). Furthermore, the disciples' obedience must be given gladly, for God loves a cheerful giver (II Cor 9: 7). If a disciple obeys grudgingly and grumbles, not only aloud but also in his heart, then, even though he carries out the order, his action will not be accepted with favor by God, who sees that he is grumbling in his heart. He will have no reward for service of this kind; on the contrary, he will incur punishment for grumbling, unless he changes for the better and makes amends.

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Chapter 6 Restraint of Speech:
Let us follow the Prophet's counsel: I said, I have resolved to keep watch over my ways that I may never sin with my tongue. I was silent and was humbled, and I refrained even from good words (Ps 38[39]:2-3). Here the Prophet indicates that there are times when good words are to be left unsaid out of esteem for silence. For all the more reason, then, should evil speech be curbed so that punishment for sin may be avoided. Indeed, so important is silence that permission to speak should seldom be granted even to mature disciples, no matter how good or holy or constructive their talk, because it is written: In a flood of words you will not avoid sin (Prov 10:19); and elsewhere, The tongue holds the key to life and death (Prov 18:21). Speaking and teaching are the master's task; the disciple is to be silent and listen.
Therefore, any requests to a superior should be made with all humility and respectful submission. We absolutely condemn in all places any vulgarity and gossip and talk leading to laughter, and we do not permit a disciple to engage in words of that kind.

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Chapter 7 Humility
...
The first step of humility, then, is that a man keeps the fear of God always before his eyes (Ps 35[36]:2) and never forgets it. ... While he guards himself at every moment from sins and vices of thought or tongue, of hand or foot, of self-will or bodily desire, let him recall that he is always seen by God in heaven, that his actions everywhere are in God's sight and are reported by angels at every hour.
 
The Prophet indicates this to us when he shows that our thoughts are always present to God, saying: God searches hearts and minds (Ps 7:10); again he says: The Lord knows the thoughts of men (Ps 93[94]:11); likewise, From afar you know my thoughts (Ps 138[139]:3); and, The thought of man shall give you praise (Ps 75[76]:11). That he may take care to avoid sinful thoughts, the virtuous brother must always say to himself: I shall be blameless in his sight if I guard myself from my own wickedness (Ps 17[18]:24).
 
Truly, we are forbidden to do our own will, for Scripture tells us: Turn away from your desires (Sir 18:30). And in the Prayer too we ask God that his will be done done in us (Matt 6:10). We are rightly taught not to do our own will, since we dread what Scripture says: There are ways which men call right that in the end plunge into the depths of hell (Prov 16:25). Moreover, we fear what is said of those who ignore this: They are corrupt and have become depraved in their desires (Ps 13[14]:1).
...
Accordingly, if the eyes of the Lord are watching the good and the wicked (Prov 15:3), if at all times the Lord looks down from heaven on the sons of men to see whether any understand and seek God (Ps 13[14]:2); and if every day the angels assigned to us report our deeds to the Lord day and night, then, brothers, we must be vigilant every hour or, as the Prophet says in the psalm, God may observe us falling at some time into evil and so made worthless (Ps 13[14]:3). After sparing us for a while because he is a loving father who waits for us to improve, he may tell us later, This you did, and I said nothing (Ps 49[50]:21).

We should all keep these things and many more in mind but at the forefront of our minds we should say to ourselves, "Were I to die at this very moment would I die in the state of grace?"  If we harbor ill will toward anyone we most certainly are not in the state of grace.  How much more does this apply if we harbor anger, ill-will toward a priest and/or bishop?  Many traditional examinations of consciences list the deriding of a priest, religious, or bishop as a sin against the 4th commandant.  It is also most assuredly a sacrilege because these men are consecrated to God.  

Please, everyone, let us all keep death in mind so that we can keep from sinning, in word, thought or deed.  

It is easy to quote the Saints on obedience, prudence, humility, hope, etc. --the Neo-SSPX does a great job at it; what is not so easy is to quote any saint putting emphasis on these virtues over the Faith... that's the challenge.

On the other hand I could quote you what I've quoted before here:

"The declared enemies of God and of the Church should be defamed as much as possible, provided we don't lack the truth it is a charitable act to shout: 'Here's the wolf!' Whether he is in the flock or anywhere to be found." (St. Francis de Sales, Bishop and Doctor of the Church)

"If, however, through works they profaned the faith and don't hide themselves
covered with shame under the earth, why they get irritated against
us, who condemn with words that what they manifest with
actions? "(St. John Chrysostom)

"If the propagation and the necessity of combating evil require the employment of terms somewhat harsh against error and its supporters, this usage is certainly not against charity."

"In the writings of the great athletes of Christianity the usage of irony, imprecation, execration and of the most crushing epithets is continual."

"Popular propagation and apologetics cannot preserve elegant and constrained academic forms. In order to convince the people we must speak to their heart and their imagination which can only be touched by ardent , brilliant, and impassioned language. To be impassioned is not to be reprehensible, when our heat is the holy ardor of truth."

"It is all well enough to make war on abstract doctrines," some may say, "but in combating error, be it ever so evident, is it so proper to make an attack upon the persons of those who uphold it?" We reply that very often it is, and not only proper but at times even indispensable and meritorious before God and men."

"The accusation of indulging in personalities is not spared to Catholic apologists, and when Liberals and those tainted with Liberalism have hurled it at our heads they imagine that we are overwhelmed by the charge. But they deceive themselves. We are not so easily thrust in the back ground. We have reason and substantial reason on our side. In order to combat and discredit false ideas, we must inspire contempt and horror in the hearts of the multitude for those who seek to seduce and debauch them. A disease is inseparable from the persons of the diseased."

"(...) impartiality is not permissible when it is distorted to the offense of truth, whose rights are imprescriptible."

"Therefore to offend our neighbor for the love of God is a true act of charity. Not to offend our neighbor for the love of God is a sin."

"It is the archer and the gunner to whom we should give our first attention; save for them the fire would not be murderous."

"It is thus lawful, in certain cases, to expose the infamy of a Liberal opponent, to bring his habits into contempt, and drag his name in the mire. Yes, this is permissible, permissible in prose, in verse, in caricature, in a serious vein or in badinage, by every means and method within reach. The only restriction is not to employ a lie in the service of justice. This never."

"Whence do the Liberals derive their power to impose upon us the new obligation of fighting errors only in the abstract and of lavishing smiles and flattery upon them?" (Fr. Felix Sarda Y Salvany)


Let's not be carried away in thinking the saints were men walking with daisies over their ears succuмbing to all sorts of enemies of our Holy Catholic Faith in the name of a number of false virtues!

You should use those words against those pro-+Fellay supporters and +Fellay himself who regularly denigrate +Williamson ("like uranium," "has Alzheimer's disease," mentally not there, etc.) and the SSPX-resistance priests.

You should use those words against those pro-+Fellay supporters and +Fellay himself who regularly denigrate +Williamson ("like uranium," "has Alzheimer's disease," mentally not there, etc.) and the SSPX-resistance priests.

They will indeed have to answer for their words and their thoughts.  No doubt about it.  They are not exempt.