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Author Topic: Eleison Comments - Some Answers (no. 905)  (Read 7747 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Eleison Comments - Some Answers (no. 905)
« on: November 16, 2024, 02:17:16 PM »
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  • November 16th, 2024EC No. CMV (905)
    SOME ANSWERS
    The chaos of today is serving to purge
    Mankind. Bad men will undergo the scourge.
    60 years ago this writer was given by God a real sense of civilisation disintegrating. From there it was merely a matter of time (and grace) before the pursuit of Truth led him to the Catholic Church. The same pursuit of Truth led him at the end of 1972 to Archbishop Lefebvre and to his Seminary in Econe, Switzerland. At the same time he entered the Society of St Pius X which had been founded as a framework of the Church to surround and support the priests that the Archbishop would soon be ordaining. He foresaw difficulties with the official Church in a few years’ time. He was right.
    If he was right, how could he envisage defying the official Church? Because the Faith is greater than obedience. Alas, even the successors of Archbishop Lefebvre at the head of the Society that he founded, failed, like the churchmen of Vatican II, to have his grasp of the necessity to “disobey” when the Faith is at stake. Better to obey God than men, says St Peter (Acts IV, 19). The drama of our poor age is that the mass of men have lost their grip on objective truth. As man is taken to be above God, so the subject is supposedly above the object (Emmanuel Kant). This error “liberates” from any objective truth or faith.
    What about the Priestly Union of Marcel Lefebvre? It became defunct and was dissolved soon after its founding in 2013, because of serious dissension among its first members. Since then the so-called “Resistance” has not been structured in any way. It is merely a loose association of priests who all over the world see the crisis of the Church in the same way, namely that neither the Newchurch of Vatican II, nor the “sedevacantists” against Vatican II (at least the dogmatic ones), nor the Newsociety following a different orientation from that of its Founder, Archbishop Lefebvre, have the right answer to the Church’s crisis. However, only the true Church’s proper Authority can impose what is God’s own answer, so the loose association of resistant priests waits for Almighty God to restore His stricken Papacy. Meanwhile, “The Shepherd is struck and the sheep are scattered.” Because this “Resistance” is not structured or even organised, it is difficult to tell just how many priests might claim that they belong to it.
    As for the Newchurch, “renewed” by Vatican II in the 1960’s, it is surely much further down the path of total destruction than it was in the 1970’s or 80’s. The downhill slide is inexorable, until the churchmen abandon these disastrous principles of the French Revolution and of the modern world which were designed from the beginning by ʝʊdɛօ-masonry to do away with God, with Jesus Christ and with His Catholic Church. It looks very much as though only a severe Chastisement from God will bring the Conciliar churchmen to their Catholic senses. Alas, numbers of churchmen still refuse to understand that the Faith is greater than obedience, because Catholic obedience is only for the Faith. Authority exists in the Church only to protect the Truth from human beings, who all suffer from original sin. “Obedience is not the servant of obedience” – Spanish proverb. Obedience is the servant of Truth, and not its master.
    True Catholic obedience presupposes a truly Catholic Pope at the top of the pyramid of the Church’s hierarchy. For such a Pope, God wants us to wait and to pray. We will have him, in God’s good time. If Catholics do see at last the need to return to Tradition, it is understandable if they wish to go further back than the liturgical reform of 1962, but it is not essential. Patience. The liturgy will be properly restored.
    Catholics who in the 2020’s realise that they risk losing the Faith if they obey their Conciliar clergy need to do two things. Firstly, pray every day all 15 Mysteries of the Holy Rosary, and not just five. Secondly, to make sure of saving their souls for eternity, they need to find out all about the Five First Saturdays of Our Lady of Fatima, and do them. She will then look after them and protect them from the world, the flesh and the Devil, as only She can. And they will help towards the Consecration of Russia, essential for the restoration of the Catholic Church.
    Kyrie eleison.

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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Some Answers (no. 905)
    « Reply #1 on: November 16, 2024, 04:06:42 PM »
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  • What about the Priestly Union of Marcel Lefebvre? It became defunct and was dissolved soon after its founding in 2013, because of serious dissension among its first members. 

    What is this Priestly Union to which he refers?  I'm not familiar with it.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Some Answers (no. 905)
    « Reply #2 on: November 16, 2024, 04:08:09 PM »
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  • neither the Newchurch of Vatican II, nor the “sedevacantists” against Vatican II (at least the dogmatic ones), nor the Newsociety following a different orientation from that of its Founder, Archbishop Lefebvre, have the right answer to the Church’s crisis

    Grammatical analysis of this sentence indicates that he believes that the non-dogmatic SVs MIGHT "have the right answer to the Church's crisis".

    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Some Answers (no. 905)
    « Reply #3 on: November 16, 2024, 11:15:17 PM »
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  • What is this Priestly Union to which he refers?  I'm not familiar with it.
    USML: Union Sacerdotale Marcel Lefebvre. It was an initiative of the then Fr Faure and Fr Olivier Rioult if my memory serves correctly. Fr Rioult (whose website is lasapiniere.info) and his friend Fr Pinaud soon became sedevacantist which I think may have been a large part of the problem. The SAJM soon came as a replacement after the consecration of Fr Faure for those who wanted to continue in the line of Archbishop Lefebvre.

    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Some Answers (no. 905)
    « Reply #5 on: November 16, 2024, 11:55:03 PM »
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  • What is this Priestly Union to which he refers?  I'm not familiar with it.
    From lasapiniere.info: https://www.lasapiniere.info/archives/2775

    Last press release issued by the USML
    by Abbé Olivier Rioult - Jul 8, 2017 - Abbé Rioult

    Created in 2014, the Priestly Union Marcel Lefebvre (USML) brought together priests who denounced the subversion undertaken by the leaders of the Priestly Fraternity of St. Pius X.
    The three founding principles between the members of this union were:
    (a) priestly friendship without hierarchical structure
    (b) The fight against apostate Rome
    (c) The rejection of any dogmatic sectarianism.

    In recent months, several members, no longer assuming the requirements of the founding principles, have preferred to withdraw from the USML.
    The last three members, gathered as planned, see these defections as an indication of Providence that it is no longer appropriate to maintain the existence of USML.
    Indeed, the absence of legitimate authority and the lowering of characters all too often prevent the practice of the virtues necessary for the existence of a structure, however light it may be.
    As Archbishop Lefebvre said: “From John XXIII, it can be said that we are no longer in a normal time of the Church” (cospec 111b, 1984). What to do?
    Father Calmel very well defined the attitude that priests as well as laymen had to adopt in these abnormal times:
    “The way, I believe, can enable the Christian struggle to reach its full scale by escaping internal conflicts and external rivalries is to lead it through small units, which know each other as they can, who are helping each other on occasion, but who refuse to enter into some systematic and universal organisations. In these various units, such as a modest school, a humble convent, a brotherhood of piety, a small grouping between Christian families, a pilgrimage organization, the authority is real and undisputed; the problem of the chief does not arise; the work to be done is precise. It is only a question of going to the end of one's grace and authority in the small sphere, of which one is certainly responsible, by keeping connected, without large administrative machines, to those who do the same. (Itineraries, Authority and Holiness in the Church, No. 149 – January 1971)
    The experience of recent years shows us that the intuition of Father Calmel must not remain a view of the mind but must be accepted in its practical consequences.
    For our part, we will therefore continue our Ministry in accordance with these same principles in collaboration with colleagues of good will.
    Angers, 6 July 2017
    Fr Nicolas Pinaud
    Fr Olivier Rioult
    Fr Pierre Roy

    It has been well docuмented on this site that Fr Pierre Roy is now as sedevacantist bishop.

    Offline rosarytrad

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Some Answers (no. 905)
    « Reply #6 on: November 18, 2024, 05:55:01 PM »
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  • Grammatical analysis of this sentence indicates that he believes that the non-dogmatic SVs MIGHT "have the right answer to the Church's crisis".
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Some Answers (no. 905)
    « Reply #7 on: November 18, 2024, 07:27:43 PM »
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  • USML: Union Sacerdotale Marcel Lefebvre. It was an initiative of the then Fr Faure and Fr Olivier Rioult if my memory serves correctly. Fr Rioult (whose website is lasapiniere.info) and his friend Fr Pinaud soon became sedevacantist which I think may have been a large part of the problem. The SAJM soon came as a replacement after the consecration of Fr Faure for those who wanted to continue in the line of Archbishop Lefebvre.

    Interesting.  Thank you 


    Offline trento

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Some Answers (no. 905)
    « Reply #8 on: November 19, 2024, 01:19:07 AM »
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  • From lasapiniere.info: https://www.lasapiniere.info/archives/2775

    Last press release issued by the USML
    by Abbé Olivier Rioult - Jul 8, 2017 - Abbé Rioult

    Created in 2014, the Priestly Union Marcel Lefebvre (USML) brought together priests who denounced the subversion undertaken by the leaders of the Priestly Fraternity of St. Pius X.
    The three founding principles between the members of this union were:
    (a) priestly friendship without hierarchical structure
    (b) The fight against apostate Rome
    (c) The rejection of any dogmatic sectarianism.

    In recent months, several members, no longer assuming the requirements of the founding principles, have preferred to withdraw from the USML.
    The last three members, gathered as planned, see these defections as an indication of Providence that it is no longer appropriate to maintain the existence of USML.
    Indeed, the absence of legitimate authority and the lowering of characters all too often prevent the practice of the virtues necessary for the existence of a structure, however light it may be.
    As Archbishop Lefebvre said: “From John XXIII, it can be said that we are no longer in a normal time of the Church” (cospec 111b, 1984). What to do?
    Father Calmel very well defined the attitude that priests as well as laymen had to adopt in these abnormal times:
    “The way, I believe, can enable the Christian struggle to reach its full scale by escaping internal conflicts and external rivalries is to lead it through small units, which know each other as they can, who are helping each other on occasion, but who refuse to enter into some systematic and universal organisations. In these various units, such as a modest school, a humble convent, a brotherhood of piety, a small grouping between Christian families, a pilgrimage organization, the authority is real and undisputed; the problem of the chief does not arise; the work to be done is precise. It is only a question of going to the end of one's grace and authority in the small sphere, of which one is certainly responsible, by keeping connected, without large administrative machines, to those who do the same. (Itineraries, Authority and Holiness in the Church, No. 149 – January 1971)
    The experience of recent years shows us that the intuition of Father Calmel must not remain a view of the mind but must be accepted in its practical consequences.
    For our part, we will therefore continue our Ministry in accordance with these same principles in collaboration with colleagues of good will.
    Angers, 6 July 2017
    Fr Nicolas Pinaud
    Fr Olivier Rioult
    Fr Pierre Roy

    It has been well docuмented on this site that Fr Pierre Roy is now as sedevacantist bishop.
    Rejection of any hierarchical structure is doomed for failure. The Church in her overall structure was founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ to be hierarchical.

    What does rejection of dogmatic sectarianism means? Both Sanborn and Dolan were in communion at first, but now they are not due to the topic of the thesis and several other matters. Again doomed for failure and is nothing but jostling for authority. This is ultimately proven when Fr. Roy got himself consecrated a sedevacantist bishop.

    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Some Answers (no. 905)
    « Reply #9 on: November 19, 2024, 06:36:59 AM »
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  • Again doomed for failure and is nothing but jostling for authority. This is ultimately proven when Fr. Roy got himself consecrated a sedevacantist bishop.

    None of the bishops in 'tradition' claim authority.  They only confirm and ordain, etc.  I listened to a +Sanborn sermon this weekend and he said exactly that.

    Offline trento

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Some Answers (no. 905)
    « Reply #10 on: November 20, 2024, 04:39:21 AM »
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  • None of the bishops in 'tradition' claim authority.  They only confirm and ordain, etc.  I listened to a +Sanborn sermon this weekend and he said exactly that.
    The bishops of the SSPX are under the authority of the Superior General of the SSPX. The RCI's authority is +Sanborn himself.


    Offline AMDGJMJ

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Some Answers (no. 905)
    « Reply #11 on: November 20, 2024, 05:00:00 AM »
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  • From lasapiniere.info: https://www.lasapiniere.info/archives/2775

    Last press release issued by the USML
    by Abbé Olivier Rioult - Jul 8, 2017 - Abbé Rioult

    Created in 2014, the Priestly Union Marcel Lefebvre (USML) brought together priests who denounced the subversion undertaken by the leaders of the Priestly Fraternity of St. Pius X.
    The three founding principles between the members of this union were:
    (a) priestly friendship without hierarchical structure
    (b) The fight against apostate Rome
    (c) The rejection of any dogmatic sectarianism.

    In recent months, several members, no longer assuming the requirements of the founding principles, have preferred to withdraw from the USML.
    The last three members, gathered as planned, see these defections as an indication of Providence that it is no longer appropriate to maintain the existence of USML.
    Indeed, the absence of legitimate authority and the lowering of characters all too often prevent the practice of the virtues necessary for the existence of a structure, however light it may be.
    As Archbishop Lefebvre said: “From John XXIII, it can be said that we are no longer in a normal time of the Church” (cospec 111b, 1984). What to do?
    Father Calmel very well defined the attitude that priests as well as laymen had to adopt in these abnormal times:
    “The way, I believe, can enable the Christian struggle to reach its full scale by escaping internal conflicts and external rivalries is to lead it through small units, which know each other as they can, who are helping each other on occasion, but who refuse to enter into some systematic and universal organisations. In these various units, such as a modest school, a humble convent, a brotherhood of piety, a small grouping between Christian families, a pilgrimage organization, the authority is real and undisputed; the problem of the chief does not arise; the work to be done is precise. It is only a question of going to the end of one's grace and authority in the small sphere, of which one is certainly responsible, by keeping connected, without large administrative machines, to those who do the same. (Itineraries, Authority and Holiness in the Church, No. 149 – January 1971)
    The experience of recent years shows us that the intuition of Father Calmel must not remain a view of the mind but must be accepted in its practical consequences.
    For our part, we will therefore continue our Ministry in accordance with these same principles in collaboration with colleagues of good will.
    Angers, 6 July 2017
    Fr Nicolas Pinaud
    Fr Olivier Rioult
    Fr Pierre Roy

    It has been well docuмented on this site that Fr Pierre Roy is now as sedevacantist bishop.
    How interesting.   Thank you for sharing.
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    Offline AMDGJMJ

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Some Answers (no. 905)
    « Reply #12 on: November 20, 2024, 05:01:17 AM »
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  • Rejection of any hierarchical structure is doomed for failure. The Church in her overall structure was founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ to be hierarchical.

    What does rejection of dogmatic sectarianism means? Both Sanborn and Dolan were in communion at first, but now they are not due to the topic of the thesis and several other matters. Again doomed for failure and is nothing but jostling for authority. This is ultimately proven when Fr. Roy got himself consecrated a sedevacantist bishop.
    I have heard that Bishop Pierre Roy is a more balanced sedevacantist and not as dogmatic and have only heard good things about him.  What is it about him that you object to?
    "Jesus, Meek and Humble of Heart, make my heart like unto Thine!"

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    Offline JonandDebbie

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    Re: Eleison Comments - Some Answers (no. 905)
    « Reply #13 on: November 22, 2024, 02:12:44 PM »
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  • In this thread about authority, obedience and sedevacantism, one must keep in mind what the Deharbe's Catechism teaches are the Commandments of the Church. They are five in number, the fourth being: "To confess at least once a year to a duly authorized priest".
    Yet Traditional priests will tell you that they need no authorization. They can break this law of the Catholic Church because "the salvation of souls is the first law". 

    When the simple laity asks/demands that Traditional clergy get in the same room and choose a pope so that they can be duly authorized. They say (among many things) that they cannot do that because it is against the law. 

    Which law is more important? Which will save more souls? 

    We should continue to demand the clergy to be duly authorized.