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Author Topic: BREAKING: Archbishop Viganò Summoned to Vatican Tribunal on Charge of Schism  (Read 28572 times)

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You say that it is a masterclass of deceit that I present you as disrespecting the traditional order, while I reject the traditional order.

But.....Sedevacantist doctrine is not part of the traditional order. It never has been. Sedevacantist doctrine is a novelty, and therefore not binding on anyone.

You set yourself up as a priest or bishop would - as the final arbiter of what is Catholic, and you believe your pronouncements as binding on all who hear or read them. Since when is it "traditional" for a layman to bind anyone? Well, in the Church of Vatican ll, the layman is God, and it is laymen who will save us. Our Lord only has a secondary role in our salvation, in the Church of Vatican ll. You have that in common with the Modernists.
The so-called sedevacantist doctrine is just the Catholic belief in the papacy.

I'm not setting myself up as anything and even if I was an independent bishop my words wouldn't be binding as you seem to think (you may as well be Orthodox, they have the most bishops who don't submit to the Pope like you).

How you can continue to disingenuously present this as if I am speaking of my own authority and not merely repeating Church teaching is really an indictment of your bad will.

Who gave you, a lay woman, the authority to reject approved liturgical rites?

Who gave you, a lay woman, the authority to reject an ecuмenical council?

Who gave you, a lay woman, the authority to reject solemnly promulgated canon law?

Who gave you, a lay woman, the authority to reject the governing authority of the Supreme Pontiff?

You are condemned out of your own mouth.

Offline Mark 79

  • Supporter
The so-called sedevacantist doctrine is just the Catholic belief in the papacy.

I'm not setting myself up as anything and even if I was an independent bishop my words wouldn't be binding as you seem to think (you may as well be Orthodox, they have the most bishops who don't submit to the Pope like you).

How you can continue to disingenuously present this as if I am speaking of my own authority and not merely repeating Church teaching is really an indictment of your bad will.

Who gave you, a lay woman, the authority to reject approved liturgical rites?

Who gave you, a lay woman, the authority to reject an ecuмenical council?

Who gave you, a lay woman, the authority to reject solemnly promulgated canon law?

Who gave you, a lay woman, the authority to reject the governing authority of the Supreme Pontiff?

You are condemned out of your own mouth.
Nailed it –BUT— There are none so blind as those who will not see.


Offline Meg

The so-called sedevacantist doctrine is just the Catholic belief in the papacy.

It is in reality a novel and distorted view of the papacy. 

The Sede vs. R&R debate has no end.

I am not a fan of either. Both seem somewhat unsatisfactory to me.

Will I be condemned if I don't pick one?

By men surely, on both sides of the fence, but I don't think that the good Lord will close the doors to Heaven if I don't make a clear and final decision on this matter.



The Sede vs. R&R debate has no end.

I am not a fan of either. Both seem somewhat unsatisfactory to me.

Will I be condemned if I don't pick one?

By men surely, on both sides of the fence, but I don't think that the good Lord will close the doors to Heaven if I don't make a clear and final decision on this matter.
Here's a detailed definition of schism that should clear up any doubts. Notice the underlined parts.

Quote
The sense and the scope of schism. The requirement for determining at law the delict of pure schism is: I. that someone withdraw from the sphere of authority [obedientia] of the Roman Pontiff and separate himself from the ecclesiastical communion of the other faithful, either directly or expressly or indirectly or with implicit or tacit consent [factis concludentibus], even if he may not attach himself to a separated schismatic sect; — II. that the withdrawal be connected with pertinacity or rebellion; — III. that the withdrawal be done with respect to those things on which the unity of the Church is founded; — IV. notwithstanding formal disobedience and denial of being subordinate, that the schismatic acknowledge that the aforementioned Roman Pontiff is the true pastor of the universal Church and that obedience must be offered to him in accordance with the teaching of the faith: but if he says [the Pope] is not [the true pastor of the universal Church], heresy will be added as an ingredient to schism.
Wherefore the delict of schism, in the strict sense, is not committed by him who withdraws from his own bishop and from the communion of the faithful of his own diocese, but [by him who] refuses to be under the Roman Pontiff and to be in communion with the rest of the faithful of the universal Church. Nor is someone determined to be a schismatic by means of a simple transgression of pontifical law; otherwise, all violators of universal ecclesiastical laws would also prove to be schismatics — something that is plainly absurd. Finally, those cannot be regarded as schismatics who refuse to obey a Roman Pontiff because they are suspicious of his person or because of unfavorable reports [rumores] spread abroad that [he] was doubtfully elected, as happened after the election of Urban VI, or [those who] may resist him as a civil ruler and not as shepherd of the Church.
(Francis X. Wernz and Peter Vidal, Ius Canonicuм, vol. VII [Rome: Gregorian University, 1937], p. 439)

The conclusion is obvious. Hope it helps!