Pilar:  

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But after listening to Fr. Robinson's talk on Valtorta's works, I am certainly going to read them! I have heard that Padre Pio recommended them and it may be. But hearing that Fr. Barrielle recommended them so highly is enough for me. I know enough about him to know that anything he recommended is good.

Good, Pilar.  Maria Valtorta is wonderful!  Her writings are wonderful!  Her insights are wonderful!  The Poem is an exquisite work.  I recommend it highly to all Cathinfo members, (except, of course, those few who may get a "headache" from reading her.)

You'd be well-advised to do the exact opposite of what nothingsworth tells you to do.  Honestly, nothingsworth needs to be banned for his shamelessly avid promotion of a work that had been consigned to the Index.

Criticism[edit]
According to Father Mitch Pacwa, S.J., "the long speeches of Jesus and Mary starkly contrast with the evangelists, who portray Jesus as 'humble, reserved; His discourses are lean, incisive.' Valtorta's fictionalized history makes Jesus sound 'like a chatterbox, always ready to proclaim Himself the Messiah and the Son of God,' or teach theology in modern terms. The Blessed Mother speaks like a 'propagandist' for modern Marian theology." In addition, Pacwa writes that the poem has "'many historical, geographical and other blunders.' For instance, Jesus uses screwdrivers (Vol. 1, pp. 195, 223), centuries before screws existed."[40]

Avis:

It is best to scroll down in the left hand column and click on the section entitled 'A Summa and Encyclopedia to Maria Valtorta’s Extraordinary Work'. That will download a large docuмent by Stephen Austin which will answer every criticism of the Poem. And you critics, I dare you to do the same.

Well finally!  Someone comes along with a bit of assistance.  I want ladislaus and the other Cathinfo pharisees to go immediately to the site and download that docuмent from Stephen Austin.  Read it, and stop calling His Excellency a promoter of "filth" and guilty of "mortal sin."  Remember, the original pharisees, whose spirit some have you have imbibed. They said Jesus had a devil. :read-paper:

Quote from: hollingsworth

Pilar:  

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But after listening to Fr. Robinson's talk on Valtorta's works, I am certainly going to read them! I have heard that Padre Pio recommended them and it may be. But hearing that Fr. Barrielle recommended them so highly is enough for me. I know enough about him to know that anything he recommended is good.

Good, Pilar.  Maria Valtorta is wonderful!  Her writings are wonderful!  Her insights are wonderful!  The Poem is an exquisite work.  I recommend it highly to all Cathinfo members, (except, of course, those few who may get a "headache" from reading her.)

You'd be well-advised to do the exact opposite of what nothingsworth tells you to do.  Honestly, nothingsworth needs to be banned for his shamelessly avid promotion of a work that had been consigned to the Index.

Dear Ladislaus and all who have warned me, with sincerity and without sarcasm, please do not worry, I have given the "Poems" and some other of Valtorta's writings a cursory exam and that is all the time I will give them. I find things that are troubling.

She roundly condemns Anna Catherine Emmerich's visions as fantasy, but I think it is her writings that are fantasy. I can't understand why Fr. Barrielle would promote them or why +Williamson does either?

God forgive me if it is genuine, but I am not required to believe it, and I don't.

Thank you to all for your kind advice.

Pilar, do not put God to the test. As PerEvangelicaDicta said wisely on the thread mentioned below:

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There's much too much diabolical disorientation in these evil times to be entertaining controversial private revelations. That's a no brainer.  Rome can hardly weigh in to assist us w/ nihil obstat and grant imprimaturs.  So, as in all things related to our Faith, be safe with tradition to minimize satanic influence.  

There are too many good books written by saints and scholars to even think about immersing yourself in the muck that is Valtorta's writing. Fallible priests have led people astray before this,  and in these confused days they still do, some wittingly, some unwittingly.

Valtorta has been discussed here ad nauseam. Have you read the other thread on Valtorta? You can find it here: http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=36278&min=0&num=5

This article from Tradition in action sums it up pretty well:

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From Tradition in Action: Valtorta's Poem of the Man-God

Valtorta’s Poem of the Man-God

Marian T. Horvat, Ph.D.
Book review of Peom of the Man-God by Maria Valtorta,    10 volumes, online edition


A friend recently sent me an e-mail asking about Maria Valtorta and her Poem of the Man-God. She received a recent issue of Kyrie Eleison comments of Bishop Richard Williamson titled “Home Reading” (October 20, 2012). In it, he recommends parents read selected chapters of the Poem of the Man-God to children every night.

He admits the Poem is controversial and has many enemies, but he defends Valtorta’s massive tome (4,000 pages in 10 volumes of supposed visions she received of the life of Christ). The Bishop supports it, despite the objections he lists: that it is riddled with doctrinal errors, that it humanizes Our Lord Jesus Christ, and that the work was placed on the Church’s Index of Forbidden Books in the 1950s.

He lightly dismisses all the arguments against it and concludes children will learn much about Our Lord and Our Lady from the Poem, which “will fortify a home.”

“I have not read this book,” my friend continues, “but, for Heaven’s sake, why didn’t Bishop W. recommend reading the wonderful, approved, written-by-a-canonized saint 4-volume City of God by Mother Mary of Agreda? But that is beside the point. I really do wish to know if you approve of the Poem of the Man-God. Even the title upsets my Catholic sensibilities.”

A humanized Christ

I believe my friend should follow her good Catholic sense. The very title, the Man-God , expresses the spirit of the work. It is Jesus as a man that Valtorta presents: a babe suckling greedily at his Mother’s breasts, a youth hardly aware of Who He is, a Man who laughs and jokes with His Apostles and is constantly kissing them on the mouth and embracing them closely. Yes, at the least, it is difficult not to suspect this showy Jesus pictured in such way as having ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ tendencies.

Valtorta’s natural approach is supposed to attract the modern man to the Life of Christ. It is in tune with the progressivist doctrine that tries to deny the supernatural and instead presents Our Lady as a simple Jєωιѕн woman and focuses on Our Lord as being a man “like us.” As Atila Guimaraes points out in Animus Injuriandi I, the progressivist Church aims to de-mythify and de-supernaturalize Christ and His Mother under the guise of presenting a natural “historical” Christ and Mary.” I believe Valtorta’s Jesus and Mary fit this mold.


http://www.traditioninaction.org/bkreviews/ImagesA/A_042_Jesus.jpg
An illustration of Valtorta's Jesus, a somewhat occult figure with a magnetic gaze

Valtorta’s Man-God depiction is the opposite of the God-Man portrayed by Anne Catherine Emmerich and Ven. Mary of Agreda, whose life of Christ is presented from an elevated, supernatural vantage point. One cannot help but wonder why the traditionalist Bishop would not recommend these works, instead of the Valtorta tomes, which were officially condemned by the Holy Office and placed on the Index in December 1959 and defined by L’Osservatore Romano of January 6,1960 as “a badly fictionalized life of Jesus.”

After Vatican II, Paul VI abolished the Index of Forbidden Books, and Valtorta’s supporters claim this nullifies the suppression of 1959. Unfortunately, the official position of the Church today is less than clear, with important Prelates and Catholic figures on both sides of the issue. Obviously, the progressivists, almost to the man, defend it.

The Poem of the Man-God, I believe, is riddled with banalities, vulgarities, blasphemies and even doctrinal errors. There are endless idle conversations between Our Lord, Our Lady and the Apostles, all on a natural level. I think the best way to confirm these points is simply to cite some texts, which are so revolting that they speak for themselves.

The quotes that follow are taken from an online edition of The Poem of the Man-God. A 48-page critique written in the 1980s – when the Poem’s popularity surged for a period, as it seems to be resurging now – by a Salesian, Brother James, S.D.B., can be read in its entirety here.

An Infant conceived with original sin

Valtorta portrays the Christ Child as a greedy infant of a sentimental Mother. It is difficult to find the respect we owe to Our Lord Jesus Christ in this imaginary immodest description of a nursing scene:


http://www.traditioninaction.org/bkreviews/ImagesA/A_042_Mary.jpg
The Man-God presents a naturalistic view of Our Lady and the Christ Child

“Jesus opens His eyes, sees His Mother and smiles and stretches His little hands toward Her breast.

“[Mary] ‘Yes, love of Your Mummy. Yes. Your milk. Before the usual time. But You are always ready to suck Your Mummy's breast, My little holy Lamb!’

“Jesus laughs and plays, kicking His feet out of the blankets, moving His arms happily in a typical childish style, so beautiful to see. He pushes His feet against His Mummy's stomach. He arches His back leaning His fair head on Her breast, and then throws Himself back and laughs, holding with His hands the laces that tie Mary's dress to Her neck, endeavoring to open it. …

“Mary nurses Him and Jesus avidly sucks His Mother's good milk, and when He feels that only a little is coming from Her right breast, He looks for the left one, laughing while doing so and looking up at His Mother. Then He falls asleep again on Her breast, His rosy round little cheek resting against Her white round breast.” (Vol 1, n. 35, p. 106).

An Adult with ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ tendencies

Valtorta’s Jesus suspiciously displays ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ tendencies since he is constantly kissing and embracing the Apostles. When Jesus tells James of His approaching Passion, James reacts with great emotion. Jesus comforts him thus:

“’Come, I will kiss you thus, to help you forget the burden of My fate as Man. Here, I kiss your lips that will have to repeat My words to the people of Israel and your heart that will have to love as I told you, and there, on your temple, where life will cease.’ … They remain embraced for a long time and James seems to doze off in the joy of God's kisses that make him forget his suffering.”


http://www.traditioninaction.org/bkreviews/ImagesA/A_042_Allegra.jpg
Recently beatified Gabriel Allegra, a Teilhard de Chardin colleague, was a promoter of the Man-God Poem [Chardin was a condemned heretic naturalistic Pantheist and practitioner of witchcraft]

When Valtorta describes the “favorite” Apostle John as having the face of a young girl with the “gaze of a lover,” we can hardly avoid having the impression that they have a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ relationship. Here Jesus is kissing John to awaken him:

“Jesus bends and kisses the cheek of John, who opens his eyes and is dumbfounded at seeing Jesus. He sits up and says, ‘Do you need me? Here I am.’ …

“John, half naked in his under-tunic, because he used his tunic and mantle as bed covers, clasps Jesus’ neck and lays his head between Jesus’ shoulder and cheek.”

After John professes his belief and love in Jesus as Son of God, “he smiles and weeps, panting, inflamed by his love, relaxing on Jesus’ chest, as if he were exhausted by his ardor. And Jesus caresses him, burning with love Himself.”

John begs Jesus not to tell the others of what has passed between them. Jesus replies, “Do not worry, John. No one will be aware of your wedding with the Love. Get dressed, come. We must leave.” (Vol. 2, n. 165, pp. 57-58)

Jesus suggests a love-affair between St. Peter and Our Lady

Jesus even jokes with impropriety with his apostles. Here, Jesus stands up and calls out loudly and angrily to Peter:

“‘Come here, you usurper and corrupter!’
“‘Me? Why? What have I done, Lord?’
“‘You have corrupted My Mother. That is why you wanted to be alone. What shall I do with you?’
“Jesus smiles and Peter recovers his confidence. ‘You really frightened me! Now You are laughing.” (Vol. II, n. 199, p. 185)

Like Luther, Mary thinks: Let us sin to be forgiven

Some passages are tantamount to heresy. For example, Valtorta presents the child Mary as expressing her desire to be a big sinner in order to merit the grace of Redemption:

“[Mary]: ‘Tell Me, mummy, can one be a sinner out of love of God?
“[Anne]: ‘What are you saying, my dear? I don't understand you.’
“[Mary]:’I mean: to commit a sin in order to be loved by God, Who becomes the Savior. Who is lost, is saved. Isn’t that so? I would like to be saved by the Savior to receive His loving look." (Vol. 1, n. 7, p. 23).

A sensual Eve tending toward bestiality

The work is also not without doctrinal errors, such as when Valtorta asserts the sin of Eve was not disobedience, but a sɛҳuąƖ act. There is also an insinuation of a tendency toward bestiality in Eve. This erotic description was supposedly made by Jesus:

“With his venomous tongue Satan blandished and caressed Eve’s limbs and eyes… Her flesh was aroused … The sensation is a sweet one for her. And ‘she understood.’ Now Malice was inside her and was gnawing at her intestines. She saw with new eyes and heard with new ears the habits and voices of beasts. And she craved for them with insane greed. “She began the sin by herself. She accomplished it with her companion.” (Vol. 1, n. 17, p. 49)

These are some excerpts I offer to my readers to evaluate Valtorta’s work. I believe they are sufficient for the reader to make a judgment of the whole.

It is thus understandable that the Holy Office placed the work on the Index of Forbidden Books, which is reproduced below. It is also understandable that the Salesian Brother James concluded his critique of the first two volumes with these words: “Poem of the Man-God is so demonic that without a special grace from Our Lord Jesus, we could be deceived by the seemingly harmless statements by Valtorta’s Jesus, but they enclose lies and heresy, contrary to the teachings of One, Holy Catholic Church.”


*

http://www.traditioninaction.org/bkreviews/ImagesA/A_042_Decree.jpg
Supreme Congregation of
the Holy Office

Decree
Proscription of Books
Wednesday, December 16, 1959

The Most Eminent and Reverend Cardinals of the Supreme Congregation of the Holy Office, to whom the safeguarding of things of the Faith and Moral is confided, after receiving the previous opinions of the Consultors, have unanimously condemned and ordered that the books by an anonymous author, in four volumes, be inscribed in the Index of Forbidden Books, the first of those books being:

Il Poema di Gesù [The Poem of Jesus] (Tipografia Editrice M. Pisani);

followed by,

Il Poema dell'Uomo-Dio [The Poem of the Man-God], (Ibidem).

On Friday of that same month and year, the Most Holy and Dignified Lord John XXIII, Pope by the grace of  Divine Providence, in an audience given to the Most Eminent and Reverend Cardinal Secretary of the Holy Office, after hearing the report of the Most Reverend Fathers, approved this resolution and commanded that it be published.

Given in Rome, in the seat of the
Holy Office on January 5, 1960.
Sebastian Masala, Notary

If the above passages are true and correct, as represented by the author, then it is clear to see why this work is on  the index. Even without the Index's proscription, an objective perusal of said passages must bring one to the conclusion that this is not appropriate reading and speculation about the King and His Mother.  Oh, too easily can one arrive at what Marion Horvat observes in these pages.  Shame upon anyone who would promote this work to untrained layman and their children .

If anyone can refute the accuracy of her representation of said passages, please do so, for otherwise it would be folly to read them, or the work that contains them.

Why are people still criticising the Poem with out referring to Stephen Austin's excellent piece of work. He easily destroys Horvath's nonsense and all other objections. What are you scared of?

In case you missed it. This is what I said before -

Read this website Valtorta site

It is best to scroll down in the left hand column and click on the section entitled 'A Summa and Encyclopedia to Maria Valtorta’s Extraordinary Work'. That will download a large docuмent by Stephen Austin which will answer every criticism of the Poem. And you critics, I dare you to do this.

Well, looking in on that excellent work I came across this gem:

" WHAT ABOUT NON-CATHOLICS AND NON-CHRISTIANS?

(The Holy Spirit says:)

"Here is the promise. And here is the reply to whoever believes that only a Catholic can save himself...

"God has every power. God has every mercy. And His joy is to communicate Himself to the spirits who yearn for the unknown God (See Acts 17:23-31) - whom they feel exists without knowing how, who, where He is, nor how to go to Him...

"Many. Many. Yes. Because God justifies the uncircuм­cised by means of faith, and the circuмcised by means of faith. And truly, many times the uncircuмcised - out of the mysterious faith that inspires them (a divine gift to these with good will), without knowing the works prescribed by the Law - work better than those who know them, by show­ing thus that faith is even more valuable than the Law in saving man. Because where there is faith in an unknown God, Who loves and rewards for the good done in His hon­our, there is hope and there is love. And where there is love, there is salvation. Because truly, at the end of time, those who were not baptized with water will be baptized with Fire, that is, with the Love given as a reward for their love."

A salvific ingnorance promoter and an eens denier in one package, and without referencing the poem. One can see why she has appeal to the sentimental among us.

But, I digress. So you are saying that this Austin fellow proves that Marion Horvat has not reproduced the passages as they are in the poem?

Why are people still criticising the Poem with out referring to Stephen Austin's excellent piece of work.

Because the so-called poem was forbidden by the Holy Office.

Because the so-called poem was promoted by then Fr. Bea.

Because Valtorta said «I can affirm that I have had no human source to be able to know what I write, and what, even while writing, I often do not understand.»

Because Valtorta herself confessed that she was not sure whether God or Satan had inspired her to write it.

Because Abp. Lefebvre disliked it.

...