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Author Topic: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei  (Read 58763 times)

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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
« Reply #200 on: January 29, 2019, 09:46:05 PM »
Quote
You have read nothing.  Your entire reason is subjected to a perverse will.
This is just uncalled for.  We’re trying to have a discussion and you’re calling people perverse?  Bad will?  Maybe you’re right and we’re totally wrong but did you ever stop to think that your EXPLANATIONS are lacking or aren’t perfect?  Is there ANY way, in ANY SMALL degree, you could be wrong, or are you infallible?  Or is everyone perverse who disagrees with you?  It’s not like we’re making fun of you’re view; we’re asking intelligent questions. Golly whiz, take a chill pill.  

Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
« Reply #201 on: January 29, 2019, 09:48:27 PM »
CIC 1917, Canon 1257:



Until you can demonstrate that the form of the Sacred Liturgy was indeed altered in the 1962 revision of the Tridentine Rite, you have no grounds to resist anything.

I do not have to demonstrate this.  It is established fact by Pope John Paul II making the 1962 Missal an Indult and by Pope Benedict XVI making it a grant of legal privilege declaring it possessing an identical 'lex orandi, lex credendi' with the 1969 Bugnini Missal and making its use conditional upon accepting the entire legitimacy of the Bugnini liturgical reform and that Vatican II contains no doctrinal errors.  This being the case, it is impossible that the Bugnini transitional Missal of 1962 could be the "received and approved" Roman rite of immemorial tradition.
 
I do not know how to make the argument any simpler for you.


Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
« Reply #202 on: January 29, 2019, 10:04:49 PM »
I don't have more time but I remember obvious errors. Listen to Fr. de Pauw.

Pope Pius V promulgated the Tridentine Liturgy in 1570. It was used in the Latin West until 1962. The Pope himself calls it a "new" rite in Quo Primum bull, even though the intention was restoring the Roman Missal "to the original form and rite of the holy Fathers". The fact that there exists a pre-Tridentine Mass before the Tridentine Mass is evidence that changes, modifications, and revisions of the original Mass in Aramaic and Greek, indeed occurred. You can blind yourself to historical realities; but when you deny reality, it automatically works against you.

Quo Primum, 4:
Quote
This new rite alone is to be used unless approval of the practice of saying Mass differently was given at the very time of the institution and confirmation of the church by Apostolic See at least 200 years ago, or unless there has prevailed a custom of a similar kind which has been continuously followed for a period of not less than 200 years, in which most cases We in no wise rescind their above-mentioned prerogative or custom.

Did the Pope make a complete liturgical innovation out of thin air? of course not. Undeniably, the substance of the Eucharist cannot ever be changed because Christ Himself instituted the Sacrament. That part alone is what is unchangeable until the end of time and what you can call "immemorial" because it is of Divine origin.

Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
« Reply #203 on: January 29, 2019, 10:40:33 PM »
Your appeal to Dogma does not work in your favor. The Council of Trent declared concerning "the power of the Church as regards the dispensation of the Sacraments of the Eucharist"

Council of Trent, Session 21, Chapter 2
The introduction, approval, and modification of liturgical rites does belong to the Church, so long as the substance is not changed.

That's on the power of the Church as regards the dispensation of the sacrament of the Eucharist. I don't see a problem. You seem to have a problem with session 7, canon XIII.

You still insist on the first part of  reply # 189  that: "[Session 7,]Canon XIII does not include the Supreme Pontiff, of course!".

https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/a-step-for-the-regularization-of-the-sspx-dissolution-of-ecclesia-dei/msg641619/#msg641619

You have been corrected about that several times.
Here:
https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/is-father-ringrose-dumping-the-r-r-crowd/msg604850/#msg604850
and here:
https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/is-father-ringrose-dumping-the-r-r-crowd/msg604807/#msg604807

By the way, the bottom of the second link includes one of the previous replies regarding Mediator Dei.





Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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Re: A Step for the Regularization of the SSPX? - Dissolution of Ecclesia Dei
« Reply #204 on: January 29, 2019, 10:49:51 PM »
Pope Pius V promulgated the Tridentine Liturgy in 1570. It was used in the Latin West until 1962. The Pope himself calls it a "new" rite in Quo Primum bull, even though the intention was restoring the Roman Missal "to the original form and rite of the holy Fathers". The fact that there exists a pre-Tridentine Mass before the Tridentine Mass is evidence that changes, modifications, and revisions of the original Mass in Aramaic and Greek, indeed occurred. You can blind yourself to historical realities; but when you deny reality, it automatically works against you.

Quo Primum, 4:
Did the Pope make a complete liturgical innovation out of thin air? of course not. Undeniably, the substance of the Eucharist cannot ever be changed because Christ Himself instituted the Sacrament. That part alone is what is unchangeable until the end of time and what you can call "immemorial" because it is of Divine origin.

You still have not listened to Fr. de Pauw. It will do you good. About him: http://www.latinmass-ctm.org/about/ourleader/leader.htm

Video link:
https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/a-step-for-the-regularization-of-the-sspx-dissolution-of-ecclesia-dei/msg641598/#msg641598