Author Topic: Bishop Paul Morgan giving the reasons for the consecration of Resistance bishops (Read 5436 times)

Mr G · « **on:** November 27, 2023, 05:14:56 PM »

A video of a conference in French of Bishop Paul Morgan giving the reasons for the consecration of Resistance bishops, and answering objections.

Les trois derniers sacres de Mgr Williamson. Pourquoi ? – Gloria.tv

Plenus Venter · « **Reply #1 on:** November 27, 2023, 05:29:45 PM »

Bishop Paul Morgan, probably Sept 29, 2023,
It is a great pleasure to be here with you, and to have these
events here at St. Aignan. A big thank you to Fr. Salenave for the
very special invitation for the Feast, so... of St. Michael...the
benediction of this very magnificent statue, complete with
Pontifical Mass at "the throne", and joining in the pilgrimage to
Mount St. Michel...all these beautiful and grandiose events.
It is a great encouragement, a great joy to meet again. Fr.
Salenave, Fr, Pivert, the community near Chateauroux, Fr.de Meraud
who comes from far away, from Lourdes...we were together way back,
in Econe, and time has passed... we are again together in this
small village de Mayenne which is a big surprise!, but Providence
mysteriously arranges things. Clear as that.
And dear faithful, thank you for coming so numerous. To come here
after a long week, at 20:00h on a Friday night, it's not the ideal
time to commit yourselves, no doubt after a long work week...I
extend my felicitations for this occasion, for the pilgrimage, and
I ask for your support and your prayers for the Good Combat for
the Faith...no more no less.
Fr Salenave who has done so much to this house...we saw it at the
very beginning three or four years ago; it was a house with, how
do we say it? "Much potential" as the realtors speak; so much
accomplished with the support and participation of the faithful. A
huge appreciation and felicitation for that.
As Fr. Salenave mentioned, we could begin these few words, this
conference, I could tell the faithful that it is not the
conferences, not even the instructions...it's all the table
talks...It's like that, more or less. Sometimes the faithful in
Belgium say: 'But Father, you tell us it will last 40 minutes but
you are still speaking after 2 hours!! You have Irish roots'. It's
true, really. My great-grandmother was Irish. They say that: the
Irish have the "Gift of the Gab", so sorry if I abuse your
patience but...All's good!
To begin: some Objections regarding the recent consecrations. Fr.
Salenave, if I am here before you, vested as a bishop, what is
going on? Voila.
First objection. And the objections are actually reasonable.
First objection: It is not normal to do the consecrations in
secret. Actually reasonable as an objection. And the answer, to
put it succinctly is, during NORMAL times, it is not reasonable,
nor justifiable, nor even permitted to do consecrations in secret.
And then the question arises: "Are we in Normal Times right now?"
Everyone, together...will simply answer: NO!...with globalism, the
force of Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ, the strong hand persecuting the Good God,
the Church, the Christian family, marriage, the natural law etc.
and the geo-political situation has drastically deteriorated since
the consecrations of Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre in 1988, also
adding Covid, the isolation, the pursuit by the authorities...with
Covid, we already had four, and some came close to death as Msgr.
Faure, who is older now, Msgr. Williamson too, more tired with
ageing; and another Covid which perhaps tomorrow we might be

experiencing, and lock-downs, but a novel threat, the Ecological
Narrative is looming. Between now and the end of the year, the
United Nations, with the immense conference/sessions are talking
about changes ( you can find this on BBC and others, so usually
you can't accept the media, but when the BBC report such things
that oppose us- they are facts). Regarding Food, Transportation,
Energy and Work, because things are so dire that we cannot
continue as before, so governments must impose new measures...Time
will tell. We must act with prudence in such complicated times...
Covid made us understand that all-the-more. So the idea to do a
few private consecrations, in secret, moreover in the 3 cases,(my
consecration was done privately), was to have a "Spare Tire".
Look! In your car you have a spare tire, (but now in some newer
models you don't have a spare wheel...but some sort of kit so if
you breakdown, you use the kit and after twenty kilometers you
must get help...) But in earlier times, the spare tire was there
for times of accidents, a flat tire, worn out tires etc. and when
you take a trip, travel long trips, not having a spare tire is not
very prudent. Given this special time, very complicated, very
unstable, very dangerous, we think it is permitted to do
extraordinary things for the good of the Church and souls, no more
no less. No inkling to begin a parallel Church, a parallel
hierarchy with bishops having territory and ordinary jurisdiction:
none whatsoever. Auxiliary bishops, as spare tires. No if’s.
And this brings us to the second point, in order to make this
public; but we insist that Archbishop Lefebvre, in 1988, told the
four bishops: 'When Rome returns really Catholic, you must place
or submit your episcopate in the Pope's hands, and saying': 'Holy
Father, this is how it was done, this is why it was done; do with
us what seems convenient to you. If to send us to missions in
Africa, or to serve a nun's convent at the North Pole, or simple
priest to a monastery...very good, so be it...' the day when a
real Catholic pope reigns in Rome.
Second objection: "All that is done in secret comes from the
devil." Now you recognize St. Ignatius when he says this sentence
for the discernment of spirits, for the Ignatian retreats. And
again, here you have to make distinctions on what St. Ignatius is
trying to say: When things are initially evil and done in secret,
(these) are evil. For example, if a thief robs a house, he will
prefer to do this at night - to avoid being caught, to have more
liberty, and leave with the stolen goods. But we have to discern
between EVIL things done in secret vs. GOOD things done in secret.
Our Lord spoke: When you pray, go to your room, pray to your
Father in heaven in secret. Exactly to avoid being hypocrite with
a great public manifestation that you are praying...pray in
secret. In English speaking countries, certainly before the
Council, those who converted and came to the Catholic Church, it
was OBLIGATORY, OBLIGATORY, that all who came from Protestantism
to the Catholic Church would be baptised, conditionally, in
private; meaning the priest and the converted went to the
sacristy. Was this evil? Of course not because it was a good
thing, but done in private, in secret...for such and such a

reason. Also, regarding marriages: occurring during solemn times,
are done in the sacristy, were done in the sacristy. Therefore in
private you see. (During Lent or Advent, you can always get
married, providing there is no grand solemnity.) To show that we
actually have to distinguish between good and evil things.
Third Objection: Why reveal this secret or these secrets now?
Spare tire in the boot, hidden in the car, Okay! So why make it
public now? Really, it wasn't planned to make it public. In my
case, honestly, I was hoping to have a quiet life...maybe not a
noble sentiment, not too generous, but regardless...Voila. The
reason it was made public, with the great sentiments of the
persons concerned, is that the secret had been confided to very
few...because if we have a spare tire in the boot, and if nobody
knows there is one, and in case of an accident, or a flat, it
would be quite useless. But the gist of it is that the secret was
not well kept, for various reasons. Remember dear faithful,
reverend Fathers, how, when Our Lord would perform certain
miracles on the possessed, for the lepers and other miracles, He
would say: 'Say nothing to anyone'; isn't that so? 'Go pray in the
temple' etc., and then those persons went and would shout: 'I've
been cured! I've been cured! It was Our Lord! It was a miracle!'
Secrets not very well guarded, very simply.
It goes without saying that this secret was revealed little by
little. You know the definition of "secret", right?...it is a
confidence that we tell one person at a time. "It's a secret,
shhh, a secret..." Tell me Fathers, isn't that how it is? Don't
believe everything on the internet. It quite an easy answer and
practical. Certain ones, maybe, talked too much, released their
secret out of enthusiasm, maybe out of weakness, others
disapproved. 'Hey! what's going on? Having bishops in the
abstract, yes. Okay. But not in practice...maybe this one; or you
could do this...No no!' Voila. It's possible. Yet others might
have been tempted to do a journalistic "Scoop". 'See! see!...you
know, I will publish this before anyone else...buy my paper!'
Plus, maybe others just desired to discredit the events, who
knows. The consecrations, Msgr. Williamson said, that because now
people are talking about it obviously the secret was not very well
kept; instead of discrediting the events, better to credit it
publicly, with solemnity, while the consecrators themselves are
living; evidently Msgr. Williamson principally, Msgr. Ballini co-
consecrator, that is to say in Ireland, at the beginning of last
year. Voilà, very simply.
Now it is a new visible body. You know you have 4 x 4 vehicles for
displacement, (then) "Spare Tire", and now it hangs on the
exterior of the vehicle, so there you have it simply...Msgr. Spare
Tire, very good! (ha ha)
Fourth Objection: There are already enough bishops in the so-
called Resistance. There's talk like that. In fact, we are in a
much happier situation than the Fraternity which is somewhat
stifled concerning the question of bishops because the Fraternity
will do things now with 'Accords', with authorisations, with
permissions, and so forth, so voilà. Therefore four bishops, it is

true, were sufficient before Covid, but during Covid we nearly
lost Msgr. Faure, in a coma, very sick, but thanks to God's grace
he recovered...but still tired now. Msgr. Williamson, aged 83
years, is not so young, and Covid tormented him. Somewhat like
Msgr. Lefebvre who thought of consecrating bishops when he was how
old?..79, 80?. you can check the Archbishop's biography...in his
eighties...In 1987 he announced. It is therefore prudent to have
two, three of our courageous bishops in the wings, just in case
two or three bishops need to be replaced perhaps, so this isn't
unreasonable. Msgr. Thomas Aquinas, very courageous, doesn't have
a strong health, for sure because of the Monastery, in Brazil; to
plan, eventually, the replacements of two or three bishops with
two, three young ones, (but not always the case)...two or three
new bishops sounds reasonable. And when I am told: 'There are just
as many bishops (in the Resistance) now as you have priests
'...that's not the case at all...it's not the case.
Very good then.
Fifth Objection: Well! But bishops of the SSPX should suffice;
there is no need to consecrate more bishops.
In fact they reproach us: 'Yes! those consecrations weren't
needed, not justified because there is no case of necessity.
Therefore they were illicit etc. etc. It is clear. they will say
this since they are not agreeing with our position of remaining
firm and solid in the combat for the Faith. An example among
others, of Msgr. Lefebvre, dealing with the popes, for sure. So we
cannot say YES. We would tempt Providence, as we are not planning
for the future; we wait till the SSPX is our helper. It is not
realistic! Simply because, unfortunately, they have chosen new
orientations, concerning very important things - evidently...This
is why we are here.
Sixth Objection: Perhaps have recourse to the conservative bishops
who love us.
So the same answers apply to those bishops who love us more,
because even if those bishops respect tradition, respect the good
mass, etc. two questions arise about these so-called
"conservatives", - they remain very attached to the Conciliar
Church, nor have they renounced the Conciliar errors on a personal
level. Furthermore, there is the question about their consecration
too. You have seen the recent study published by the Dominicans of
Avrille; Father Calderon; showing that there are questions raised
regarding each sacrament of the modern Church. It doesn't mean
that everything is invalid, but nevertheless they are
questionable. So there! It is true that Msgr. Vigano, very
courageous, renounced the error of the Conciliar Church etc.; Msgr
Vigano has impressed us a great deal, a good bishop, but he is 83
years old...and we mustn't wait for the impossible.
Seventh Objection: Isn't it schismatic to make bishops without the
accord of Rome?
So, during normal times. Msgr. Lefebvre explained this very well,
that Rome is so occupied with those who destroy the Church, we

must combat the errors, these modernist errors. It is true that in
1987-1988 Msgr. Lefebvre took steps to receive authorisation from
Rome but didn't receive it. He said later on, that if he was to
redo the consecrations, he wouldn't seek authorisation from Rome
because they are too deep, different language, occupied by
modernist /liberalism. Voilà.
When one day they tell us, maybe, the SSPX, "See! You didn't even
ask authorisation from Rome!" Well yes. Because Msgr. Lefebvre
told us not to do that."It is similar to wartime, and suffering in
an occupied country..., it is like we would write a letter: 'Dear
Occupying General of the Enemy: Permit me...may I have your
authorisation to form a small army which will oppose you, fight
you...?' That is downright crazy! Folly really, to ask for
authorisation for whatever reason, in time of occupation.
Again I repeat: We continue for the good of souls, for the
sacraments, teaching, absolutely no inventing of novelties,
neither a parallel Church, evidently there is no salvation outside
the Catholic Church etc. So this was the line of Msgr Lefebvre,
ours too at present. And to those who reproach us for the
consecrations, isn't it also somewhat their own history? Precisely
because of that they can perhaps make a call (referee Ed.) in all
this.
'So if this was the introduction, what will the conference look
like!!?' you will say. You have two minutes to leave using the
side doors. Voila.
I am leaving a few small souvenir cards of these consecrations;
Msgr. Ballini, so it was planned that his consecration would, with
time, become public, but because of the conditions of Covid, it
wasn't possible to make this for the general public, we shouldn't
give too many details, just as today we can't give too many
details (gobm't might do a Boris Johnson in London...during
lockdown you celebrated/partied your birthday? ! etc )
Msgr. Michal Stobnicki (May), in Poland, quite a unique situation
there, a good number of priests wishing to associate with
Tradition and want to be ordained conditionally, and it was a
private ceremony attended by about forty faithful. There it wasn't
so private because the faithful were present, but a modest
gathering, simply because their numbers aren't huge. So you see.
Voila!
Translated from a video in French:
https://gloria.tv/post/B233KrbVmdBu2rX36ZRny2g8x#400

Horatius · « **Reply #2 on:** December 01, 2023, 04:22:38 PM »

This seems like a very polite response to Bp. Zendejas' claim that secret things are from the devil.

I would have thought that everybody in the Resistance would have welcomed Bp. Morgan with open arms; there is hardly anything in the man that one could criticise.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #3 on:** December 01, 2023, 04:53:12 PM »

Has it gotten to the point where there are almost more bishops than there are priests serving the faithful? ... one "in every garage", as Father Cekada might say?

Plenus Venter · « **Reply #4 on:** December 01, 2023, 08:29:09 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on December 01, 2023, 04:53:12 PM

Has it gotten to the point where there are almost more bishops than there are priests serving the faithful? ... one "in every garage", as Father Cekada might say?

I would happily take a few more. Seven bishops in the whole world, on the brink of a diabolical communist-style persecution, is barely enough. We have Bishops Williamson and Faure, both in their mid 80s, Bishop Thomas Aquinas who is a monk and does not enjoy good health, then Bishops Zendejas, Ballini, Stobniki and Morgan. The numbers are similar to what Archbishop Lefebvre provided. Given that the Resistance faithful are scattered throughout the world, even though they are relatively few, the workload for the bishops remains very high. But these bishops are not only required to provide the sacraments for the faithful, but above all in this crisis to preach the truth and ensure the continuation of the priesthood and the Church. Sadly, the neo-SSPX bishops who have made themselves so dependent upon the enemies in Rome, can no longer be counted on to fulfill this duty that Archbishop Lefebvre bequeathed to them.

Horatius · « **Reply #5 on:** December 02, 2023, 05:40:40 AM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on December 01, 2023, 04:53:12 PM

Has it gotten to the point where there are almost more bishops than there are priests serving the faithful? ... one "in every garage", as Father Cekada might say?

When the next quarantine comes, I think we will find that the current bishops, even though there be one in "every garage," will find it hard if not impossible to reach all of the faithful needing Sacraments. This thing that people say about there being too many bishops is a strange way to dismiss certain churchmen. As if the number of priests or bishops itself actually mattered and wasn't apportioned to the dictates of the apostolate.

Put it this way, if the archdiocese of Naples boasts an ecclesiastical territory of 247sq km. and counts 4 bishops(1 arch, 3 coadjutant), what is there that is unreasonable about not even 10 bishops servicing the globe in a time of utter cataclysm?

As PV says above- not necessarily that I agree- a very sound argument can be made that there are still not nearly ENOUGH bishops for our present needs.

In passing, does anyone not find it strange that Sean Johnson has time to post sardonic messages on Taylor Swift threads but has nothing to say about the current Resistance situation vis-à-vis the bishops? Surely there is more than a feast's worth of discussion of these matters for a fully traditional protagonist.

2Vermont · « **Reply #6 on:** December 02, 2023, 07:09:50 AM »

Sixth Objection: Perhaps have recourse to the conservative bishops
who love us.
So the same answers apply to those bishops who love us more,
because even if those bishops respect tradition, respect the good
mass, etc. two questions arise about these so-called
"conservatives", - they remain very attached to the Conciliar
Church, nor have they renounced the Conciliar errors on a personal
level. Furthermore, there is the question about their consecration
too. You have seen the recent study published by the Dominicans of
Avrille; Father Calderon; showing that there are questions raised
regarding each sacrament of the modern Church. It doesn't mean
that everything is invalid, but nevertheless they are
questionable. So there! It is true that Msgr. Vigano, very
courageous, renounced the error of the Conciliar Church etc.; Msgr
Vigano has impressed us a great deal, a good bishop, but he is 83
years old...and we mustn't wait for the impossible.

So, it seems that the Resistance bishops decided not to wait on Vigano. I had been wondering whether Vigano was open to conditional consecration. This seems to answer that question.

TheRealMcCoy · « **Reply #7 on:** December 02, 2023, 07:57:00 AM »

The world is so distracted by so much noise that the next lock down and persecution will catch most everyone off guard. The internet most likely will be shut down and so you won't even have access to information about where there is a mass. And when you are in a life or death situation things like politics and marriage troubles never enter your mind. The only thing you're concerned about is dying in a state of grace. I can attest to this as I recently had a serious health crisis that I posted about in another thread. Issues like "Sol Invictus" and "he ain't kissing me right" become so utterly irrelevant. How many bishops will the world need when the 15 minute rule is in place?

TruthUnchained · « **Reply #8 on:** December 05, 2023, 09:19:27 AM »

An excellent article by Fr Pivert on this topic. (It is a rushed translation. For 'coronation' read consecration --

We are very saddened to hear criticism of the coronation of Mgr Ballini by Mgr Williamson, especially since these criticisms relate to details which have no seriousness, no harmful consequences and which would not even be worth the trouble of stop there. What is the importance of whether Mgr Ballini was consecrated in private or in public, whether the revelation of the consecration was made sooner or later? To criticize these details is to forget the perverse nuisance of the world hostile to the Church and its servants. We have a new bishop, defender of the faith, zealous, friend of priests, devoted to the faithful, who, in Ireland, was the only priest to continue and extend the care of souls through journeys as courageous as they were numerous while not a single priest of the modern Church, not a priest of the Society of Saint Pius Those who do not rejoice in this really have a serious problem and are playing into the hands of the adversary of the Church.
We therefore questioned the main person concerned as well as the Church. Here are their answers.

Bishop Williamson
I consecrated Bishop Ballini privately because of the Covid crisis in Ireland which was in full swing at that time. He was on a short visit to Broadstairs, and any passage from Ireland to England or the reverse seemed at any moment in danger of being cut off. This way the Catholics in Ireland would at least have something to protect the Faith. In fact, contacts were not cut then, but in the future...?

The liturgy of the coronations
The study of coronations is also interesting for the history of the liturgy. Accustomed as we are to grandiose and solemn ceremonies, it is difficult to imagine today that in past centuries episcopal consecrations took place without any pomp or pageantry. These were “low masses”, as they used to say in the past. It was only in the middle of the ^19th century, when coronations began to take place in the provinces, that they were given some luster. In Italy, we had to wait until the beginning of the ^20th century to see coronations multiply outside of Rome.

This is how things happened in the Eternal City from the Council of Trent. The consistories were usually held on Mondays; the recommended bishops of Italy were consecrated the following Sunday in different churches in Rome, and very often in groups of two, three or four. The very short time between the nomination and the coronation prevented the ceremony from being given much luster.
To fully understand the coronations in France, we must remember the concordat procedure, whatever the concordat. The pontifical bulls of canonical institution are not sent to the elected official but to the head of state who appointed. The bubbles are examined by the judicial authorities of the moment which, during periods of tension, take the opportunity to quibble or contest the text. A royal or presidential act is then required which declares the bulls admissible. The chosen one can then withdraw them; he must therefore come to Paris, especially since after his coronation he will have to take the oath to the head of state. He goes into preparatory retreat and is crowned without ceremony in a seminary or community chapel, in front of a few friends and relatives. Those who know, for example, the chapel of Lorette in Issy, which was very fashionable under the Restoration, will have an idea of what a coronation ceremony could have been like when three bishops decided to be ordained together in the said chapel. .

In this regard, here is an unpublished and particularly interesting testimony, which has remained ignored by Talleyrand's numerous biographers, on his episcopal coronation. The ceremony took place in the Saint-Sauveur chapel, in the garden of Issy, now demolished. Its progress is known to us from the manuscript of the Saint-Sulpice ceremonial (p. 71). The simplicity of the decor seems to have been pushed to the extreme. (…) “In 1789, on January 4, the coronation of the Bishop of Autun in the chapel of Saint-Sauveur in Issy. This chapel is narrow and more awkward than at Laurette even for a coronation with two bishops. The cold was at ^14th degree on the thermometer. The prayer tables, chests, chairs and armchairs were removed from the chapel. The two credenzas were placed in the corners of the wall, the small altar in the left corner. He was holding part of the window. We could not remove the doors, which is a considerable inconvenience, they are only held together with nails and there was a fear that the wood would break. The stove had been lit the day before, wood had been put in it to maintain it during the night. We put more wood there in the morning. The doors of the chapel had been left open so that the heat could be communicated everywhere. A tapestry was placed in the corridor over the door leading into the chapel. The master of ceremonies did his best to avoid confusion, in which he was not always successful. At the end of the ceremony, he urged all the people who were both in the chapel and at the door to line up around the room for the procession, so that the prelate would have someone to whom he could give the blessing. The solitary gentlemen performed the ceremonies alone and were entertained. »

Secret or discreet coronations
Given the number of years and coronations, it was inevitable that certain consecrations were distinguished by some particularity. In past centuries and in all countries, there were coronations that we could call discreet, carried out at night for various reasons. To name just one, one of the best known in France was that of the first vicar apostolic of Canada, Blessed François de Laval-Montigny, consecrated on the night of December 8, 1658 in Saint-Germain-des-Prés by the nuncio, with all doors closed. The reason was that the Archbishop of Rouen, François de Harlay de Champvallon, believed he had jurisdiction over Canada Lands because the boats going there left from his diocese. He was violently opposed to the appointment of a vicar apostolic. Let us add that this same Harlay, who became archbishop of Paris, will be the strongest supporter of the erection of Quebec into a diocese in 1674! In 1831, due to the political situation and the precarious position of the consecrating archbishop of Paris, Romain Gallard, bishop of Meaux, was consecrated at night on April 17, among the ladies of Saint-Thomas de Villeneuve.
But our century would see the birth of a new kind of coronation, the secret coronation in communist countries. The first seems to have been that of Father Neveu in 1926 in Moscow. Pius The ceremony was not very solemn, it was only witnessed by the sacristan, the snuffer served as a pastoral staff. Since then, in certain Eastern countries, secret coronations have multiplied, often carried out in incredible conditions, a hotel room, a scullery, a work camp, in Romania, in Czechoslovakia, among attached Ukrainians. force on the Orthodox Church by Stalin. The names of these bishops are never published in the Annuario pontificio.
Andrew hat. Episcopal ordinations in the Catholic Church from the 16th century to the present. In: Revue d'histoire de l'Église de France, volume 76, n°196, 1990. pp. 73-84; doi: https://doi.org/10.3406/rhef.1990.3486 https://www.persee.fr/doc/rhef_0300-9505_1990_num_76_196_3486

The coronations in the Gulag
Besides the ancient case of Saint Eusebius, it seems useful to us to report those of the secret episcopal consecrations, and even without the knowledge of Rome, in the Gulag. To do this, we consulted an eminent specialist in these questions: Mr. Maurice de Nessy, whose response we reproduce below, for which we warmly thank him. As a preliminary remark, what is valid for the safeguarding of a limited portion of the Church, where Catholics are nevertheless found in limited numbers, must be a fortiori valid when it is, as we say, we said, of the survival of Tradition, and of the spiritual life of all faithful Catholics throughout the Church.

There were numerous ordinations and coronations in secret in the Gulag, according to the long tradition of the Church. The bishops in distress in the unlimited Gulag therefore only did their duty as creators of priesthood and episcopate without negotiations with Rome... Subsequently there could be communication of these ceremonies to the Roman congregations, as was the case for the secret ordinations made at Dachau by Mgr Piguet, deported bishop of Clermont-Ferrand. Similar events happened in Albania, according to what was told to me (in secret) there. In any case, there is clarity on these dramatic cases that the horizon frees up, but, Ostpolitik obliges, Rome is in silence on this subject.

In Romania, I was able to have (discreet) contact with a Uniate bishop, Mgr Gorcea (is that his real name?) consecrated in secret at the camp by Metropolitan Cardinal Hossiu. Released together, they both died today.
In the USSR, there were coronations by Mgr d'Herbigny: NNSS Neveu, Sloskans, Frison, Malecki. This one consecrated in prison, before the post, the bishops Matulonis and Amoudrou.

In Ukraine, I was certain of secret ordinations, as well as clandestine consecrations: Mgr Alexandre Chira, by Mgr Ronya (disappeared in the Gulag); Mgr Vassil Welytchkovski (thirteen years in prison then deported, died in Canada in 1973); Mgr Pavlo Vassilik, Mgr Ivan Sémédé, came out of the forests to sign with twenty-three priests, twelve religious and one hundred and seventy-four lay people, a petition delivered on August 2, 1987 to Gorbachev for the recognition of their Church. These four bishops therefore received their powers in the Gulag or “in the forest” from the hand of incarcerated or fugitive bishops, without physical or postal links with Rome and for good reason, because it was absolutely necessary for the permanence of the Uniate Church, a priesthood and above all an episcopate: it seems that Patriarch Slipyi achieved this at least five times. For this you must address (but he will perhaps be very careful) to the Father… to…
Maurice de Nessy in Sacres by Mgr Lefebvre, a schism?

OABrownson1876 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 11, 2023, 12:40:04 PM »

One could maintain the position that Abp. Lefebvre consecrated far too few bishops. Other than the Thuc consecrations, no one in the world was consecrating bishops to my knowledge. The good archbishop was facing pressure from Rome. Were he to consecrate ten bishops, he might have feared Rome saying, "Dang, look at the Abp., he is setting up a parallel church." Bp. Williamson told us in seminary that Rome originally only wanted Lefebvre to consecrate one bishop. It would have been a cleaner break if the Abp. had said, "Nearly all the bishops in the Church act like heretics, the New Mass is a grave sacrilege, and I am consecrating ten bishops because we need them."

Besides, its a numbers game as well. A bishop might consecrate ten bishops with the understanding that three or four of them might end up being turncoats, leaving us with five or six faithful ones.

TheRealMcCoy · « **Reply #10 on:** December 11, 2023, 02:46:33 PM »

Quote from: OABrownson1876 on December 11, 2023, 12:40:04 PM

One could maintain the position that Abp. Lefebvre consecrated far too few bishops. Other than the Thuc consecrations, no one in the world was consecrating bishops to my knowledge. The good archbishop was facing pressure from Rome. Were he to consecrate ten bishops, he might have feared Rome saying, "Dang, look at the Abp., he is setting up a parallel church." Bp. Williamson told us in seminary that Rome originally only wanted Lefebvre to consecrate one bishop. It would have been a cleaner break if the Abp. had said, "Nearly all the bishops in the Church act like heretics, the New Mass is a grave sacrilege, and I am consecrating ten bishops because we need them."

Besides, its a numbers game as well. A bishop might consecrate ten bishops with the understanding that three or four of them might end up being turncoats, leaving us with five or six faithful ones.

The US has exactly ONE Resistance bishop to cover 3.8 million sq miles. And zero seminaries. Does anyone else see a problem with this?

2Vermont · « **Reply #11 on:** December 14, 2023, 07:40:22 AM »

When was Bishop Paul Morgan consecrated?

Plenus Venter · « **Reply #12 on:** December 15, 2023, 03:42:42 AM »

Quote from: 2Vermont on December 14, 2023, 07:40:22 AM

When was Bishop Paul Morgan consecrated?

February 14, 2022 in Cork Ireland by Bishop Williamson with Bishop Ballini co-consecrator:
Listen from 9:30

2Vermont · « **Reply #13 on:** December 15, 2023, 06:04:10 AM »

Quote from: Plenus Venter on December 15, 2023, 03:42:42 AM

February 14, 2022 in Cork Ireland by Bishop Williamson with Bishop Ballini co-consecrator:
Listen from 9:30

Feb 2022? I'm confused then. Was the OP a response to his own consecration or some other Resistance consecrations?

Plenus Venter · « **Reply #14 on:** December 15, 2023, 02:26:27 PM »

Quote from: 2Vermont on December 15, 2023, 06:04:10 AM

Feb 2022? I'm confused then. Was the OP a response to his own consecration or some other Resistance consecrations?

His own was the most recent of the private consecrations and before that Ballini in Ireland and Stobnicki in Poland. Even though it was early last year, it remained secret but gradually leaked out until it was officially declared by Bishop Williamson in the above sermon. He is now visiting places for the first time as a bishop which is the reason these matters are coming to the fore.

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