Adolphus,

If there is no scriptural basis for the chastisement, which I agree there isn't, then people are taking this concept entirely from mystics and visionaries.  

You're uninformed.  Maybe you should try reading the Bible.  

Read about the Great Flood of Noah, and the rainbow (called My Bow in Scripture), and how it is God's promise that He will never again destroy the world by water.  However, there is more in regards to "by fire," as well as St. Paul, with "as if by fire."  

So you have a lot to learn, that is, if you are able to learn (if your will allows it).

This is worrying, especially now that Garabandal has been seriously called into doubt since Joey Lomangino died without regaining his eyesight.

Irrelevant.  Garabandal was always fringe, at best, and never approved.  
You can't say that about Fatima, La Salette, or even Akita.

I also noticed from a previous post, Adolphus, that you don't accept Akita.  Neither do I.  

You're not obliged to accept Akita.  But you cannot expect to be saved from any tribulations just because you don't think they're going to happen.  There is historical precedence for this principle.  There were many thousands of people in the days of Noah who didn't recognize him as telling the truth, nor were they obliged to do so by the authority of the church.  But they died along with all the others who were an abomination to God (which is why the flood happened).

It keeps coming into my mind that many Catholics, particularly Trads, might be distracted by all this talk of the coming 'Chastisement' and may be missing indications that, dare I say it, the path is being laid for the rise of the Antichrist.  

In case you didn't notice, the chastisement is already here.  It begins with a spiritual chastisement (post Vat.II) and eventually culminates with a physical chastisement, that is, if the pope and bishops continue to obstinately ignore Our Lady's request.  

I've just re-read Hippolytus, 'A Discourse on the End of the World'.  Both St John Chrysostom and St John of Damascus write about the rise of the Antichrist and how to recognise him.

That's nice, but there is a lot more, especially in Scripture.  The Apocalypse of St. John, for example, is being fulfilled little by little as we speak.  You need to know how to read it, though, and if you close your mind based on pre-determined bias like "I don't believe in Akita," etc., then you're going to miss out.

It's up to you.

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0504.htm

Perhaps I should start a new thread on this. Tomorrow, when I've had more time to think.

"Tomorrow, when I've had more time to think" isn't a sentence.

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Quote from: Neil Obstat

Quote from: Matto

I wonder if this will happen in our lifetimes. It would be nice to live through it and see a reformed world afterwards.

Perhaps having survived will have been nice, but going through it won't be "nice" at all!

I am reminded of my cat.  She likes HAVING BEEN brushed, but she absolutely HATES
to BE brushed.  Or going to the dentist -- it's great to have healthy teeth again, but
what it takes to GET there ain't such a picnic.  

Remember Our Lady of Akita -- the living will envy the dead.  That was given to Sr. Sasagawa just a few years after Fr. Pel (and Padre Pio) had died.

I do not believe in those messages supposedly given by Most Holy Mary at Akita.  I just cannot believe Our Lady could speak in future tense in 1973 when saying that the Church would be infiltrated.  I cannot believe She had said nothing about the bastard mass already imposed few years earlier.  I cannot believe She could have pointed to a modernist bishop as the superior to whom the seer had to obey and follow…

You don't really know what Modernism is, then, because by your persistent rejection of Our Lady's warnings and the traditional interpretation of Scripture as applies to our times (which +W is very good at, usually) you exhibit Modernist tendencies yourself.  But since you don't recognize that, this non-recognition blinds you to understanding Modernism itself, and how it applies to YOU and those who think like you have shown here.

And on top of that, such revelations were approved by the modernist rome…

Again, you're ignorant.  Modernism does not prevent the Holy See from being infallible under the proper conditions, nor does it make it unable to give proper approval to contemporary prophesy.  There is nothing new about this.  It's all over the Old Testament, for example.  It even applies to Annas and Caiphas, who were the official High Priest(s) of that time, equivalent to what the Pope(s) is (/are) in our age.

Quote from: awkwardcustomer

Is there any Scriptural basis for this 'Chastisement' and for the 'three days of darkness' that so many seem to be anticipating?

Here's a thought.  It's all a decoy, a distraction.  Trads will fail to recognise the rise of the Antichrist because they'll be saying - no, it can't be him, we haven't had the chastisement yet.

Here's a thought:  the distraction itself could be a distraction;  and THAT distraction from a distraction could be another distraction.  Do you think the devil isn't capable of such intrigue?  How shallow and superficial do you think he is?

I don't think there is any Scriptural basis for such chastisement.

I see.  I knew a man who could look at the full moon and say, "Moon?  What moon?  I don't see any moon."  

You can't have any conversation with such a one.  

I know a "veteran" who thinks Obama's birth certificate is real, because if it were fraudulent, then there would have been indictments and legal action against the fraud.  Since there was none, it must be an authentic docuмent.  One question he can't answer is why it says "black" in the "Race" box, when all birth certificates from that era had "Negro" in that box.  Furthermore, the same pixel anomalies that surround the word "black" inside that box are found in the data file regarding many other questionable things on the page, making the file into a patchwork of cut-and-paste.  How can you have a conversation about Obama with someone who thinks that way?

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Awkward customer, I think you are mistaken and Bishop Williamson is right. We are not yet in the age of the final AntiChrist. Among other things, it is the testimony of Scripture and the consensus of the Fathers that Jєωιѕн nation as a whole will repent of its perfidy and embrace the Catholic Faith before the end of the world.

There shouldn't be any difficulty in recognizing that the conversion of the world's Jews in our age would only be possible by the action of the Holy Ghost, as our prayer implies,

There is also a solid Biblical and patristic case to be made for an Age of Peace, where the true Faith will illumine all nations, and the empire of Christ span the seven seas, which of course has been confirmed by numberless Saints, as well as by the Lord and His Mother in their apparitions, much before Akita.

You would be "preaching to the choir" if you would caution against the error that these principles do not predate Akita even by millennia and that Akita is not merely a logical extension of the same Message.

What we are going through is like a crucifixion of the Church, and She will know a glorious resurrection, where the Gospel will then be preached to all nations.

So acceptable was this premise that when Modernists promoted the idea that we ought to promote various systems that could bring about this 'crucifixion' that it would be a GOOD THING, inasmuch as we would be promoting the fulfillment of Scripture, at Vat.II, the vast majority of the bishops went along with the new plan.  This is nothing short of HOW VAT.II HAPPENED.

Only after this the end will come, as the Lord said. Prophecies tell of an Angelic Shepherd and a Great Catholic Monarch. Mary, in just one example, spoke of our time in Her apparitions to Mother Mariana in 1634:

"At the end of the 19th century and into the 20th century, various heresies will be propagated in this land. … As these heresies spread and dominate, the precious light of Faith will be extinguished in souls by the almost total corruption of customs. During this period, there will be great physical and moral calamities, both public and private ... In order to free men from bondage to these heresies, those chosen by My Most Holy Son to effect the restoration will need great strength of will, constancy, valor and confidence in God. To test this faith and confidence of the just, there will be occasions where all will seem to be lost and paralyzed. This, then, will be the happy beginning of the complete restoration.”

That's a most appropriate excerpt, Nishant.  

Only the words of the Mother of God (from among humans) would be capable of such prophetic vision.


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Quote from: awkwardcustomer

Is there any Scriptural basis for this 'Chastisement' and for the 'three days of darkness' that so many seem to be anticipating?

Here's a thought.  It's all a decoy, a distraction.  Trads will fail to recognise the rise of the Antichrist because they'll be saying - no, it can't be him, we haven't had the chastisement yet.

I don't think there is any Scriptural basis for such chastisement.

Try reading the Apocalypse, first 19 chapters.  It describes all the different chastisements we will have to endure and all that will be annihilated.
Chapter 20 tellls of satan being locked up for 1,000 years (time of peace) and then he will be loosed again.

Also read the gospel for the last Sunday after Pentecost  Matt. 24:15-35

Miseremini said,

Try reading the Apocalypse, first 19 chapters.  It describes all the different chastisements we will have to endure and all that will be annihilated.
Chapter 20 tellls of satan being locked up for 1,000 years (time of peace) and then he will be loosed again.

Also read the gospel for the last Sunday after Pentecost  Matt. 24:15-35

Do you really think I haven't read the Apocalypse and St Matthew's Gospel?  Do you really think that?

As for your interpretation of Apocalypse, 20:1-5, here's what the online Douay-Rheims commentary says:

Bound him: The power of Satan has been very much limited by the passion of Christ: for a thousand years; that is, for the whole time of the New Testament; but especially from the time of the destruction of Babylon or pagan Rome, till the new efforts of Gog and Magog against the church, towards the end of the world. During which time the souls of the martyrs and saints live and reign with Christ in heaven, in the first resurrection, which is that of the soul to the life of glory; as the second resurrection will be that of the body, at the day of the general judgment.'

According to this, as I read it, Satan has already been bound for 1000 years, whereas you seem to be claiming that it is during the still to come, post-chastisement time of peace that Satan will be 'locked up'.

http://www.drbo.org/chapter/73020.htm

Adolphus,

If there is no scriptural basis for the chastisement, which I agree there isn't, then people are taking this concept entirely from mystics and visionaries.  This is worrying, especially now that Garabandal has been seriously called into doubt since Joey Lomangino died without regaining his eyesight.

I agree.  It could be very dangerous.

Of course I was referring to the chastisement as described by some mystics and visionaries, and not to the great tribulation prophesied in the Bible.

I also noticed from a previous post, Adolphus, that you don't accept Akita.  Neither do I.

Of course I don't accept Akita.  And I think any traditionalist should refuse it, since it is not possible that the Most Holy Virgin Mary could predict in 1973 what had been happening many years earlier.

It keeps coming into my mind that many Catholics, particularly Trads, might be distracted by all this talk of the coming 'Chastisement' and may be missing indications that, dare I say it, the path is being laid for the rise of the Antichrist.

I've just re-read Hippolytus, 'A Discourse on the End of the World'.  Both St John Chrysostom and St John of Damascus write about the rise of the Antichrist and how to recognise him.

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0504.htm

Perhaps I should start a new thread on this. Tomorrow, when I've had more time to think.

I think that would be a great idea.

You don't really know what Modernism is, then, because by your persistent rejection of Our Lady's warnings and the traditional interpretation of Scripture as applies to our times (which +W is very good at, usually) you exhibit Modernist tendencies yourself.

I don't reject Our Lady's warnings.  I reject what they say Our Lady said when I know She could not say so.

But since you don't recognize that, this non-recognition blinds you to understanding Modernism itself, and how it applies to YOU and those who think like you have shown here.

This just does not deserve to be answered.

And on top of that, such revelations were approved by the modernist rome…

Again, you're ignorant.[/quote]
I already knew that and it was not necessary you to tell me so.

Modernism does not prevent the Holy See from being infallible under the proper conditions, nor does it make it unable to give proper approval to contemporary prophesy.  There is nothing new about this.  It's all over the Old Testament, for example.  It even applies to Annas and Caiphas, who were the official High Priest(s) of that time, equivalent to what the Pope(s) is (/are) in our age.

So you say.  But, in my ignorance, I know modernism is the mother of all heresies, and that a true pope cannot be modernist.

Quote from: awkwardcustomer

Is there any Scriptural basis for this 'Chastisement' and for the 'three days of darkness' that so many seem to be anticipating?

Here's a thought.  It's all a decoy, a distraction.  Trads will fail to recognise the rise of the Antichrist because they'll be saying - no, it can't be him, we haven't had the chastisement yet.

Here's a thought:  the distraction itself could be a distraction;  and THAT distraction from a distraction could be another distraction.  Do you think the devil isn't capable of such intrigue?  How shallow and superficial do you think he is?

I don't think there is any Scriptural basis for such chastisement.

I see.  I knew a man who could look at the full moon and say, "Moon?  What moon?  I don't see any moon."

You can't have any conversation with such a one.[/quote]
I can see the moon, but I can't find a three dark days predicted in the Bible.