Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Calling Out Pete Vere:  (Read 23572 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Neil Obstat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18177
  • Reputation: +8277/-692
  • Gender: Male
Calling Out Pete Vere:
« Reply #90 on: June 05, 2014, 10:20:45 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: J.Paul

    Just trying not to clog up the thread, but here is another opportunity if you have overlooked anything.



    Thank you.  I did overlook something:  two close-parentheses in the following paragraph:

    Quote

    And just what "faith" is it, that he inspired them to "keep?"  Indifferentism? (Assisi I AND II)  Universal salvation?  (Under his watch the American bishops demanded priests to say "and for all" instead of "and for many" in the consecration of the wine at Mass, and he never did diddly SQUAT about it.)  Communion-in-the-hand?  

    That's a whole topic unto itself -- but the world's eyes were upon him for many years while he personally gave Communion ONLY on the tongue, even while other 'ministers' even in his presence gave it out in-the-hand.  All the while he   A)  never spoke about the abuse,  B)  never issued any directive to prevent it,  C)  never reprimanded anyone on planet earth for practicing it,  D)  never denounced any bishop anywhere who punished priests for refusing to give communion-in-the-hand (Fr. Schell in California was one of these, who lost his salary, pension, health insurance, apartment, access to the church and permission to say Mass, all because he would not give communion-in-the-hand.  And he was not the only one to lose all these things for that reason.)

    Additionally:  

    JPII managed to give the impression that he was 'traditional' to those who wanted to believe it, while he did nothing to defend tradition when bishops all over the world openly acted to destroy it.  You would have to have lived through this to know it happened because hardly anyone spoke about it.  While it was happening it was too unbelievable, that it was not possible to put it into words, but now we can look back at it with objectivity, if we dare.  Curiously, too many can't seem to manage this objectivity when they continue to defend the memory of JPII as if his pontificate was an example of holiness.  He may have been the Holy Father but his papacy wasn't a very good example of holiness.  And its effect on Poland has been disastrous.


    Poland -- Most providentially, just as I was typing this, I was playing a recording of a recent Fr. Hewko sermon, when he explains the effect of JPII on Poland:

    "...Jesus Christ founded His Church on Tradition, so that when any time comes, like at Vat.II when the pope and bishops go with a new doctrine, THEY are the ones schismatic.  They are the ones turning their back on Tradition and the Faith.  They are the ones that have fabricated a new religion.  And that defines our crisis now.  

    "We're not schismatic disobedient dissidents!  We haven't changed the Faith!  We want to be FAITHFUL to the religion of all time!  We want to be FAITHFUL to the Mass of all time!  And it is not we who have changed it, but it's modernist Rome and the conciliar church, and that's why we REJECT the conciliar church.  And we make WAR with the conciliar church, because it's taking, literally taking millions of souls to hell!  

    "Fr. Pfeiffer was recently in Poland, and an old priest, who is an exorcist told him:  MUSLIMS have tried to destroy Catholic Poland and they never succeeded.  They became stronger in the Faith, and fought -- the great Hussars [17th cent.] went to BATTLE against the Muslims, and WON, through Our Lady.  He said Communists have tried to destroy Catholic Poland [20th c.], and they never succeeded.  There were many martyrs.  The same could be said about Ukraine.  And also, the nαzιs tried to crush Poland [20th c.].  And he said, Poland always kept the Faith.  

    "But what made Poland fall?  What destroyed the Faith in Poland?  Pope John Paul II!  The pope of the conciliar church -- the pope who promoted false religious liberty, the false Newmass, the false doctrines and the new doctrines of the fabricated conciliar church.  And this conciliar church is persecuting Tradition.
    And that's why we're having Mass here, and it's also why the Society of St. Pius X has already gone over, by accepting the Doctrinal Declaration (AFD) and not fighting against that which undermines the complete Catholic Faith, they have gone over to the enemy.  And they're doing it in a muddled fashion, a seductive fashion, a deceitful fashion, as we all know, and these are all the works of the darkness.  That's how the devil works, in the darkness..."
    (25:33)

    Hear the rest (dur. 38:25) :
    http://www.mediafire.com/listen/m5udvviv2573hp6/Fr+D+Hewko%2C+5-18-14+Milton+ON.mp3


    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Neil Obstat

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 18177
    • Reputation: +8277/-692
    • Gender: Male
    Calling Out Pete Vere:
    « Reply #91 on: June 05, 2014, 10:27:12 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • .

    That should be a new thread.


    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline Ambrose

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3447
    • Reputation: +2429/-13
    • Gender: Male
    Calling Out Pete Vere:
    « Reply #92 on: June 06, 2014, 04:50:13 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Cantarella
    Quote from: Ambrose
    Quote from: Ferdinand
    Quote from: Sean Johnson

    Rome recognizes the validity of these episcopal consecrations as illicit (and therefore valid), but does not recognize the validity of Thuc bishops' priestly ordinations?


    It doesn't really matter what apostate "Rome" views as valid, now does it!

    In truth, if someone were to seriously question the CMRI consecrations they would certainly have to question the Liénart ordinations  :wink:


    You are right, and this slippery slope of questioning sacramental validity when the matter and form can be verified, along with no evidence of a contrary intention, is an evil rigorism and based in unsound and uncatholic principles.  


    False. This is not an evil rigorism. It is actually a matter of utter importance for a true Catholic. According to Canon Law, the only minister that can confect the sacrament of the Eucharist, is a validly ordained priest alone. This is true also for the sacraments of confirmation, penance, matrimony, and extreme unction.

    Sacramental validity is of utter importance and it is not to be taken lightly. No validly ordained clergy, not sacraments! Simple. Is someone receives Holy Communion from an invalidly ordained priest, he/she is certainly not eating Jesus. It defeats the whole purpose of the Faith and undermine the absolute need of the Sacraments.  



    So, it's ok to ignore sacramental theology in favor of pet opinions that support particular groups?
    The Council of Trent, The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Papal Teaching, The Teaching of the Holy Office, The Teaching of the Church Fathers, The Code of Canon Law, Countless approved catechisms, The Doctors of the Church, The teaching of the Dogmatic

    Offline Centroamerica

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2671
    • Reputation: +1684/-444
    • Gender: Male
    Calling Out Pete Vere:
    « Reply #93 on: June 06, 2014, 04:54:42 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Ambrose
    Quote from: Cantarella
    Quote from: Ambrose
    Quote from: Ferdinand
    Quote from: Sean Johnson

    Rome recognizes the validity of these episcopal consecrations as illicit (and therefore valid), but does not recognize the validity of Thuc bishops' priestly ordinations?


    It doesn't really matter what apostate "Rome" views as valid, now does it!

    In truth, if someone were to seriously question the CMRI consecrations they would certainly have to question the Liénart ordinations  :wink:


    You are right, and this slippery slope of questioning sacramental validity when the matter and form can be verified, along with no evidence of a contrary intention, is an evil rigorism and based in unsound and uncatholic principles.  


    False. This is not an evil rigorism. It is actually a matter of utter importance for a true Catholic. According to Canon Law, the only minister that can confect the sacrament of the Eucharist, is a validly ordained priest alone. This is true also for the sacraments of confirmation, penance, matrimony, and extreme unction.

    Sacramental validity is of utter importance and it is not to be taken lightly. No validly ordained clergy, not sacraments! Simple. Is someone receives Holy Communion from an invalidly ordained priest, he/she is certainly not eating Jesus. It defeats the whole purpose of the Faith and undermine the absolute need of the Sacraments.  



    So, it's ok to ignore sacramental theology in favor of pet opinions that support particular groups?


    And if one were to question the Liénart consecrations, one would have to seriously question the Rampolla consecrations (of which all bishops in America trace their lineage). Under such reckless scrutiny, the entire Church's apostolic lineage seems to have been invalidated because of Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ and the gates of Hell have prevailed...... :facepalm:
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...

    Offline Centroamerica

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2671
    • Reputation: +1684/-444
    • Gender: Male
    Calling Out Pete Vere:
    « Reply #94 on: June 06, 2014, 04:59:04 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Centroamerica
    Quote from: Ambrose
    Quote from: Cantarella
    Quote from: Ambrose
    Quote from: Ferdinand
    Quote from: Sean Johnson

    Rome recognizes the validity of these episcopal consecrations as illicit (and therefore valid), but does not recognize the validity of Thuc bishops' priestly ordinations?


    It doesn't really matter what apostate "Rome" views as valid, now does it!

    In truth, if someone were to seriously question the CMRI consecrations they would certainly have to question the Liénart ordinations  :wink:


    You are right, and this slippery slope of questioning sacramental validity when the matter and form can be verified, along with no evidence of a contrary intention, is an evil rigorism and based in unsound and uncatholic principles.  


    False. This is not an evil rigorism. It is actually a matter of utter importance for a true Catholic. According to Canon Law, the only minister that can confect the sacrament of the Eucharist, is a validly ordained priest alone. This is true also for the sacraments of confirmation, penance, matrimony, and extreme unction.

    Sacramental validity is of utter importance and it is not to be taken lightly. No validly ordained clergy, not sacraments! Simple. Is someone receives Holy Communion from an invalidly ordained priest, he/she is certainly not eating Jesus. It defeats the whole purpose of the Faith and undermine the absolute need of the Sacraments.  



    So, it's ok to ignore sacramental theology in favor of pet opinions that support particular groups?


    And if one were to question the Liénart consecrations, one would have to seriously question the Rampolla consecrations (of which all bishops in America trace their lineage). Under such reckless scrutiny, the entire Church's apostolic lineage seems to have been invalidated because of Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ and the gates of Hell have prevailed...... :facepalm:



    Meanwhile, while everyone was scrutinizing, Mons. Thuc was busy being manipulated and lied to while consecrating known non-Catholic ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs and having Mons Des Lauriers tell him he wasn't suppose to say Joahnes Paulo 2 in the rite of consecration of which no witnesses attended.
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...


    Offline Ferdinand

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 391
    • Reputation: +0/-1
    • Gender: Male
    Calling Out Pete Vere:
    « Reply #95 on: June 06, 2014, 08:25:53 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Centroamerica
    ...having Mons Des Lauriers tell him he wasn't suppose to say Joahnes Paulo 2 in the rite of consecration...


    While we agree Bishop Des Lauriers was right when advising the Archbishop, I am certain that the ABL consecrations are still valid even though he put an anti-pope's name in the rite of consecration.

    In all humility, I must admit that in my youth I believed Karol Józef Wojtyła was the pope.  

    Offline Ferdinand

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 391
    • Reputation: +0/-1
    • Gender: Male
    Calling Out Pete Vere:
    « Reply #96 on: June 06, 2014, 09:46:48 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Ferdinand
    Quote from: Centroamerica
    ...having Mons Des Lauriers tell him he wasn't suppose to say Joahnes Paulo 2 in the rite of consecration...


    While we agree Bishop Des Lauriers was right when advising the Archbishop, I am certain that the ABL consecrations are still valid even though he put an anti-pope's name in the rite of consecration.

    In all humility, I must admit that in my youth I believed Karol Józef Wojtyła was the pope.  


    Forgot to mention Centroamerica, I wouldn't question the validity of SSPX consecrations and ordinations because of the scandalous (and at times even unnatural) nature of some of the candidates.  Our consolation is that only a minority were such.

    Pax,
    Ferdinand

    Offline Centroamerica

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2671
    • Reputation: +1684/-444
    • Gender: Male
    Calling Out Pete Vere:
    « Reply #97 on: June 08, 2014, 10:59:56 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Ferdinand
    Quote from: Ferdinand
    Quote from: Centroamerica
    ...having Mons Des Lauriers tell him he wasn't suppose to say Joahnes Paulo 2 in the rite of consecration...


    While we agree Bishop Des Lauriers was right when advising the Archbishop, I am certain that the ABL consecrations are still valid even though he put an anti-pope's name in the rite of consecration.

    In all humility, I must admit that in my youth I believed Karol Józef Wojtyła was the pope.  


    Forgot to mention Centroamerica, I wouldn't question the validity of SSPX consecrations and ordinations because of the scandalous (and at times even unnatural) nature of some of the candidates.  Our consolation is that only a minority were such.

    Pax,
    Ferdinand



    I think you missed the point. I stated that about Mons. Thuc because it supports all the claims that he was not of sound mind during the consecrations. Only a speculation.
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...