Author Topic: Modern Science and the SSPX  (Read 9443 times)

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Offline Stanley N

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Re: Modern Science and the SSPX
« Reply #210 on: November 13, 2018, 12:20:51 AM »
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  • Curious that they omit that St. Thomas said otherwise.


    Footnote 2 from the article where you take the quote says this regarding it: "Although the Magisterium has never ruled definitively on the question of animal death before the Fall, St. Augustine is the only Church Father whose writings on Genesis have been preserved who believed that animals practiced carnivory before the Fall.  All of the other Fathers held that animal death did not begin until after the Original Sin."
    Yes, I read the footnote. Don't you find it curious that they omit mentioning the Angelic Doctor here?

    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Modern Science and the SSPX
    « Reply #211 on: November 13, 2018, 08:17:45 AM »
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  • Is there an English edition?  Looks like a great book.
    I didn't realize it was sold out from the Amazon link I posted.
    Try this, it has a link at end of article. Guess I'm lucky to own the book.
    www.jesusmariasite.org/crombette-if-the-world-only-knew/


    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Modern Science and the SSPX
    « Reply #212 on: November 13, 2018, 10:28:58 AM »
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  • Yes, I read the footnote. Don't you find it curious that they omit mentioning the Angelic Doctor here?
    Assuming that what you say is true, it does seem a bit curious, although it should be noted that Aquinas, of course, was so often in agreement with Augustine, citing him so frequently in the process.  Can you tell me where exactly is your Aquinas reference on this particular issue?   I would like to check it out.

    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Modern Science and the SSPX
    « Reply #213 on: November 14, 2018, 07:07:50 PM »
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  • Quote
    Quote
    and all creatures were initially vegetarian, since animal death was the result of the fall.
    Curious that they omit that St. Thomas said otherwise.
    Where exactly is it that St. Thomas says otherwise?

    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Modern Science and the SSPX
    « Reply #214 on: November 14, 2018, 07:46:47 PM »
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  • Where exactly is it that St. Thomas says otherwise?
    Summa Theologica, 1, 96, 1 ad 2
    Quote
    In the opinion of some, those animals which now are fierce and kill others, would, in that state [of innocence], have been tame, not only in regard to man, but also in regard to other animals. But this is quite unreasonable. For the nature of animals was not changed by man's sin, as if those whose nature now it is to devour the flesh of others, would then have lived on herbs, as the lion and falcon. Nor does Bede's gloss on Genesis 1:30 say that trees and herbs were given as food to all animals and birds, but to some. Thus there would have been a natural antipathy between some animals. They would not, however, on this account have been excepted from the mastership of man: as neither at present are they for that reason excepted from the mastership of God, Whose Providence has ordained all this. Of this Providence man would have been the executor, as appears even now in regard to domestic animals, since fowls are given by men as food to the trained falcon.


    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Modern Science and the SSPX
    « Reply #215 on: November 16, 2018, 09:28:41 AM »
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  • Online cassini

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    Re: Modern Science and the SSPX
    « Reply #216 on: November 16, 2018, 03:49:54 PM »
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  • Thank you!

    I agree. God created all 'in their whole substance' in the beginning. How many creatures are 100% carnivores? Many, like certain whales, birds of prey, spiders, etc., are designed internally to consume only living creatures. The alternative is to have them evolve from vegitarians to carnivores after Original Sin. We don't need that theology, do we?

    On the other hand, the law of thermodynamics is probably a result of Original Sin.

    Saint Paul tells us ‘all creation groans and travails in pain until now.’ (Rom. 8:22)

    Thus the sun and stars burn out and man made buildings decay over time.

    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Modern Science and the SSPX
    « Reply #217 on: November 17, 2018, 08:42:58 PM »
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  • I agree. 
    So we agree the Kolbe center teaches contrary to St. Thomas, and does not say so.
    This is not from some obscure work of St. Thomas, nor a comment in an unrelated part of the Summa. This is from the part of the Summa on creation. This is something any moderately informed Catholic should know before writing about creation.


    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Modern Science and the SSPX
    « Reply #218 on: November 18, 2018, 08:03:06 PM »
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  • So we agree the Kolbe center teaches contrary to St. Thomas, and does not say so.
    This is not from some obscure work of St. Thomas, nor a comment in an unrelated part of the Summa. This is from the part of the Summa on creation. This is something any moderately informed Catholic should know before writing about creation.

    It appears that you are attempting to smear the Kolbe Center, but you do so by assuming a fact not in evidence, i.e., that KC did not know about St. Thomas' view before they wrote about what they did.

    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Modern Science and the SSPX
    « Reply #219 on: November 19, 2018, 10:31:04 AM »
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  • It appears that you are attempting to smear the Kolbe Center, but you do so by assuming a fact not in evidence, i.e., that KC did not know about St. Thomas' view before they wrote about what they did.
    Either they knew, or the didn't. If they didn't, they should have, as I argued above.

    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Modern Science and the SSPX
    « Reply #220 on: November 19, 2018, 11:32:47 AM »
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  • Either they knew, or the didn't. If they didn't, they should have, as I argued above.


    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Modern Science and the SSPX
    « Reply #221 on: November 25, 2018, 07:31:55 PM »
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  • On the other hand, the law of thermodynamics is probably a result of Original Sin.

    Saint Paul tells us ‘all creation groans and travails in pain until now.’ (Rom. 8:22)

    Thus the sun and stars burn out and man made buildings decay over time.
    The stars "burn out" by nuclear reactions. In what way would nuclear reactions be different without original sin?

    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Modern Science and the SSPX
    « Reply #222 on: February 14, 2019, 10:42:36 AM »
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  • .
    Pope Pius XII did a dangerous thing when he left open the door for Catholics to believe in evolution.
    .
    The bottom line is that evolution always has as its primary goal, to undermine the dogma of original sin.
    Not to believe it, but to discuss it, which, of course, was bad enough!

     

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