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Author Topic: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained  (Read 40570 times)

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Offline Fanny

Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
« Reply #55 on: November 16, 2017, 12:15:17 PM »
Yes, Matthew, but to what extent?
In my dealings with priests, I ask for lineage, confirm lineage, and evaluate.  I dont ask them for docuмentation proving that the ceremonies of his bishop up through the pre-vat II bishop occurred.

Now, I would assume a priest/prior would check the lineage docuмentation of a boshop for his seminarians.  Do the seminarians really have a choice of bishop?  No.  If fr. Chazal calls in Moran to ordain his seminarians, do the seminarians have a choice in the matter?  I guess they could leave, but they are supposed to trust father prior's judgement.

It seems to me that fr. Mbadugha answered the question when IH said that he obeyed the priest he was working under.  The lineage was provided.  If you are so inclined, one could, himself, contact b. Adamson and ask for proof.  But the rest of us should, as fr. M did, assume that fr. M's superior did his homework and verified the lineage via docuмentation.

Also, it was said that fr. M tried several times to leave OLMC.  Why he wanted to leave and why he stayed you will have to ask him.  Why he went to OLMC in the first place, you will have to ask him.  

Perhaps rather than jumping to conclusions and causing detraction and/or scandal you should ask Fr. M your questions
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Offline SeanJohnson

Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
« Reply #56 on: November 16, 2017, 12:22:42 PM »
Quote from: Fanny on November 16, 2017, 12:15:17 PM
Yes, Matthew, but to what extent?
In my dealings with priests, I ask for lineage, confirm lineage, and evaluate.  I dont ask them for docuмentation proving that the ceremonies of his bishop up through the pre-vat II bishop occurred.

Now, I would assume a priest/prior would check the lineage docuмentation of a boshop for his seminarians.  Do the seminarians really have a choice of bishop?  No.  If fr. Chazal calls in Moran to ordain his seminarians, do the seminarians have a choice in the matter?  I guess they could leave, but they are supposed to trust father prior's judgement.

It seems to me that fr. Mbadugha answered the question when IH said that he obeyed the priest he was working under.  The lineage was provided.  If you are so inclined, one could, himself, contact b. Adamson and ask for proof.  But the rest of us should, as fr. M did, assume that fr. M's superior did his homework and verified the lineage via docuмentation.

Also, it was said that fr. M tried several times to leave OLMC.  Why he wanted to leave and why he stayed you will have to ask him.  Why he went to OLMC in the first place, you will have to ask him.  

Perhaps rather than jumping to conclusions and causing detraction and/or scandal you should ask Fr. M your questions
Disagree:

Until such time as this priest can demonstrate the validity of his ordination (and Bishop Adamson's consecration), they will forever remain questionable and uncertain.

Truth be told, I expect that if he COULD demonstrate validity, he would have done so by now, given all the attention the matter is being given.
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Offline happenby

Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
« Reply #57 on: November 16, 2017, 12:39:16 PM »
Until anyone here has inquired answers of the new priest, most of what is said here remains speculation. While there is serious doubt about the bishop because he is a sedevacantist, there very will could be more to know before drawing conclusions.
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Offline SeanJohnson

Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
« Reply #58 on: November 16, 2017, 12:49:41 PM »
Quote from: Tradplorable on November 16, 2017, 12:45:27 PM
I agree. Calling him "nithe" (thereby implying Fr. Francis is effeminate) is scandalous, especially since you've never even met him.
It actually is not very "nice."
I have not seen anyone on this thread declare Francis' ordination certainly invalid, and consequently nobody is actually jumping to any conclusions.

Quite the opposite:

All are (or should be) in a state of suspended judgment until such time as Francis can (or cannot) demonstrate the validity of his ordination (and all that entails).

Meanwhile, nobody with any common sense would frequent such a man for sacraments before that question is answered.
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Offline Matthew

  • Mod
Re: Ex-OLMC seminarian ordained
« Reply #59 on: November 16, 2017, 12:59:48 PM »
Nice thinly-veiled personal attack against several CI members (and especially the moderator, who allows this thread), but no thanks.

The fact is that it is physically impossible to "detract" a priest about this particular matter: the question of his validity.

The validity of a priest is a PUBLIC matter, according to the Catholic Church. It is not:

* a private matter
* none of most people's business
* something we should not speculate about
* something we should give "benefit of the doubt" on
* something we should presume, until proven otherwise
* possible matter for detraction
* possible matter for slander (now we're *lying* about him, just by asking for proof of his ordination!?)

And we haven't declared his ordination invalid. Merely stated the FACT that he has no sufficiently proven or provided the validity of his ordaining bishop.

"Thuc-line bishop" is not, and CANNOT BE, an instant ticket to validity. Even the most die-hard sedevacantist has to agree with that. One might as well say, "Independent priest? he's surely valid then!"
There is simply too much variety in that category.
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