Catholic Info

Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: Adolphus on September 27, 2014, 10:17:22 AM

Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Adolphus on September 27, 2014, 10:17:22 AM
CHASTISEMENT COMING

Father Constant Louis Marie PEL (1876–1966) is not a name well-known among the souls gifted by God with a knowledge of how God is going to set today’s world straight, but for those who knew him he was a priest very close to God. Doctor in theology, seminary professor, founder of a convent for women and of a seminary for men, with a great devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, he was a personal friend of Padre Pio who said of him to some French pilgrims in San Giovanni Rotondo, “Why do you come to see me when you have so great a Saint in France?”

Fr Pel would spend nights on his feet in church with his forehead leaning against the Tabernacle, conversing with God in a permanent ecstasy. He died in a car accident just after Vatican II, but not before a seminarian, one of his spiritual sons, had been able to note down a prophecy of his, dating from 1945, concerning the chastisement which will strike France in particular. Here it is, quoted or abbreviated:—

“My son,” said Fr Pel, “know that with the sins of the world increasing in horror as this age wears on, great punishments from God will come down on the world and no continent will be spared by the Wrath of God. France being guilty of apostasy and denying its vocation will be severely chastised. East of a line stretching from Bordeaux in the south-west to Lille in the north-east, everything will be laid waste and set on fire by peoples invading from the east, and also by great flaming meteorites falling in a rain of fire upon all the earth and upon these regions especially. Revolution, war, epidemics, plagues, chemical poison gases, violent earthquakes and the re-awakening of France’s extinct volcanoes will destroy everything . .

“France to the west of that line will be less affected . . . because of the faith rooted in the Vendée and in Brittany . . . but any of God’s worst enemies seeking refuge there from the worldwide cataclysm will be found out, wherever they hide, and put to death by devils, because the Wrath of the Lord is just and holy. Thick darkness caused by the war, gigantic fires and fragments of burning stars falling for three days and nights will cause the sun to disappear, and only candles blessed on Candlemas (February 2) will give light in the hands of believers, but the godless will not see this miraculous light because they have darkness in their souls.

“In this way, my son, three quarters of mankind will be destroyed, and in certain parts of France survivors will have to go 60 miles to find another live human being . . . . Several nations will disappear off the face of the map . . . . A France thus purified will become the renewed “Eldest Daughter of the Church,” because all the Cains and Judases will have disappeared in this ‘Judgment upon the Nations’”. This Judgment is not yet the end of times, but so great is the punishment due to the sins of the nations that Our Lord told Fr Pel that the desolation at world’s end will be lesser.

Dear readers, what do we conclude? Let each of us strive with might and main, and with the help of the Catholic sacraments given to us by God for that purpose, to live in God’s grace and not in the state of sin, and let us make full use of the time he gives us between now and the Hour of his Justice to pray for the largest possible number of sinners to repent and save their souls for eternity when the Chastisement closes in. God, have mercy. Mary, help.

Kyrie eleison.
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: RomanCatholic1953 on September 27, 2014, 11:28:46 AM
Why thumbs down an article by BW! Explain this?
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 27, 2014, 07:15:07 PM
.

NOW, it sounds more like the Freemasons were worried about Fr. Louie Marie Pel when they wrote the M.R.S. for JXXIII.  

This guy is more a prophet of gloom than even the 3 Fatima children!!

Freemasons are renown for making someone's death look like a (car) "accident."

This EC is a keeper.  

I knew a guy who used to spend all night with his head leaning on the tabernacle too, but he thought that he might hear something because he wanted to know what the winning lottery numbers were going to be.  Shows how different my experience is from the life of a saint.   :furtive:

.
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 27, 2014, 07:25:35 PM
.

Hey, maybe DICI.org would be eager to put out some quips from Fr. Pel, you know, to promote the aggiornamento aggenda of the SSPX.  

Wait....... that might not be a good way to do that.  Okay, scratch that idea.  

Let's talk about golf instead;  or, about taking a moonlight walk* to convince ourselves that the Resistance is all based on unsubstantiated Internet "rumour" (even though there isn't anything specific, in the real world, to support such a notion).


*Cf, TheRecusant Issue #20, p. 28, Fr. Yves le Roux:  a Writer of Fanciful Fiction!

.
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on September 27, 2014, 07:27:38 PM
Quote from: Adolphus
CHASTISEMENT COMING

Father Constant Louis Marie PEL (1876–1966) is not a name well-known among the souls gifted by God with a knowledge of how God is going to set today’s world straight, but for those who knew him he was a priest very close to God. Doctor in theology, seminary professor, founder of a convent for women and of a seminary for men, with a great devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, he was a personal friend of Padre Pio who said of him to some French pilgrims in San Giovanni Rotondo, “Why do you come to see me when you have so great a Saint in France?”

Fr Pel would spend nights on his feet in church with his forehead leaning against the Tabernacle, conversing with God in a permanent ecstasy. He died in a car accident just after Vatican II, but not before a seminarian, one of his spiritual sons, had been able to note down a prophecy of his, dating from 1945, concerning the chastisement which will strike France in particular. Here it is, quoted or abbreviated:—

“My son,” said Fr Pel, “know that with the sins of the world increasing in horror as this age wears on, great punishments from God will come down on the world and no continent will be spared by the Wrath of God. France being guilty of apostasy and denying its vocation will be severely chastised. East of a line stretching from Bordeaux in the south-west to Lille in the north-east, everything will be laid waste and set on fire by peoples invading from the east, and also by great flaming meteorites falling in a rain of fire upon all the earth and upon these regions especially. Revolution, war, epidemics, plagues, chemical poison gases, violent earthquakes and the re-awakening of France’s extinct volcanoes will destroy everything . .

“France to the west of that line will be less affected . . . because of the faith rooted in the Vendée and in Brittany . . . but any of God’s worst enemies seeking refuge there from the worldwide cataclysm will be found out, wherever they hide, and put to death by devils, because the Wrath of the Lord is just and holy. Thick darkness caused by the war, gigantic fires and fragments of burning stars falling for three days and nights will cause the sun to disappear, and only candles blessed on Candlemas (February 2) will give light in the hands of believers, but the godless will not see this miraculous light because they have darkness in their souls.

“In this way, my son, three quarters of mankind will be destroyed, and in certain parts of France survivors will have to go 60 miles to find another live human being . . . . Several nations will disappear off the face of the map . . . . A France thus purified will become the renewed “Eldest Daughter of the Church,” because all the Cains and Judases will have disappeared in this ‘Judgment upon the Nations’”. This Judgment is not yet the end of times, but so great is the punishment due to the sins of the nations that Our Lord told Fr Pel that the desolation at world’s end will be lesser.

Dear readers, what do we conclude? Let each of us strive with might and main, and with the help of the Catholic sacraments given to us by God for that purpose, to live in God’s grace and not in the state of sin, and let us make full use of the time he gives us between now and the Hour of his Justice to pray for the largest possible number of sinners to repent and save their souls for eternity when the Chastisement closes in. God, have mercy. Mary, help.

Kyrie eleison.


Thank you for sharing with us.  Bishop Williamson is trying to save souls.  
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Matto on September 27, 2014, 07:46:00 PM
I wonder if this will happen in our lifetimes. It would be nice to live through it and see a reformed world afterwards.
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Marlelar on September 27, 2014, 07:49:59 PM
Where can I find more information in English about Fr. Pel?  I did a search but only came up with items in French.  I have never heard of him before this EC.

Marsha
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 27, 2014, 08:05:29 PM
Quote from: Matto
I wonder if this will happen in our lifetimes. It would be nice to live through it and see a reformed world afterwards.

Perhaps having survived will have been nice, but going through it won't be "nice" at all!

I am reminded of my cat.  She likes HAVING BEEN brushed, but she absolutely HATES
to BE brushed.  Or going to the dentist -- it's great to have healthy teeth again, but
what it takes to GET there ain't such a picnic.  

Remember Our Lady of Akita -- the living will envy the dead.  That was given to Sr. Sasagawa just a few years after Fr. Pel (and Padre Pio) had died.

.
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 27, 2014, 08:10:12 PM
Quote from: Marlelar
Where can I find more information in English about Fr. Pel?  I did a search but only came up with items in French.  I have never heard of him before this EC.

Marsha


Excellent question, Marsha!!  Keep them coming!!

.
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: RomanCatholic1953 on September 27, 2014, 09:21:02 PM
The main job of the Bishop is to save souls, not to make non-Catholics
feel comfortable in their errors.
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Croix de Fer on September 27, 2014, 09:28:20 PM
Quote from: RomanCatholic1953
Why thumbs down an article by BW! Explain this?


Probably done by a crypto-modernist with fαɢɢօt tendencies, or a crypto-jew, trying to discredit a good post by using their cursed phalanges as a misleading indicator.
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Adolphus on September 27, 2014, 10:37:36 PM
Quote from: Neil Obstat
Quote from: Matto
I wonder if this will happen in our lifetimes. It would be nice to live through it and see a reformed world afterwards.

Perhaps having survived will have been nice, but going through it won't be "nice" at all!

I am reminded of my cat.  She likes HAVING BEEN brushed, but she absolutely HATES
to BE brushed.  Or going to the dentist -- it's great to have healthy teeth again, but
what it takes to GET there ain't such a picnic.  

Remember Our Lady of Akita -- the living will envy the dead.  That was given to Sr. Sasagawa just a few years after Fr. Pel (and Padre Pio) had died.

I do not believe in those messages supposedly given by Most Holy Mary at Akita.  I just cannot believe Our Lady could speak in future tense in 1973 when saying that the Church would be infiltrated.  I cannot believe She had said nothing about the bastard mass already imposed few years earlier.  I cannot believe She could have pointed to a modernist bishop as the superior to whom the seer had to obey and follow…

And on top of that, such revelations were approved by the modernist rome…
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: OHCA on September 27, 2014, 11:42:46 PM
Quote from: ascent
Quote from: RomanCatholic1953
Why thumbs down an article by BW! Explain this?


Probably done by a crypto-modernist with fαɢɢօt tendencies, or a crypto-jew, trying to discredit a good post by using their cursed phalanges as a misleading indicator.


I have a hunch who the coward is.  Nothing more than a hunch.  But if he shows his ugly head and I'm right, I'll be calling for his banishment.

I see no legitimate reason for this to have been down-thumbed.  So I did a little background research and I suspect that Ascent is correct that it is indeed a fαɢɢօt.
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: awkwardcustomer on September 28, 2014, 07:00:42 AM
Is there any Scriptural basis for this 'Chastisement' and for the 'three days of darkness' that so many seem to be anticipating?

Here's a thought.  It's all a decoy, a distraction.  Trads will fail to recognise the rise of the Antichrist because they'll be saying - no, it can't be him, we haven't had the chastisement yet.

Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Adolphus on September 28, 2014, 08:45:13 PM
Quote from: awkwardcustomer
Is there any Scriptural basis for this 'Chastisement' and for the 'three days of darkness' that so many seem to be anticipating?

Here's a thought.  It's all a decoy, a distraction.  Trads will fail to recognise the rise of the Antichrist because they'll be saying - no, it can't be him, we haven't had the chastisement yet.

I don't think there is any Scriptural basis for such chastisement.
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: awkwardcustomer on September 29, 2014, 10:05:26 AM
Adolphus,

If there is no scriptural basis for the chastisement, which I agree there isn't, then people are taking this concept entirely from mystics and visionaries.  This is worrying, especially now that Garabandal has been seriously called into doubt since Joey Lomangino died without regaining his eyesight.

I also noticed from a previous post, Adolphus, that you don't accept Akita.  Neither do I.  It keeps coming into my mind that many Catholics, particularly Trads, might be distracted by all this talk of the coming 'Chastisement' and may be missing indications that, dare I say it, the path is being laid for the rise of the Antichrist.  

I've just re-read Hippolytus, 'A Discourse on the End of the World'.  Both St John Chrysostom and St John of Damascus write about the rise of the Antichrist and how to recognise him.

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0504.htm

Perhaps I should start a new thread on this. Tomorrow, when I've had more time to think.
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 29, 2014, 02:38:39 PM
Quote from: awkwardcustomer
Adolphus,

If there is no scriptural basis for the chastisement, which I agree there isn't, then people are taking this concept entirely from mystics and visionaries.  


You're uninformed.  Maybe you should try reading the Bible.  

Read about the Great Flood of Noah, and the rainbow (called My Bow in Scripture), and how it is God's promise that He will never again destroy the world by water.  However, there is more in regards to "by fire," as well as St. Paul, with "as if by fire."  

So you have a lot to learn, that is, if you are able to learn (if your will allows it).


Quote
This is worrying, especially now that Garabandal has been seriously called into doubt since Joey Lomangino died without regaining his eyesight.

Irrelevant.  Garabandal was always fringe, at best, and never approved.  
You can't say that about Fatima, La Salette, or even Akita.

Quote
I also noticed from a previous post, Adolphus, that you don't accept Akita.  Neither do I.  

You're not obliged to accept Akita.  But you cannot expect to be saved from any tribulations just because you don't think they're going to happen.  There is historical precedence for this principle.  There were many thousands of people in the days of Noah who didn't recognize him as telling the truth, nor were they obliged to do so by the authority of the church.  But they died along with all the others who were an abomination to God (which is why the flood happened).

Quote
It keeps coming into my mind that many Catholics, particularly Trads, might be distracted by all this talk of the coming 'Chastisement' and may be missing indications that, dare I say it, the path is being laid for the rise of the Antichrist.  

In case you didn't notice, the chastisement is already here.  It begins with a spiritual chastisement (post Vat.II) and eventually culminates with a physical chastisement, that is, if the pope and bishops continue to obstinately ignore Our Lady's request.  

Quote
I've just re-read Hippolytus, 'A Discourse on the End of the World'.  Both St John Chrysostom and St John of Damascus write about the rise of the Antichrist and how to recognise him.

That's nice, but there is a lot more, especially in Scripture.  The Apocalypse of St. John, for example, is being fulfilled little by little as we speak.  You need to know how to read it, though, and if you close your mind based on pre-determined bias like "I don't believe in Akita," etc., then you're going to miss out.

It's up to you.

Quote
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0504.htm

Perhaps I should start a new thread on this. Tomorrow, when I've had more time to think.


"Tomorrow, when I've had more time to think" isn't a sentence.

.
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Nishant on September 29, 2014, 02:47:37 PM
Awkward customer, I think you are mistaken and Bishop Williamson is right. We are not yet in the age of the final AntiChrist. Among other things, it is the testimony of Scripture and the consensus of the Fathers that Jєωιѕн nation as a whole will repent of its perfidy and embrace the Catholic Faith before the end of the world. There is also a solid Biblical and patristic case to be made for an Age of Peace, where the true Faith will illumine all nations, and the empire of Christ span the seven seas, which of course has been confirmed by numberless Saints, as well as by the Lord and His Mother in their apparitions, much before Akita. What we are going through is like a crucifixion of the Church, and She will know a glorious resurrection, where the Gospel will then be preached to all nations. Only after this the end will come, as the Lord said. Prophecies tell of an Angelic Shepherd and a Great Catholic Monarch. Mary, in just one example, spoke of our time in Her apparitions to Mother Mariana in 1634

"At the end of the 19th century and into the 20th century, various heresies will be propagated in this land. … As these heresies spread and dominate, the precious light of Faith will be extinguished in souls by the almost total corruption of customs. During this period, there will be great physical and moral calamities, both public and private ... In order to free men from bondage to these heresies, those chosen by My Most Holy Son to effect the restoration will need great strength of will, constancy, valor and confidence in God. To test this faith and confidence of the just, there will be occasions where all will seem to be lost and paralyzed. This, then, will be the happy beginning of the complete restoration.”
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 29, 2014, 03:04:16 PM
Quote from: Adolphus
Quote from: Neil Obstat
Quote from: Matto
I wonder if this will happen in our lifetimes. It would be nice to live through it and see a reformed world afterwards.

Perhaps having survived will have been nice, but going through it won't be "nice" at all!

I am reminded of my cat.  She likes HAVING BEEN brushed, but she absolutely HATES
to BE brushed.  Or going to the dentist -- it's great to have healthy teeth again, but
what it takes to GET there ain't such a picnic.  

Remember Our Lady of Akita -- the living will envy the dead.  That was given to Sr. Sasagawa just a few years after Fr. Pel (and Padre Pio) had died.


I do not believe in those messages supposedly given by Most Holy Mary at Akita.  I just cannot believe Our Lady could speak in future tense in 1973 when saying that the Church would be infiltrated.  I cannot believe She had said nothing about the bastard mass already imposed few years earlier.  I cannot believe She could have pointed to a modernist bishop as the superior to whom the seer had to obey and follow…

You don't really know what Modernism is, then, because by your persistent rejection of Our Lady's warnings and the traditional interpretation of Scripture as applies to our times (which +W is very good at, usually) you exhibit Modernist tendencies yourself.  But since you don't recognize that, this non-recognition blinds you to understanding Modernism itself, and how it applies to YOU and those who think like you have shown here.

Quote
And on top of that, such revelations were approved by the modernist rome…

Again, you're ignorant.  Modernism does not prevent the Holy See from being infallible under the proper conditions, nor does it make it unable to give proper approval to contemporary prophesy.  There is nothing new about this.  It's all over the Old Testament, for example.  It even applies to Annas and Caiphas, who were the official High Priest(s) of that time, equivalent to what the Pope(s) is (/are) in our age.

Quote from: Adolphus
Quote from: awkwardcustomer
Is there any Scriptural basis for this 'Chastisement' and for the 'three days of darkness' that so many seem to be anticipating?

Here's a thought.  It's all a decoy, a distraction.  Trads will fail to recognise the rise of the Antichrist because they'll be saying - no, it can't be him, we haven't had the chastisement yet.

Here's a thought:  the distraction itself could be a distraction;  and THAT distraction from a distraction could be another distraction.  Do you think the devil isn't capable of such intrigue?  How shallow and superficial do you think he is?

Quote
I don't think there is any Scriptural basis for such chastisement.

I see.  I knew a man who could look at the full moon and say, "Moon?  What moon?  I don't see any moon."  

You can't have any conversation with such a one.  

I know a "veteran" who thinks Obama's birth certificate is real, because if it were fraudulent, then there would have been indictments and legal action against the fraud.  Since there was none, it must be an authentic docuмent.  One question he can't answer is why it says "black" in the "Race" box, when all birth certificates from that era had "Negro" in that box.  Furthermore, the same pixel anomalies that surround the word "black" inside that box are found in the data file regarding many other questionable things on the page, making the file into a patchwork of cut-and-paste.  How can you have a conversation about Obama with someone who thinks that way?

.
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 29, 2014, 03:13:25 PM
.

The foremost symptom of Modernism is your inability to recognize the fact of your own infection.

.
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 29, 2014, 03:31:00 PM
Quote from: Nishant

Awkward customer, I think you are mistaken and Bishop Williamson is right. We are not yet in the age of the final AntiChrist. Among other things, it is the testimony of Scripture and the consensus of the Fathers that Jєωιѕн nation as a whole will repent of its perfidy and embrace the Catholic Faith before the end of the world.

There shouldn't be any difficulty in recognizing that the conversion of the world's Jews in our age would only be possible by the action of the Holy Ghost, as our prayer implies,


Emitte spiritum tuum et creabuntur, et renovabis faciem terrae. Alleluia.


Quote
There is also a solid Biblical and patristic case to be made for an Age of Peace, where the true Faith will illumine all nations, and the empire of Christ span the seven seas, which of course has been confirmed by numberless Saints, as well as by the Lord and His Mother in their apparitions, much before Akita.

You would be "preaching to the choir" if you would caution against the error that these principles do not predate Akita even by millennia and that Akita is not merely a logical extension of the same Message.

Quote
What we are going through is like a crucifixion of the Church, and She will know a glorious resurrection, where the Gospel will then be preached to all nations.

So acceptable was this premise that when Modernists promoted the idea that we ought to promote various systems that could bring about this 'crucifixion' that it would be a GOOD THING, inasmuch as we would be promoting the fulfillment of Scripture, at Vat.II, the vast majority of the bishops went along with the new plan.  This is nothing short of HOW VAT.II HAPPENED.

Quote
Only after this the end will come, as the Lord said. Prophecies tell of an Angelic Shepherd and a Great Catholic Monarch. Mary, in just one example, spoke of our time in Her apparitions to Mother Mariana in 1634:

"At the end of the 19th century and into the 20th century, various heresies will be propagated in this land. … As these heresies spread and dominate, the precious light of Faith will be extinguished in souls by the almost total corruption of customs. During this period, there will be great physical and moral calamities, both public and private ... In order to free men from bondage to these heresies, those chosen by My Most Holy Son to effect the restoration will need great strength of will, constancy, valor and confidence in God. To test this faith and confidence of the just, there will be occasions where all will seem to be lost and paralyzed. This, then, will be the happy beginning of the complete restoration.”

That's a most appropriate excerpt, Nishant.  

Only the words of the Mother of God (from among humans) would be capable of such prophetic vision.


.
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: awkwardcustomer on September 29, 2014, 03:54:26 PM
Nishant said,
Quote

There is also a solid Biblical and patristic case to be made for an Age of Peace, where the true Faith will illumine all nations .....

Can you provide a reference for this?

I am aware of Mother Mariana's apparitions. And countless other apparitions and predictions of a chastisement, 3 days of darkness etc.  If the Age of Peace is supposed to follow this chastisement, then I would be very grateful for any scriptural reference which indicates this.

It is not a question of either Bishop Williamson or myself being right or wrong. It has been suggested by early Church writers that the Antichrist would sit in the rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. St Hippolytus in his 'Discourse on the End of the World' states (para 25):

"And after that he will build the temple in Jerusalem, and will restore it again speedily, and give it over to the Jews."
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0504.htm

St Irenaeus, 'Against heresies', Book V, Ch 30, para 4, also makes reference to this:

"But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem ....."
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103530.htm

What are we to think, given the fact that there are already calls to rebuild the temple in Jerusalem?  Maybe nothing, in which case should we assume that there will be a chastisement, followed by a restoration and then a period of peace, during which time any plan to rebuild the temple will be put on hold.  Then, the world will fall into apostasy again and the time of the Antichrist will come.

http://www.breakingisraelnews.com/19539/ready-rebuild-temple/#tRTSuQx0x0PEMBEu.97  
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Miseremini on September 29, 2014, 05:05:57 PM
Quote from: Adolphus
Quote from: awkwardcustomer
Is there any Scriptural basis for this 'Chastisement' and for the 'three days of darkness' that so many seem to be anticipating?

Here's a thought.  It's all a decoy, a distraction.  Trads will fail to recognise the rise of the Antichrist because they'll be saying - no, it can't be him, we haven't had the chastisement yet.

I don't think there is any Scriptural basis for such chastisement.


Try reading the Apocalypse, first 19 chapters.  It describes all the different chastisements we will have to endure and all that will be annihilated.
Chapter 20 tellls of satan being locked up for 1,000 years (time of peace) and then he will be loosed again.

Also read the gospel for the last Sunday after Pentecost  Matt. 24:15-35
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 29, 2014, 05:26:40 PM
.

When someone really doesn't want to believe something, even if they read Scripture they're not going to start believing it.  This is our free will combined with our fallen nature, in action.

Persistent denial of God's revelation results in God sometimes hardening the heart of the denier such that they become obstinate and a heart of stone.

I knew a doctor by the name of Stone who was obstinate in his lack of faith and denial of all things spiritual.  He was a Jєωιѕн cardiologist, ironically, but not so ironically, he was atheist.  Atheist Jews are quite commonplace today.

.
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: awkwardcustomer on September 29, 2014, 06:04:59 PM
Miseremini said,
Quote

Try reading the Apocalypse, first 19 chapters.  It describes all the different chastisements we will have to endure and all that will be annihilated.
Chapter 20 tellls of satan being locked up for 1,000 years (time of peace) and then he will be loosed again.

Also read the gospel for the last Sunday after Pentecost  Matt. 24:15-35

Do you really think I haven't read the Apocalypse and St Matthew's Gospel?  Do you really think that?

As for your interpretation of Apocalypse, 20:1-5, here's what the online Douay-Rheims commentary says:

Bound him: The power of Satan has been very much limited by the passion of Christ: for a thousand years; that is, for the whole time of the New Testament; but especially from the time of the destruction of Babylon or pagan Rome, till the new efforts of Gog and Magog against the church, towards the end of the world. During which time the souls of the martyrs and saints live and reign with Christ in heaven, in the first resurrection, which is that of the soul to the life of glory; as the second resurrection will be that of the body, at the day of the general judgment.'

According to this, as I read it, Satan has already been bound for 1000 years, whereas you seem to be claiming that it is during the still to come, post-chastisement time of peace that Satan will be 'locked up'.

http://www.drbo.org/chapter/73020.htm

Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Miseremini on September 29, 2014, 07:35:28 PM
Quote from: awkwardcustomer
Miseremini said,
Quote

Try reading the Apocalypse, first 19 chapters.  It describes all the different chastisements we will have to endure and all that will be annihilated.
Chapter 20 tellls of satan being locked up for 1,000 years (time of peace) and then he will be loosed again.

Also read the gospel for the last Sunday after Pentecost  Matt. 24:15-35

Do you really think I haven't read the Apocalypse and St Matthew's Gospel?  Do you really think that?

As for your interpretation of Apocalypse, 20:1-5, here's what the online Douay-Rheims commentary says:

Bound him: The power of Satan has been very much limited by the passion of Christ: for a thousand years; that is, for the whole time of the New Testament; but especially from the time of the destruction of Babylon or pagan Rome, till the new efforts of Gog and Magog against the church, towards the end of the world. During which time the souls of the martyrs and saints live and reign with Christ in heaven, in the first resurrection, which is that of the soul to the life of glory; as the second resurrection will be that of the body, at the day of the general judgment.'

According to this, as I read it, Satan has already been bound for 1000 years, whereas you seem to be claiming that it is during the still to come, post-chastisement time of peace that Satan will be 'locked up'.

http://www.drbo.org/chapter/73020.htm



The commentary you quote totally enforces the Apocalypse

1." the power of Satan has been very much Limited"  Limited, not locked up so there is an era of peace.

2. Satan limited  "till the new efforts of Gog and Magog against the church, towards the end of time" Sounds like the last 50 years or so.

.3. "Satan has already been bound for 1000 years"  Which thousand years has there been peace since the beginning of the world?

4.  "post chastisement time of peace that Satan will be "locked up".  I don't claim this, this is what chapter 20 of the Apocalypse states.

Sounds like the triumph of the Immaculate Heart to me !
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Adolphus on September 29, 2014, 10:03:31 PM
Quote from: awkwardcustomer
Adolphus,

If there is no scriptural basis for the chastisement, which I agree there isn't, then people are taking this concept entirely from mystics and visionaries.  This is worrying, especially now that Garabandal has been seriously called into doubt since Joey Lomangino died without regaining his eyesight.

I agree.  It could be very dangerous.

Of course I was referring to the chastisement as described by some mystics and visionaries, and not to the great tribulation prophesied in the Bible.

Quote from: awkwardcustomer
I also noticed from a previous post, Adolphus, that you don't accept Akita.  Neither do I.

Of course I don't accept Akita.  And I think any traditionalist should refuse it, since it is not possible that the Most Holy Virgin Mary could predict in 1973 what had been happening many years earlier.

Quote from: awkwardcustomer
It keeps coming into my mind that many Catholics, particularly Trads, might be distracted by all this talk of the coming 'Chastisement' and may be missing indications that, dare I say it, the path is being laid for the rise of the Antichrist.

I've just re-read Hippolytus, 'A Discourse on the End of the World'.  Both St John Chrysostom and St John of Damascus write about the rise of the Antichrist and how to recognise him.

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0504.htm

Perhaps I should start a new thread on this. Tomorrow, when I've had more time to think.

I think that would be a great idea.
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Adolphus on September 29, 2014, 10:11:31 PM
Quote from: Miseremini
Quote from: Adolphus
Quote from: awkwardcustomer
Is there any Scriptural basis for this 'Chastisement' and for the 'three days of darkness' that so many seem to be anticipating?

Here's a thought.  It's all a decoy, a distraction.  Trads will fail to recognise the rise of the Antichrist because they'll be saying - no, it can't be him, we haven't had the chastisement yet.

I don't think there is any Scriptural basis for such chastisement.


Try reading the Apocalypse, first 19 chapters.  It describes all the different chastisements we will have to endure and all that will be annihilated.
Chapter 20 tellls of satan being locked up for 1,000 years (time of peace) and then he will be loosed again.

Also read the gospel for the last Sunday after Pentecost  Matt. 24:15-35

Thank you, but the chastisement with three days of darkness is not mentioned there…
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Adolphus on September 29, 2014, 10:31:09 PM
Quote from: Neil Obstat
You don't really know what Modernism is, then, because by your persistent rejection of Our Lady's warnings and the traditional interpretation of Scripture as applies to our times (which +W is very good at, usually) you exhibit Modernist tendencies yourself.

I don't reject Our Lady's warnings.  I reject what they say Our Lady said when I know She could not say so.

Quote from: Neil Obstat
But since you don't recognize that, this non-recognition blinds you to understanding Modernism itself, and how it applies to YOU and those who think like you have shown here.

This just does not deserve to be answered.

Quote
And on top of that, such revelations were approved by the modernist rome…

Again, you're ignorant.[/quote]
I already knew that and it was not necessary you to tell me so.

Quote from: Neil Obstat
Modernism does not prevent the Holy See from being infallible under the proper conditions, nor does it make it unable to give proper approval to contemporary prophesy.  There is nothing new about this.  It's all over the Old Testament, for example.  It even applies to Annas and Caiphas, who were the official High Priest(s) of that time, equivalent to what the Pope(s) is (/are) in our age.

So you say.  But, in my ignorance, I know modernism is the mother of all heresies, and that a true pope cannot be modernist.

Quote from: Adolphus
Quote from: awkwardcustomer
Is there any Scriptural basis for this 'Chastisement' and for the 'three days of darkness' that so many seem to be anticipating?

Here's a thought.  It's all a decoy, a distraction.  Trads will fail to recognise the rise of the Antichrist because they'll be saying - no, it can't be him, we haven't had the chastisement yet.

Here's a thought:  the distraction itself could be a distraction;  and THAT distraction from a distraction could be another distraction.  Do you think the devil isn't capable of such intrigue?  How shallow and superficial do you think he is?

Quote
I don't think there is any Scriptural basis for such chastisement.

I see.  I knew a man who could look at the full moon and say, "Moon?  What moon?  I don't see any moon."

You can't have any conversation with such a one.[/quote]
I can see the moon, but I can't find a three dark days predicted in the Bible.
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 29, 2014, 10:33:42 PM
.

From Eleison Comments CXCII, March 19th, 2011:

"By the steadily increasing rate of earthquakes and other natural disasters all over the world over the last several years, the Lord God is certainly trying to get the attention of all of us, maybe in the hope that he will not have to inflict on us the worldwide "rain of fire" of which his Mother warned us at Akita (in Japan) in 1973."

.
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Adolphus on September 29, 2014, 10:54:25 PM
Akita, in 1973:

«The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see Cardinals opposing Cardinals, Bishops against other Bishops. The priests who venerate Me will be scorned and opposed by their confreres (other priests). Churches and altars will be sacked. The Church will be full of those who accept compromises, and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord.»

Not a word regarding the bastard mass?  Not a word about the infamous vatican ii?

The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church: hey, didn't this happen long before 1973?  Why would Our Lady say "will infiltrate" when it was completely infiltrated?  To deceive us making us to believe the Church is not yet infiltrated?
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Adolphus on September 29, 2014, 10:55:46 PM
By the way, I didn't know I need to believe in Akita to understand the Apocalypse.
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 29, 2014, 10:58:56 PM
.

Correction:

Quote from: Adolphus
Quote from: Neil Obstat

You don't really know what Modernism is, then, because by your persistent rejection of Our Lady's warnings and the traditional interpretation of Scripture as applies to our times (which +W is very good at, usually) you exhibit Modernist tendencies yourself.

I don't reject Our Lady's warnings.  I reject what they say Our Lady said when I know She could not say so.
Quote from: Neil Obstat

But since you don't recognize that, this non-recognition blinds you to understanding Modernism itself, and how it applies to YOU and those who think like you have shown here.

This just does not deserve to be answered.
Quote from: Adolphus
And on top of that, such revelations were approved by the modernist rome…
Again, you're ignorant.

Huh?  You said that yourself.  So you're calling yourself ignorant?

Oh.  Okay.  You win.  HAHAHAHA

Quote from: Adolphus
I already knew that and it was not necessary you [sic] to tell me so.
Quote from: Neil Obstat

Modernism does not prevent the Holy See from being infallible under the proper conditions, nor does it make it unable to give proper approval to contemporary prophesy.  There is nothing new about this.  It's all over the Old Testament, for example.  It even applies to Annas and Caiphas, who were the official High Priest(s) of that time, equivalent to what the Pope(s) is (/are) in our age.

So you say.  But, in my ignorance, I know modernism is the mother of all heresies, and that a true pope cannot be modernist.

In this one sentence you reveal your utter ignorance of what Modernism is.

Quote from: Adolphus
Quote from: awkwardcustomer
Is there any Scriptural basis for this 'Chastisement' and for the 'three days of darkness' that so many seem to be anticipating?

Here's a thought.  It's all a decoy, a distraction.  Trads will fail to recognise the rise of the Antichrist because they'll be saying - no, it can't be him, we haven't had the chastisement yet.
Quote from: Adolphus
Quote from: Neil Obstat

Here's a thought:  the distraction itself could be a distraction;  and THAT distraction from a distraction could be another distraction.  Do you think the devil isn't capable of such intrigue?  How shallow and superficial do you think he is?

Quote from: Adolphus
I don't think there is any Scriptural basis for such chastisement.

I see.  I knew a man who could look at the full moon and say, "Moon?  What moon?  I don't see any moon."

You can't have any conversation with such a one.

I can see the moon, but I can't find a three dark days predicted in the Bible.

I didn't say you can't see the moon.  I said you remind me of one who says he can't see the moon.  You can see the moon but you refuse to see other things.  It's the same kind of blindness, only the moon denier in a way is more honest in his dishonesty.

.
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 29, 2014, 11:01:53 PM
Quote from: Adolphus
Akita, in 1973:

«The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see Cardinals opposing Cardinals, Bishops against other Bishops. The priests who venerate Me will be scorned and opposed by their confreres (other priests). Churches and altars will be sacked. The Church will be full of those who accept compromises, and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord.»

Not a word regarding the bastard mass?  Not a word about the infamous vatican ii? [sic]

The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church: hey, didn't this happen long before 1973?  Why would Our Lady say "will infiltrate" when it was completely [So -- it hasn't gotten any worse since then, eh?] infiltrated?  To deceive us making us to believe the Church is not yet infiltrated?


If this is the level of your comprehension, I don't think there is any hope in trying to show you what you're missing, because (like the guy who says "Moon? What moon?") you just don't want to know.  

Your choice.

.
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: awkwardcustomer on September 30, 2014, 04:00:28 AM
Neil Obstat,

You comments on this thread have descended into outright abuse and insult.

Usually your posts consist of little more than rambling, meaningless nonsense.

But here you have gone way beyond what would be considered acceptable in normal discourse.

I hope you are not as unpleasant in your day to day life as you have demonstrated yourself to be here.

I won't bother to quote a selection of your nasty comments here.  Anyone reading this thread will be able to see for themselves.  
 

Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Cera on September 30, 2014, 05:05:17 PM
In a talk titled "The Seven Ages of the Church," available online, Bishop Williamson explains that we are now in the sixth age, which is like a dress rehersal for the seventh age.

We are now in a time of chastisement, first spiritual and then physical, which will include another prototype of the antichrist (like Nero and Hitler were prototypes). After the desolation of the physical chastisement, we will have the era of peace promised by Our Lady at Fatima. And then will be the seventh age of the Church.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ0d55C69dE
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Adolphus on October 01, 2014, 12:16:04 AM
Quote from: Cera
In a talk titled "The Seven Ages of the Church," available online, Bishop Williamson explains that we are now in the sixth age, which is like a dress rehersal for the seventh age.

We are now in a time of chastisement, first spiritual and then physical, which will include another prototype of the antichrist (like Nero and Hitler were prototypes). After the desolation of the physical chastisement, we will have the era of peace promised by Our Lady at Fatima. And then will be the seventh age of the Church.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ0d55C69dE

When or how Our Lady at Fatima promised an era of peace?  I have read She said "In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph".  And the end should be after or at the last part of the seventh age of the Church.
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: awkwardcustomer on October 01, 2014, 05:50:06 AM
Adolphus, the text of the 2nd part of the Secret of Fatima does refer to a 'period of peace'.

...... If My requests are heeded, Russia will be converted and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions against the Church. The good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, various nations will be annihilated. In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to Me, and she will be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world.

http://www.fatima.org/essentials/message/tspart2.asp

But now I am going to ask something that could be construed as almost heretical in Traditional circles - why should we take Sr Lucia's words as gospel?  Why?  How do we know that these are the words of Our Lady of Fatima? The answer is - we don't.

Something has bothered me about the whole Fatima business for a while.  Why did Sr Lucia remain in a Novus Ordo convent? Traditionalists will say that she was bound by obedience.  If that is the answer, why don't Trads follow her example and attend the Novus Ordo too?  After all, if Our Lady of Fatima really did entrust the Secrets to Sr Lucia - who attended the Novus Ordo Mass - then what was good for Sr Lucia should be good for the rest of us.

Meanwhile, the SSPX, the Resistance, the Sedevacantists, are all united in condemning the Novus Ordo Mass, the very Mass which Sr Lucia, the seer of Fatima attended.  Sr Lucia's words are taken as gospel and yet she was a Novus Ordo Mass attender.  There is a contradiction at the heart of this affair, since the various Trad groups write off Novus Ordites as being practically heretical.  Does that include Sr Lucia?  If not, why not?  Ridiculous theories of a fake Sr Lucia are little more than a failed attempt to explain this contradiction.  

I am always hearing Trads of my acquaintance say things like - "Our Lord told Sr Lucia this" and "Our Lady told Sr Lucia that".  But how do they know?  The answer is - they don't.




Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Francisco on October 01, 2014, 10:41:35 AM
Pope Francis has called for an Extraordinary Synod of Bishops that will be held from October 5-18th, 2014 at the Vatican. The synod will reflect on the theme “The Pastoral Challenges of the Family in the Context of the Evangelization.”

There has been alarm in conservative and traditionalist circles about this. I have even seen an online petition to stop this synod. Yesterday, Atila Guimaraes of TIA put out a commentary on it. (Francis' guidelines for the Synod: http://traditioninaction.org/bev/171bev09_29_2014.htm). Bishop Sanborn and associates have dubbed it a "Sin-od". I'm not aware that Bp Fellay has said anything about it, but has Bp Williamson? What's going on?
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Adolphus on October 01, 2014, 12:19:13 PM
Quote from: awkwardcustomer
Adolphus, the text of the 2nd part of the Secret of Fatima does refer to a 'period of peace'.

...... If My requests are heeded, Russia will be converted and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions against the Church. The good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, various nations will be annihilated. In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to Me, and she will be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world.

http://www.fatima.org/essentials/message/tspart2.asp

But now I am going to ask something that could be construed as almost heretical in Traditional circles - why should we take Sr Lucia's words as gospel?  Why?  How do we know that these are the words of Our Lady of Fatima? The answer is - we don't.

Something has bothered me about the whole Fatima business for a while.  Why did Sr Lucia remain in a Novus Ordo convent? Traditionalists will say that she was bound by obedience.  If that is the answer, why don't Trads follow her example and attend the Novus Ordo too?  After all, if Our Lady of Fatima really did entrust the Secrets to Sr Lucia - who attended the Novus Ordo Mass - then what was good for Sr Lucia should be good for the rest of us.

Meanwhile, the SSPX, the Resistance, the Sedevacantists, are all united in condemning the Novus Ordo Mass, the very Mass which Sr Lucia, the seer of Fatima attended.  Sr Lucia's words are taken as gospel and yet she was a Novus Ordo Mass attender.  There is a contradiction at the heart of this affair, since the various Trad groups write off Novus Ordites as being practically heretical.  Does that include Sr Lucia?  If not, why not?  Ridiculous theories of a fake Sr Lucia are little more than a failed attempt to explain this contradiction.  

I am always hearing Trads of my acquaintance say things like - "Our Lord told Sr Lucia this" and "Our Lady told Sr Lucia that".  But how do they know?  The answer is - they don't.

Thank you for you kind answer.  Certainly almost every traditionalist believes in the messages given at Fatima.  Certainly they are not dogmatic and we should always keep in mind that the Church's approval of the messages does not mean we have to believe in them.  Church's approval mean there is nothing against the faith and that the apparitions seem to be supernatural.  Nothing else.
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Cera on October 01, 2014, 04:46:18 PM
Quote from: Francisco
Pope Francis has called for an Extraordinary Synod of Bishops that will be held from October 5-18th, 2014 at the Vatican. The synod will reflect on the theme “The Pastoral Challenges of the Family in the Context of the Evangelization.”

There has been alarm in conservative and traditionalist circles about this. I have even seen an online petition to stop this synod. Yesterday, Atila Guimaraes of TIA put out a commentary on it. (Francis' guidelines for the Synod: http://traditioninaction.org/bev/171bev09_29_2014.htm). Bishop Sanborn and associates have dubbed it a "Sin-od". I'm not aware that Bp Fellay has said anything about it, but has Bp Williamson? What's going on?


Link didn't work.
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Adolphus on October 01, 2014, 08:16:53 PM
Quote from: Cera
Quote from: Francisco
Pope Francis has called for an Extraordinary Synod of Bishops that will be held from October 5-18th, 2014 at the Vatican. The synod will reflect on the theme “The Pastoral Challenges of the Family in the Context of the Evangelization.”

There has been alarm in conservative and traditionalist circles about this. I have even seen an online petition to stop this synod. Yesterday, Atila Guimaraes of TIA put out a commentary on it. (Francis' guidelines for the Synod: http://traditioninaction.org/bev/171bev09_29_2014.htm). Bishop Sanborn and associates have dubbed it a "Sin-od". I'm not aware that Bp Fellay has said anything about it, but has Bp Williamson? What's going on?


Link didn't work.


You may try this (http://traditioninaction.org/bev/171bev09_29_2014.htm).
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: awkwardcustomer on October 02, 2014, 08:39:32 AM
Adolphus said,
Quote

Certainly almost every traditionalist believes in the messages given at Fatima.  Certainly they are not dogmatic and we should always keep in mind that the Church's approval of the messages does not mean we have to believe in them.  Church's approval mean there is nothing against the faith and that the apparitions seem to be supernatural.  Nothing else.

Something else about the Fatima messages is niggling me.  The second part of the Secret attributes these words to Our Lady:

"If My requests are heeded, Russia will be converted and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions against the Church."

Given that Fatima occurred in 1917, the year of the Bolshevik revolution, the assumption is that the errors referred to are the errors of Communism.  

But Communism was imposed on Russia.  It didn't originate in Russia, but came from the West.  Karl Marx, after fleeing Germany to escape prosecution for his revolutionary activities, took refuge in London.  Once there, and living in Soho, he produced his most influential works in the reading room of the British Museum.  He is actually buried in Highgate Cemetery.

What's more, there are numerous accounts which verify that both Lenin and Trotsky were funded by Western banks.  Trotsky is said to have recruited a number of his followers from the Lower East Side of Manhattan before travelling to Russia via Canada.  There are accounts of Lenin travelling to St Petersburg via Germany with a train load of gold.

It can be readily argued that Communism was not an error of Russia, but that it was forced upon the Russian people, leading to the destruction of the Romanov dynasty, the confiscation of vast amounts of wealth by the Bolsheviks - most of which ended up in Swiss bank accounts - a massive persecution of the Russian Orthodox Church, and the murder of tens of millions of people.

In what possible sense can Communism be described as an error of Russia?

Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Graham on October 02, 2014, 08:54:17 AM
That seems excessively technical. Communism came to power in Russia and the vast majority of people therefore associate the two.
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Nishant on October 02, 2014, 10:28:29 AM
This is yet another case of sedevacantists agreeing with the liberals that the Church is not bound by Our Lady's words. Our Lady clearly said the conversion of Russia cannot come unless the Holy Father, with the Bishops, consecrates Russia to Her. Of course sedevacantists cannot fit this into their lens, so they do not believe it, but it is the mortal sin of the hierarchy that they refuse to obey. When our Savior solemnly assured the king of France what would undoubtedly happen to his country if he failled, in unconditional surrender and public obedience, to consecrate his country and rule to the Sacred Heart, was the Lord just making a suggestion, or was the king free to disobey? Impossible, St. Thomas says private revelations take place not indeed to teach new articles of Faith but rather to direct the actions of men. So they are vain who, after arriving at a considered judgment of its authenticity under the guidance of the Church, still refuse to obey such directions.

Despite an attempt to cast doubt on the sacred words of the Queen of Prophets - repeated not merely in Fatima, but in countless apparitions before and since, as already docuмented here - the truth is not even the most educated men in Europe could have told the three children of Fatima the great and disastrous revolution that was being prepared in Russia and in time would overwhelm all the world, exactly as Our Lady said it would.

Of course everyone should know, as the Jews boast in the Protocols of Zion, that the Bolshevik Revolution was conceived by world Jewry and imposed on poor Russia from without, to lead to the dissolution of Christendom. They say there openly that the Russian aristocracy was the one and only serious foe, apart from the Papacy, that they had in the world, and the truth - which certainly the children did not and could not know otherwise - is that the noble princes and people of Russia, although not yet Catholic, had vehemently resisted what the bankers wanted to do for a long time, to establish a central bank from which they could continue to impose the tyrannical and usurious yoke they had so much succeeded in establishing over the peoples of Europe. The Russian aristocracy had so courageously and so repeatedly resisted this measure before finally Russia succuмbed to this disastrous revolution. But all this takes not one iota from the truth of Our Lady's words, and rather splendidly confirms it, Our Lady said and St. Lucia repeated often that we must obtain beforehand the conversion of Russia or else Russia will be used as an instrument of the divine vengeance to punish the apostasy of the West.

Despite her centuries-long unhappy schism from the Holy Roman Church, Russia has been and remains most dear to the Immaculate Heart, and once she returns to the Catholic Church, will be among the most glorious of all nations in the coming Age of Mary.
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: MyrnaM on October 02, 2014, 11:25:57 AM
Quote from: Nishant
This is yet another case of sedevacantists agreeing with the liberals that the Church is not bound by Our Lady's words. Our Lady clearly said the conversion of Russia cannot come unless the Holy Father, with the Bishops, consecrates Russia to Her. Of course sedevacantists cannot fit this into their lens, so they do not believe it,


Another case of those who think they know better than God.  

Notice Our Lady's words were directed to describe the HOLY FATHER, not some pretender, a Modernist who robbed the Church of its Chair.  It is very liberal to believe that the Vicar of Christ, His earthly representative can teach by action and words, both truth and error.  

Next week will be the Fatima Conference at Mount St. Michael, and if you want an answer to your dilemma I suggest you attend.  
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Nishant on October 02, 2014, 11:56:03 AM
Dear Myrna, I consider the error that says we are not in any way bound by private revelation to be a grave mistake, especially in our times. Sedevacantism aside, do you think the king of France could have disobeyed what the Sacred Heart commanded him to do, on the claim it was "private revelation"? The French Revolution was what Our Lord said it would happen 100 years before it did.

Serious men seek the will of God in all things, and when God has manifested His will so clearly, and in this case, with a public miracle, it would be wrong to disobey. "Make it known to My ministers that given they follow the example of the king of France, they will follow him into misfortune." Sedevacantism is largely irrelevant to all this, what is more important is the denial of the Reign of Mary to come, and the only means by which that can be effected, which is what I addressed.

Now as for sedevacantism, you know, dear Myrna, that I don't agree with that theory. But I don't have to rely on private revelation to know that the 50+ year interrregnum sedevacantists think we currently are in cannot be right, that I think all Catholics can know by their Faith. Vatican I teaches it plainly in two places, where it says it is de fide that Peter will have perpetual successors in the primacy, and de fide that there will always be bishops in the Church who were sent just as the Apostles were sent, which means with a canonical mission from Christ and through Peter. Where are these bishops if we have had no Pope since Pius XII? By the way, these bishops and these bishops alone could call the necessary council that would have to declare the matter juridically, before the Cardinals, or the Roman clergy alone, could elect a new Pope. That is how Petrine succession is continued, uniquely perpetuated in the Roman Church, and is inseparable from the formal Apostolic succession, so that the one cannot be continued without the other.
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: MyrnaM on October 02, 2014, 12:11:46 PM
Quote from: Nishant
Dear Myrna, I consider the error that says we are not in any way bound by private revelation to be a grave mistake, especially in our times. Sedevacantism aside, do you think the king of France could have disobeyed what the Sacred Heart commanded him to do, on the claim it was "private revelation"? The French Revolution was what Our Lord said it would happen 100 years before it did.

Serious men seek the will of God in all things, and when God has manifested His will so clearly, and in this case, with a public miracle, it would be wrong to disobey. "Make it known to My ministers that given they follow the example of the king of France, they will follow him into misfortune." Sedevacantism is largely irrelevant to all this, what is more important is the denial of the Reign of Mary to come, and the only means by which that can be effected, which is what I addressed.

Now as for sedevacantism, you know, dear Myrna, that I don't agree with that theory. But I don't have to rely on private revelation to know that the 50+ year interrregnum sedevacantists think we currently are in cannot be right, that I think all Catholics can know by their Faith. Vatican I teaches it plainly in two places, where it says it is de fide that Peter will have perpetual successors in the primacy, and de fide that there will always be bishops in the Church who were sent just as the Apostles were sent, which means with a canonical mission from Christ and through Peter. Where are these bishops if we have had no Pope since Pius XII? By the way, these bishops and these bishops alone could call the necessary council that would have to declare the matter juridically, before the Cardinals, or the Roman clergy alone, could elect a new Pope. That is how Petrine succession is continued, uniquely perpetuated in the Roman Church, and is inseparable from the formal Apostolic succession, so that the one cannot be continued without the other.


Well dear Nishant, where do you get the idea to accept the sedevacantist position means we deny private revelation, true we are careful as to what apparitions we hold too, not the modern ones for sure.  Fatima yes, this is why we always call the conference at Mount St. Michael the FATIMA CONFERENCE.

Quote
Vatican I teaches it plainly in two places, where it says it is de fide that Peter will have perpetual successors in the primacy, and de fide that there will always be bishops in the Church who were sent just as the Apostles were sent, which means with a canonical mission from Christ and through Peter.


Yes, they teach this in our schools, your point is ... what?

Is it just Pride!  Since you can't understand how this fits into the age we are living in, you must hold on to FRANCIS?  Much more difficult to believe that this Modernist is a True Pope, much easier to have Faith in Jesus Christ that He is in charge and His planning is most perfect.   Have a little Faith.  Watch and Pray, that is all we are expected to do right now.  My own theory is we will soon know the power of God.  
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Nishant on October 02, 2014, 12:42:17 PM
Haha. Is it pride to believe a teaching of the Church in the same sense in which it was always believed? I'm sorry, Myrna, but I don't agree a 50+ year interregnum is compatible with that canon. We will agree to disagree.

I did not say you don't believe in private revelation, and I'm sure you sincerely believe you are right. But even beside the doctrine that I believe rules out the possibility of the extended sedevacantist position being correct, even practically it leads to a stalemate.

That's why we prefer to resist the Pope when he errs or when he sins, as Tradition says we can and must do. Suarez, "If the Pope commands something that is manifestly false, it will be lawful to disobey him." By refusing to acquiesce to his immoral deeds and keeping up the pressure on him to convert, we are serving the cause of the Church. If he converts, Christendom is saved. If he doesn't convert, but some members of the hierarchy do, then they can denounce him. And if he continues obstinate after that, then, not by private individuals, but by the bishops and Cardinals, he can be declared as a heretic. Both practically and doctrinally, such an approach seems to me more sound than the sedevacantist one.

Also, I don't agree that private individuals ever have the objective right on their own initiative to drop from the canon the name of the person universally recognized as Pope. They must complain to the bishops and Cardinals, who are the only judges in this matter, and ask the Church to make the required judgment first. It cannot happen that there are no Bishops, also it cannot happen that there are no Roman clergy, which most modern sedevacantists think has happened. That is false and impossible, the Faith requires us to hold that. St. Robert taught it, as did countless Fathers, Saints and Doctors, Pope Sixtus IV condemned the contrary. So how can we doubt this, and then say we are having faith in God by doubting this truth which God has told us to believe?

That being said, I have no doubt you are a good Catholic, trying to lead a good Catholic life, and holding to the Faith as you were taught it and understand it. May God bless you.
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: MyrnaM on October 02, 2014, 02:43:04 PM
Quote from: Nishant
Haha. Is it pride to believe a teaching of the Church in the same sense in which it was always believed? I'm sorry, Myrna, but I don't agree a 50+ year interregnum is compatible with that canon. We will agree to disagree.

I did not say you don't believe in private revelation, and I'm sure you sincerely believe you are right. But even beside the doctrine that I believe rules out the possibility of the extended sedevacantist position being correct, even practically it leads to a stalemate.

That's why we prefer to resist the Pope when he errs or when he sins, as Tradition says we can and must do. Suarez, "If the Pope commands something that is manifestly false, it will be lawful to disobey him." By refusing to acquiesce to his immoral deeds and keeping up the pressure on him to convert, we are serving the cause of the Church. If he converts, Christendom is saved. If he doesn't convert, but some members of the hierarchy do, then they can denounce him. And if he continues obstinate after that, then, not by private individuals, but by the bishops and Cardinals, he can be declared as a heretic. Both practically and doctrinally, such an approach seems to me more sound than the sedevacantist one.

Also, I don't agree that private individuals ever have the objective right on their own initiative to drop from the canon the name of the person universally recognized as Pope. They must complain to the bishops and Cardinals, who are the only judges in this matter, and ask the Church to make the required judgment first. It cannot happen that there are no Bishops, also it cannot happen that there are no Roman clergy, which most modern sedevacantists think has happened. That is false and impossible, the Faith requires us to hold that. St. Robert taught it, as did countless Fathers, Saints and Doctors, Pope Sixtus IV condemned the contrary. So how can we doubt this, and then say we are having faith in God by doubting this truth which God has told us to believe?

That being said, I have no doubt you are a good Catholic, trying to lead a good Catholic life, and holding to the Faith as you were taught it and understand it. May God bless you.
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: awkwardcustomer on October 02, 2014, 02:48:30 PM
Nishant said,
Quote

Our Lady clearly said the conversion of Russia cannot come unless the Holy Father, with the Bishops, consecrates Russia to Her.


How do you know Our Lady said this?  Tell me.  I'd love to know.

We only have Sr Lucia's word for this.  No-one else's.  Not one other person can confirm that Our Lady said this.

Sr Lucia became a Novus Ordo nun.  How many Novus Ordo nuns do you trust?  Not many, I'm sure.  Not one, I suspect.  And yet Sr Lucia remained in a Novus Ordo convent for decades.  She attended the Novus Ordo Mass.  Did Our Lady approved of this?  She must have!!!!!

This has nothing to do with Sedevacantism, by the way.  But your use of this red herring is surely a reflection of how dearly you, like the majority of Traditionalists, hold Fatima.  This is understandable. But the fact is, we have no way of knowing for sure that Our Lady actually spoke the words contained in the second part of the Fatima Secret.  

 

Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: MyrnaM on October 02, 2014, 02:54:57 PM
Thank you for posting you believe I am trying to live a Catholic life, I too believe you are a reasonable person.  However,  it upsets me to read that you post to accept the sedevacantist position is like a liberal.  Fine if you can't see yet, the person sitting in the Chair is not Catholic, but don't tell us on this side of the fence what we believe or don't believe.  

Quote
That's why we prefer to resist the Pope when he errs


I too could make an excuse for an error, however this Modernist errs much more than not.  Since when does it make International news WHEN a true pope speaks the truth, as he might once in a blue moon?  That alone should make you wonder.  

Quote
universally recognized as Pope
 

That only means the majority is wrong, nothing more.  Since when does the majority have to be correct.  Didn't Jesus Christ warn that when He returns will He find the Faith in the world.  Since when are we to follow the majority?

We are not called to believe what is not possible, we are called to Keep the Faith.  Francis is not doing that!
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: awkwardcustomer on October 02, 2014, 03:04:08 PM
Nishant said,
Quote

Despite an attempt to cast doubt on the sacred words of the Queen of Prophets - repeated not merely in Fatima, but in countless apparitions before and since, as already docuмented here - the truth is not even the most educated men in Europe could have told the three children of Fatima the great and disastrous revolution that was being prepared in Russia and in time would overwhelm all the world, exactly as Our Lady said it would.


Sr Lucia did not reveal the contents of the Secret until 1941, which she did by writing them down for the first time.  By that time she would have been more than aware of how events unfolded in Russia in 1917.

As for the parallels with the King of France and Our Lords supposed words to Sr Lucia - "Make it known to My ministers that given they follow the example of the king of France, they will follow him into misfortune" - again we have no-one but Sr Lucia to rely on for this.

I repeat, no-one has any proof whatsoever that the the Secret of Fatima contains the "sacred words of the Queen of Prophets".  

Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: awkwardcustomer on October 02, 2014, 03:15:05 PM
Graham said,
Quote

That seems excessively technical. Communism came to power in Russia and the vast majority of people therefore associate the two.

Our Lady is not the vast majority of people, and yet according to Sr Lucia, Our Lady referred to Russia's errors.  Communism was not an error of Russia.  It was imposed on Russia from outside, causing suffering and death on an unimaginable scale.
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: MyrnaM on October 02, 2014, 04:15:33 PM
awkwardcustomer  you are making a good point.  We who hold firm with Fatima believe in the word of Our Lady, however as you point out, are we really getting the words of Our Lady.  Someone else is telling us what Lucy said, and could it be possible that this someone else is either exaggerating, mistaken or twisting words.  

This Fatima 3rd secret which was supposed to be announced in 1960 was no doubt a warning that the Church was not changing at all, but the Church was shrinking in numbers.

Of course God is going to send a chastisement He has always worked that way when mankind forgets God.  
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: awkwardcustomer on October 02, 2014, 07:01:40 PM
MyrnaM said,
Quote

We who hold firm with Fatima believe in the word of Our Lady, however as you point out, are we really getting the words of Our Lady. Someone else is telling us what Lucy said, and could it be possible that this someone else is either exaggerating, mistaken or twisting words.

You're right.  We do not know for sure if the words we are being given truly are Sr Lucia's words.  But by the same token, we do not know for sure if St Lucia's words are truly the words of Our Lady.

It gives me no pleasure to question Fatima.  But it is not just Fatima that raises questions for me.  It is the whole narrative of the coming 'chastisement' followed by a' period of peace' in which the Church will be restored.

There is no Scriptural basis for this narrative, which is based entirely on private revelations, apparitions and prophesies.  Could this be an elaborately planned decoy to distract Catholics from the rise of the Antichrist, who might be ignored on the grounds that the 'chastisement' followed by the 'period of peace' hasn't happened yet?  

No doubt yourself and others will point to the 'Miracle of the Sun' which took place at Fatima as evidence that Fatima truly came from Heaven.  However, there have been other 'miracles of the sun' since them, the most recent taking place in 2013, at the Divine Mercy Hills, El Salvador City, Philippines. Here's the link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF0_ysUivxE

If you fast forward to 3.07 you will see what appears to be a miraculous transformation of the sun caught on camera.  Notice that the reactions of the crowd coincide with the sun's bursts and changes in size and light.  Of course it can be claimed that this is a trick of the camera.  But here is what one commentator had to say about that:
Quote

"..... there is video evidence (which could have been manipulated, but again, the one who did it would have been brilliant to manipulate it the way he did).

Manipulation of focus:
The light will bokeh out if you play with the camera focus. The problem is, everything else stayed in focus while the light change.

Manipulation of Aperture:
Aperture changes the light that goes into the camera. The higher the aperture, the less light comes in, the more focused your shot would be. The lower the aperture, the more light comes in and the more blury your shots would be. Again the problem with this is the camera stays focused.

Manipulation of angle:
Yes, the camera was moving, but the refraction of light that goes into a lens is not as extreme as what was shown on the footage. The simple changing of angle would have a considerable effect, but the change the amount of light the sun gave should also not have affected the surrounding areas as the natural auto light balancing of a camera will not compensate that much that quickly from an angle.

http://forum.tribalwars.net/showthread.php?270587-quot-Dancing-Sun-Miracle-quot-Divine-Mercy-Hills-Philippines

Now, I don't believe in the Divine Mercy devotion.  Sister Faustina's writings weree once on the index and all Divine Mercy images were ordered to be removed from Catholic Churches, until JPII revived the devotion.  And yet here is a 'miracle of the sun' which someone acquainted with photography cannot explain as a trick.  Was this a demonic display?  Could the same thing be said about the miracle of the sun associated with Fatima?

I know, it's hard to imagine.  All I'm saying is, don't be so focussed on the 'chastisement' and the 'period of peace' that you fail to recognise the rise of the Antichrist.




Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Adolphus on October 04, 2014, 12:39:18 PM
Quote from: Neil Obstat
Quote from: Adolphus
Akita, in 1973:

«The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see Cardinals opposing Cardinals, Bishops against other Bishops. The priests who venerate Me will be scorned and opposed by their confreres (other priests). Churches and altars will be sacked. The Church will be full of those who accept compromises, and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord.»

Not a word regarding the bastard mass?  Not a word about the infamous vatican ii? [sic]

The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church: hey, didn't this happen long before 1973?  Why would Our Lady say "will infiltrate" when it was completely [So -- it hasn't gotten any worse since then, eh?] infiltrated?  To deceive us making us to believe the Church is not yet infiltrated?


If this is the level of your comprehension, I don't think there is any hope in trying to show you what you're missing, because (like the guy who says "Moon? What moon?") you just don't want to know.  

Your choice.

If something is completely infiltrated, that does not mean it cannot be in a worse situation.

I notice that you don't offer an explanation for a message supposedly given in 1973 predicting things had already happened several years earlier.

I notice you say nothing about Our Lady supposedly giving as guide a modernist bishop.

I notice you say nothing about Our Lady supposedly giving some messages in 1973, but no one of them warns Her children about a bastard mass supplanting the True Holy Mass nor about the abominable vatican ii (it does not deserve to be written capitalized).

Your choice…
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Nishant on October 05, 2014, 12:46:07 PM
Dear Myrna, we will come back to sedevacantism in a minute, but before that, please do tell me, because I am not sure, what precisely does the CMRI at Mt. St. Michael teach about the conversion of Russia and the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary? I mean their exact position. For example, that, Yes, it will certainly come, or that, No, we are already in the time of the last AntiChrist, or otherwise, something else altogether, like, Impossible to say for sure?

Dear Awkward Customer, do you agree that Our Lady of Quito already told Mother Mariana about a coming restoration several centuries ago? Here, too, there were prophecies with exact detail no one could have known at that time, the Queen of Heaven foretold the universal corruption of morality, and the infilitration of Masonry into the Church in the 19th and 20th centuries, before, when all seems to be lost, heaven intervenes and there is a restoration. The same is true in many other Marian apparitions which also speak of an victory for the Church after a period of intense trial.

In Quito, Our Lady said She promises a restoration precisely so that we may not despair when all seems to be lost, for these are only trials sent by Her Son which serve to sanctify the just. I feel a little sorry for those who for one reason or another are led to doubt the certainty of this Age of Mary to come. Just like Mary remained steadfast in the hope of Her Son's Resurrection during His Passion, our heavenly Mother out of compassion for us wishes us to know for certain that a restoration will infallibly come.

I know you are currently wondering about Fatima, but in my opinion, Jesus has told us the other reason there. There is no other remedy for our age other than True Devotion to Mary and total consecration to God through Her, because He has willed it so for the greater honor of His Mother.

"Only She can help you" the Lord said to demonstrate Her great power with God and also when asked why Russia would convert only by a consecration of the Pope and the Bishops of that country to the Immaculate Heart, "'Because I want My whole Church to acknowledge that consecration as a triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary so that it would extend its cult later on and put the devotion to the Immaculate Heart beside the devotion to My Sacred Heart", He then told us how it would all end,  "Pray much for the Holy Father. He will do it, but it will be late. Nevertheless, the Immaculate Heart of Mary will save Russia. It has been entrusted to Her."

I see no reason at all to doubt this. This is part of the mission God foretold in Gen 3:15 and confirmed in Apoc 12 where the Woman is destined to crush the Serpent's head.

Personally, I think if sedevacantism leads someone to start doubting the truth not only of Fatima but even of the other earlier and approved Marian apparitions, that in and of itself would be a good reason to start doubting sedevacantism. But that's just me.

Finally, Awkward Customer, if Our Lady's words do not persuade you, and you remain interested in the question of what is to come, I would advise you to read a Catholic study of the Biblical and patristic evidence in favor of a coming universal restoration, like Fr. Arminjon's work cited on the other thread before you frame a definitive opinion. There are many Scriptural events yet to be fulfilled, therefore the time of the final AntiChrist is not just yet.
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Adolphus on October 05, 2014, 03:37:05 PM
Quote from: Nishant
Personally, I think if sedevacantism leads someone to start doubting the truth not only of Fatima but even of the other earlier and approved Marian apparitions, that in and of itself would be a good reason to start doubting sedevacantism. But that's just me.

Why do people blame everything on sedevacantism?

Sedevacantism has absolutely nothing to do with doubting apparitions and private revelations.
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: awkwardcustomer on October 05, 2014, 04:48:59 PM
Nishant,
You have raised a number of points in response to my questioning of the 'chastisement' followed by a 'restoration', both of which are supposed to take place before the coming of the Antichrist.  At the same time, you have linked my questioning of Fatima to Sedevacantism, despite the fact that in my mind, there is no connection whatsoever.  Let me explain how my queries came about.

I was watching a video by Brother Nathanael Kapner who claimed that according to the Russian Orthodox Church, the Antichrist will be Jєωιѕн.  After investigating this, I discovered that Orthodox teachings on the Antichrist - not just Russian but Greek too - are based on the writings of Church Fathers such as St Cyril of Jerusalem, St John of Damascus, St Hippolytus, St John Chrysostom, St Irenaeus etc.  And given that these saints lived and taught before the Schism, I decided to investigate further.

In view of the certainty of many Traditionalists that there will be a chastisement followed by a restoration, it is not surprising that the teachings of these saints on this subject have been passed over.  Everyone seems certain that because of the prophecies and apparitions, the time of the Antichrist must be way in the future.  And yet the Church Fathers describe the rise of the Antichrist as taking place in conditions that are uncannily similar to what we see around us. For example, according to St Hippolytus:
Quote

Wherefore all shall walk after their own will. And the children will lay hands on their parents. The wife will give up her own husband to death, and the husband will bring his own wife to judgment like a criminal. Masters will lord it over their servants savagely, and servants will assume an unruly demeanour toward their masters. None will reverence the grey hairs of the elderly, and none will have pity upon the comeliness of the youthful. The temples of God will be like houses, and there will be overturnings of the churches everywhere.The Scriptures will be despised, and everywhere they will sing the songs of the adversary. Fornications, and adulteries, and perjuries will fill the land; sorceries, and incantations, and divinations will follow after I these with all force and zeal. And, on the whole, from among those who profess to be Christians will rise up then false prophets, false apostles, impostors, mischief-makers, evil-doers, liars against each other, adulterers, fornicators, robbers, grasping, perjured, mendacious, hating each other. The shepherds will be like wolves; the priests will embrace falsehood; the monks will lust after the things of the world; the rich will assume hardness of heart; the rulers will not help the poor; the powerful will cast off all pity; the judges will remove justice from the just, and, blinded with bribes, they will call in unrighteousness.

('Discourse on the End of the World', para 7)
 http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0504.htm

All of this, and the subsequent rise of the Antichrist, is supposed to follow a chastisement and a restoration.  You and others speak with absolute certainty on this restoration and "the Age of Mary to come", all based on what exactly - prophecies given to children, nuns and laymen?  I am familiar with Mother Mariana's prophecies at Quito.  I am also familiar with La Salette, Akita, the Breton stigmatist Marie-Julie Jahenny, the Ven Elizabeth Canori-Mora, the German layman who prophesied a Russian invasion of Europe - Alois ....his name escapes me.  And so on, and on.

Could it be even remotely possible that the devil is behind all of this?  Satan makes his plans centuries in advance, one of the Church Fathers said - I wish I could find the exact source.  Could Satan have revealed to Mother Mariana his future plans to infiltrate the Church with Masonry in order to lend authenticity to her false visions?  Is it possible that Satan is deliberately blinding Catholics with these promises of a restoration in order to distract them from what is really going on - the rise of the Antichrist?

It's a terrible thought, I know. The claim is made repeatedly that Our Lady of Fatima revealed future events - the Bolshevik Revolution and the outbreak of WW2 - to Sr Lucia.  But Sr Lucia only revealed this in 1942 when she wrote down the first and second parts of the secret for the first time.  That's not a prophecy, at least not in my book. These events had already taken place.

And as for the 'miracle of the sun' - have you watched the video of the 'miracle of the sun' which is supposed to have taken place on Divine Mercy Sunday in the Philipinnes in 2013?  Have you heard about the 'miracles of the sun' which are said to take place regularly at Medjugurie?  No doubt you are familiar with this verse from Revelations 13:13-14,
Quote

And he did great signs, so that he made also fire to come down from heaven unto the earth in the sight of men. And he seduced them that dwell on the earth, for the signs, which were given him to do in the sight of the beast.....


According to the Church Fathers, the Antichrist will come at a time of great distress and upheaval in the Church and in the world.  He will be Jєωιѕн, from the tribe of Dan.  His life will ape the life of Christ.  He will be immensely charismatic, giving an appearance of holiness and humility, preaching a message of peace and unity to all the nations and performing great signs and wonders which will fool many. But the most clear sign of all is that he will be hailed by the Jews as their Messiah and installed in the rebuilt temple in Jerusalem.  Then he will reveal his true colours.

There are, in fact, plans to rebuild the temple in Jerusalem being drawn up right now.  Wouldn't it be ironic if, while Catholics are waiting for the Consecration of Russia to herald a 'time of peace', it is actually the Eastern Orthodox who recognise the Antichrist for who he really is?  

Meanwhile, why not read:

St Cyril of Jerusalem, 'Catechetical Lecture 15'
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/310115.htm

St Irenaeus, 'Against Heresies, Book V, Ch 30'
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103530.htm

One last thing, Nishant.  You state that Our Lord told the Fatima children that "Only She [Our Lady] can help you".  Is this Scriptural?  I don't think so.

 
Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: MyrnaM on October 06, 2014, 10:50:45 AM
Quote from: Nishant
Dear Myrna, we will come back to sedevacantism in a minute, but before that, please do tell me, because I am not sure, what precisely does the CMRI at Mt. St. Michael teach about the conversion of Russia and the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary? I mean their exact position. For example, that, Yes, it will certainly come, or that, No, we are already in the time of the last AntiChrist, or otherwise, something else altogether, like, Impossible to say for sure?


Their position is as the Church has always taught since the Fatima event, In the end her Immaulate Heart will reign,  CMRI does not go around saying when or how this will happen, we know it will happen.  We don't doubt God, as you do, Nishant, meaning... gee whiz we have no authority so God must have failed, or maybe the authority we are left with is what we deserve, a Protestant hierarchical system; better than nothing.  

Answer me, why does SSPX "hierarchy" want so much to be a part of the ConciLIAR church?  When we are called to leave the harlot, the prostitute who has intercourse with everyone, ecuмenical participation in other words; interfaith.  

CMRI believes nothing is impossible with God. We don't sit around and wring our hands and worry about events we have no control over, all we want to do is KEEP THE FAITH.  

Starting this week, Wed. is the start of the FATIMA conference, if we are told anything of great importance regarding the reign of Mary, I'll let you know, however CMRI is not in the business of making prophecies, like most faithful, everyone and I mean everyone lay people included,  might have an opinion but nothing will ever be stated as a definite from the pulpit.    

Title: CHASTISEMENT COMING
Post by: Francisco on October 07, 2014, 08:12:52 AM
Quote from: MyrnaM
Quote from: Nishant
Dear Myrna, we will come back to sedevacantism in a minute, but before that, please do tell me, because I am not sure, what precisely does the CMRI at Mt. St. Michael teach about the conversion of Russia and the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary? I mean their exact position. For example, that, Yes, it will certainly come, or that, No, we are already in the time of the last AntiChrist, or otherwise, something else altogether, like, Impossible to say for sure?


Their position is as the Church has always taught since the Fatima event, In the end her Immaulate Heart will reign,  CMRI does not go around saying when or how this will happen, we know it will happen.  We don't doubt God, as you do, Nishant, meaning... gee whiz we have no authority so God must have failed, or maybe the authority we are left with is what we deserve, a Protestant hierarchical system; better than nothing.  

Answer me, why does SSPX "hierarchy" want so much to be a part of the ConciLIAR church?  When we are called to leave the harlot, the prostitute who has intercourse with everyone, ecuмenical participation in other words; interfaith.  

CMRI believes nothing is impossible with God. We don't sit around and wring our hands and worry about events we have no control over, all we want to do is KEEP THE FAITH.  

Starting this week, Wed. is the start of the FATIMA conference, if we are told anything of great importance regarding the reign of Mary, I'll let you know, however CMRI is not in the business of making prophecies, like most faithful, everyone and I mean everyone lay people included,  might have an opinion but nothing will ever be stated as a definite from the pulpit.  


Nishant should be asking the Vatican II Church hierarchy, not the CMRI, about Fatima. As far as I know, the then Cardinal Ratzinger commented officially, that Fatima was an event concerning the past. JPII is said to have done the Consecration. Sister Lucy told Cardinal Padiraya, Bishop Michaelappa, Fr Pachecos and Carlos Evaristo that the Consecration was done.
Bishop Fellay is talking to Newrome with a view to reconciling with it. Why ask the CMRI? Ask him!