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Author Topic: Bsp. Williamson: "Belief in N.O. Eucharistic Miracles Necessary for Holy Oils"  (Read 19768 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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  • I find this demand to be rather strange:
    Quote
    Make up your mind. Choose.

    Either you write in public, to all those people that you normally write to, that you have been wrong to deny the possibility of Eucharistic miracles at Novus Ordo Masses, and you quote several cases of such miracles which you now admit to have taken place. And you will have to persuade me that you sincerely mean what you write, and that you are not writing it just to deceive me. Judging by your past behavior that will be very difficult for you to do. And I have to remain the judge as to whether you may or may not have done it. And if you try any form of weaseling out of it, I will never again read an email of yours. Choose.

    Or you find yourself a bishop who agrees with you. How about Bishop Pfeiffer?

    In Christ,

    Bp. Williamson

    It does seem to indicate that Bishop Williamson would give him the Holy Oils if he were to publicly agree not only in the "possibility" that NO Eucharistic miracles have taken place but to cite "several case" where he admits that they HAD taken place.  I have to say this is bizarre, to make this a condition for receiving Holy Oils.  Who doesn't know that belief in miracles and private revelations is not obligatory?  If Bishop Williamson had other, deeper, problems with Father Hewko, that would be one thing ... but to fixate on something this trivial?

    Offline Meg

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  • Disagreements are 100% normal, an inevitable result of Original Sin.  God knew this so He appointed the Hierarchy and Magisterium to deal with them.  There’s no sin until there’s actual sin, souls are harmed.  Both Bp. W. and Fr. H. have taken it to the point where souls are being harmed.  They need to repent, deal with matter IN PRIVATE, and get on with it.  End of story. 

    How are souls being harmed exactly, and who is responsible, in your view? 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline SeanJohnson

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  • I find this demand to be rather strange:
    It does seem to indicate that Bishop Williamson would give him the Holy Oils if he were to publicly agree not only in the "possibility" that NO Eucharistic miracles have taken place but to cite "several case" where he admits that they HAD taken place.  I have to say this is bizarre, to make this a condition for receiving Holy Oils.  Who doesn't know that belief in miracles and private revelations is not obligatory?  If Bishop Williamson had other, deeper, problems with Father Hewko, that would be one thing ... but to fixate on something this trivial?

    You’re in a rut.  This has already been explained to you.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Incredulous

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  • The fact that Bishop Williamson still promotes Garabandal is baffling.  I understand that it was what converted him back when it was new, but now it is obvious that it is a false apparition.  Rejecting new mass miracles is the safer route, since were not obliged to believe private revelations.  As Ladislaus said, for them to be real, it would imply that God approves of the bogus ordo.

    Consider that both Fr. Hewko and Bp. Williamson were subjected to occult curses from a Santeria Warlock.

    1. Fr. Hewko was exposed to Cuban voodoo for 7 years. :facepalm:

    2. Bp. Williamson surely suffered an attack when he stayed at the Pfeiffer farm in 2013.
        (HE starts condoning the Novus ordo missae in the late Fall of 2015).
       
    3. Even Bp. Tissier was exposed to a Santeria malefice, when Pablo crashed his Chicago priory living quarters around 2015.

    Make no mistake. 
    Infiltration of traditional Catholic venues and Santeria curses are the only thing that makes the demonically inspired, Mexican warlock tick.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Meg

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  • Consider that both Fr. Hewko and Bp. Williamson were subjected to occult curses from a Santeria Warlock.

    1. Fr. Hewko was exposed to Cuban voodoo for 7 years. :facepalm:

    2. Bp. Williamson surely suffered an attack when he stayed at the Pfeiffer farm in 2013.
        (HE starts condoning the Novus ordo missae in the late Fall of 2015).
       
    3. Even Bp. Tissier was exposed to a Santeria malefice, when Pablo crashed his Chicago priory living quarters around 2015.

    Make no mistake. 
    Infiltration of traditional Catholic venues and Santeria curses are the only thing that makes the demonically inspired, Mexican warlock tick.


    Wasn't Fr. Chazal with Fr. Pfeiffer's group at one time? Maybe I'm not remembering that correctly. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline gladius_veritatis

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  • On Thursday, April 20, 2023, Bishop Williamson replies:

    Reverend,

    When you deny the genuinely scientific evidence in favor of miracles taking place at Novus Ordo Masses said by Novus Ordo priests consecrated by Novus Ordo bishops, such as happened in Sokolka, Poland, in 2008, you are not living in the same world or Church as I am.

    Please resort to any bishop who shares your own attitude towards reality. Please do not ask me again for Oils for as long as you are defying reality.


    With good wishes, in Christo,

    Bp. Williamson

    Nonsense.  All defense and rationalization of the above is absurd -- ALL "context" aside.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline Matthew

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  • Wasn't Fr. Chazal with Fr. Pfeiffer's group at one time? Maybe I'm not remembering that correctly.

    Don't get confused.


    Fr. Chazal calls his group the MC-SPX

    That name is superficially similar to what Fr. P called his group (SSPX-MC). But there is no connection.

    It was pointed out to him that this could confuse people. They both have "Marian Corps" in the name.
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    Offline Stubborn

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  • You’re in a rut.  This has already been explained to you.
    Sean, the OP shows that the reason Fr. Hewko wants the Holy Oil is for extreme unction: "Your Excellency, all I'm requesting are the basic tools for saving souls! Baptisms and Extreme Unctions cannot be given without Holy Oils (aside from emergency baptisms). Why would a differing opinion be an obstacle to receiving Holy Oils?"

    When a soul is in their last agony, even a heretical, excommunicated apostate priest who hates and always slanders +Williamson can validly administer Extreme Unction. All I will say, and I hate to say it, is +Williamson will be in big trouble with Our Lord if it ends up that a soul in need of the sacrament does not receive it due to his decision. 

    As greatly as I respect +Williamson, he is gravely wrong here. He just is.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline SeanJohnson

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  • Sean, the OP shows that the reason Fr. Hewko wants the Holy Oil is for extreme unction: "Your Excellency, all I'm requesting are the basic tools for saving souls! Baptisms and Extreme Unctions cannot be given without Holy Oils (aside from emergency baptisms). Why would a differing opinion be an obstacle to receiving Holy Oils?"

    When a soul is in their last agony, even a heretical, excommunicated apostate priest who hates and always slanders +Williamson can validly administer Extreme Unction. All I will say, and I hate to say it, is +Williamson will be in big trouble with Our Lord if it ends up that a soul in need of the sacrament does not receive it due to his decision. 

    As greatly as I respect +Williamson, he is gravely wrong here. He just is.

    The ends don’t justify the means.

    According to your rationale, every bishop is required to give oils to every priest who comes knocking, no matter what crazy and/or heretical positions he holds (eg., Pope Michael, or Palmar de Troya), simply because these renegades have duped some faithful.

    But giving such renegades oils only enables their poisoned ministry, and THAT is what a bishop needs to worry about (particularly when Hewko’s dupes have many other priests from whom they can receive extreme unction, but choose not to).  If they choose to exclude all those priests because of Hewko’s indoctrination, that’s on them, not Williamson.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SeanJohnson

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  • From a former Hewkonian:

    22.  As we have been manipulated by Fathers Pfeiffer and  Hewko to think of and label Bishop Williamson and his flock of faithful sheep as the “fake and false Resistance”, the damage has been great to the Catholic Resistance at large.  The terms “fake and false Resistance” were devised in order to control the faithful in a propaganda campaign against the Bishop Williamson enemies of the so called “true Resistance”.  We have been deceived and divided by what can be argued as a personal battle between the leaders of Boston, Kentucky and their adherents with those who follow Bishop Williamson as their leader.  This has been devastating to the Resistance fight for the Catholic Faith. When will Father Hewko do the right thing, and repair the damage that he has caused?”

    https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/problems-questions-and-considerations-regarding-fr-hewko/ 
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Stubborn

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  • The ends don’t justify the means.

    According to your rationale, every bishop is required to give oils to every priest who comes knocking, no matter what crazy and/or heretical positions he holds (eg., Pope Michael, or Palmar de Troya), simply because these renegades have duped some faithful.

    But giving such renegades oils only enables their poisoned ministry, and THAT is what a bishop needs to worry about (particularly when Hewko’s dupes have many other priests from whom they can receive extreme unction, but choose not to).  If they choose to exclude all those priests because of Hewko’s indoctrination, that’s on them, not Williamson.
    No, that is not at all my rationale and you're allegiance to +Williamson is clouding clear thinking. Do you think Fr. Hewko is going to sell it or use the Holy Oil for frying fish or quieting a squeaky wheel? Of course not - there is no good reason to withhold it, certainly not the reason +Williamson gave, there is only good reason to give it.

    It is only if +Williamson suspected the Holy Oil would in some way be misused would he be justified in withholding it - and he should say what that reason is. But with the way things are in this day and age, +Williamson is just plain wrong. 

    If it were you (or one of yours) who needed the sacrament and Fr. Hewko was the only priest who could get to you, guaranteed you'd be singing a different tune - in the next world.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline SeanJohnson

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  • No, that is not at all my rationale and you're allegiance to +Williamson is clouding clear thinking. 

    A gratuitous post which ignores the substance of my response.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Stubborn

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  • A gratuitous post which ignores the substance of my response.
    No, what I said answers directly your response, otoh, you are blinding yourself for the sake of defending the good bishop whom *we all* care deeply for.

    You're lumping of Fr. Hewko as a renegade priest is irrelevant, even tho I agree he's a renegade, he is still a priest and can save a dying soul - IF he has the holy oil to do it.

     
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline SeanJohnson

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  • No, what I said answers directly your response, otoh, you are blinding yourself for the sake of defending the good bishop whom *we all* care deeply for.

    You're lumping of Fr. Hewko as a renegade priest is irrelevant, even tho I agree he's a renegade, he is still a priest and can save a dying soul - IF he has the holy oil to do it.

    In your first sentence, you simply repeat your gratuitous contention.

    In your second sentence, you ignore my post (three posts up) again.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Ladislaus

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  • You’re in a rut.  This has already been explained to you.

    Your "explanation" was clearly false.  Here Bishop Williamson explicitly states that he would give him the Holy Oils on the condition that he publicly came out and assented to the legitimacy of "several" NO "Eucharistic miracles".  There are no other conditions laid out.