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Author Topic: Starting a Mass Centre  (Read 8102 times)

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Offline isoquote

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Starting a Mass Centre
« on: December 13, 2022, 07:06:57 AM »
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  • Our opinion is that you must follow God’s lead on this one. When (not if) you and you family’s Faith is being undermined and destroyed by staying inside the SSPX then you must be prepared to lead your family and leave. We should be prepared to travel, to hunt out a Mass.

    Priests will come to serve those who NEED the sacraments - that is how the SSPX get their emergency faculties and that is how Resistance priests obtain their faculties. If all you can offer them is a room in your house, or a site demountable on a piece of land that is all that you will need. You can build up the rest to offer glory to God later… I would advise that you build up a loyalty to a Mass centre and have a hierarchy in your mind of what you will and will not compromise on (in terms of pastoral advise and on doctrine) and reassess as the years creak on by.

    We have our recusant persecution as example on how to behave. They had a valid TLM offered by validly ordained priests - the martyrs did not assist at Masses offered by these Henrican priests who served the old and the new regime, in Britain there were faithful who sat both sides of the fence - THEY did not save their souls (or the souls of those they had authority over!) by going to these insulting Masses. (Just google Lord Stourton 1596(ish) and Mortal Sin!)

    The main thing is Keep Holy the Sabbath because that is God’s command, going to Mass is a man made rule of the Church and if the Church cannot provide an uncompromised Mass that is not your fault.

    Stay strong - hold each other up!

    In Him
    Isoquote

    Offline Catholicman

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    Re: Starting a Mass Centre
    « Reply #1 on: December 13, 2022, 07:24:15 AM »
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  • Very good advice.
    We are all losing our (good) sense of independence and initiative in this regard. Because we are too willing to compromise. 
    There are clergy willing to travel and not sit in their corner.
    Message me anyone who wants to know more.


    Offline Meg

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    Re: Starting a Mass Centre
    « Reply #2 on: December 13, 2022, 09:53:14 AM »
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  • The main thing is Keep Holy the Sabbath because that is God’s command, going to Mass is a man made rule of the Church and if the Church cannot provide an uncompromised Mass that is not your fault.

    Stay strong - hold each other up!

    In Him
    Isoquote

    Are you sure that the Mass is a man-made rule of the Church? Is that what Catholics have always believed? The Mass began with the Apostles, so how can it be man-made? 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Starting a Mass Centre
    « Reply #3 on: December 13, 2022, 11:29:56 AM »
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  • Are you sure that the Mass is a man-made rule of the Church? Is that what Catholics have always believed? The Mass began with the Apostles, so how can it be man-made?
    The OP means because the Church made assisting at Mass on Sunday / Holy Days obligatory under pain of mortal sin, the Church must provide the Mass for you. If She has not provided the Mass for you, then you are freed from the obligation to go to Mass. 
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Starting a Mass Centre
    « Reply #4 on: December 13, 2022, 11:41:44 AM »
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  • The OP means because the Church made assisting at Mass on Sunday / Holy Days obligatory under pain of mortal sin, the Church must provide the Mass for you. If She has not provided the Mass for you, then you are freed from the obligation to go to Mass.

    Are you sure that going to Mass is a man-made rule? Is it then just a matter of discipline and nothing else?
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Starting a Mass Centre
    « Reply #5 on: December 13, 2022, 11:44:13 AM »
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  • Are you sure that going to Mass is a man-made rule?
    Man-made in the sense that it is a law established by the Church so it is Church Law, not Divine Law. Keeping the Sabbath Day holy is Divine Law. 
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Starting a Mass Centre
    « Reply #6 on: December 13, 2022, 11:45:11 AM »
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  • Man-made in the sense that it is a law established by the Church so it is Church Law, not Divine Law. Keeping the Sabbath Day holy is Divine Law.

    So it's just a matter of a disciplinary rule, and nothing else?
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Starting a Mass Centre
    « Reply #7 on: December 13, 2022, 11:57:51 AM »
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  • So it's just a matter of a disciplinary rule, and nothing else?
    Yes, except this disciplinary rule has a mortal sin attached to it.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: Starting a Mass Centre
    « Reply #8 on: December 13, 2022, 12:04:53 PM »
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  • Yes, except this disciplinary rule has a mortal sin attached to it.

    In my opinion, we cannot say that this is a "disciplinary rule, and nothing else".

    It is more like an extension of the third commandment.

    The five commandments of the Church are more than disciplinary rules. They are more like the minimum you need to do in order to have a spiritual life.

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Starting a Mass Centre
    « Reply #9 on: December 13, 2022, 12:09:33 PM »
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  • In my opinion, we cannot say that this is a "disciplinary rule, and nothing else".

    It is more like an extension of the third commandment.

    The five commandments of the Church are more than disciplinary rules. They are more like the minimum you need to do in order to have a spiritual life.
    Yes, well put. Either way, if there is a Mass we can get to within a reasonable distance, then we are obligated under pain of mortal sin to go to it. This applies to the True Mass, not the new jazz. 
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Starting a Mass Centre
    « Reply #10 on: December 13, 2022, 12:18:05 PM »
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  • In my opinion, we cannot say that this is a "disciplinary rule, and nothing else".

    It is more like an extension of the third commandment.

    The five commandments of the Church are more than disciplinary rules. They are more like the minimum you need to do in order to have a spiritual life.

    Thank you. Well said.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Starting a Mass Centre
    « Reply #11 on: December 13, 2022, 12:50:12 PM »
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  • Yes, well put. Either way, if there is a Mass we can get to within a reasonable distance, then we are obligated under pain of mortal sin to go to it. This applies to the True Mass, not the new jazz.

    So let’s say a “bishop” Pfeiffer  were to set up a mass center next door to your house and there were no other mass centers within a reasonable distance, you are obligated to go to his? I think not.
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Starting a Mass Centre
    « Reply #12 on: December 13, 2022, 01:08:08 PM »
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  • So let’s say a “bishop” Pfeiffer  were to set up a mass center next door to your house and there were no other mass centers within a reasonable distance, you are obligated to go to his? I think not.
    I think so. We can go to him for confession and Mass. Even if he's not a bishop He is still a priest and the Mass *is* right next door to your house. We do not have to receive communion except once a year and can leave for the sermon. Even if you sit in the back and do your part you will have fulfilled your obligation.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: Starting a Mass Centre
    « Reply #13 on: December 13, 2022, 01:24:43 PM »
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  • I think so. We can go to him for confession and Mass. Even if he's not a bishop He is still a priest and the Mass *is* right next door to your house. We do not have to receive communion except once a year and can leave for the sermon. Even if you sit in the back and do your part you will have fulfilled your obligation.

    So you are obligated to go to a Mass celebrated by a man who confers doubtful sacraments? He is a real priest, but a doubtful bishop. 
    He allegedly allows his lay supporters to practice occult rites.
    What about his preaching? Is it free from error?
    Using this logic, we would be obliged to attend an indult mass, if it is celebrated by a valid priest.
    This doesn't sound right to me at all.

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Starting a Mass Centre
    « Reply #14 on: December 13, 2022, 01:42:05 PM »
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  • I think so. We can go to him for confession and Mass. Even if he's not a bishop He is still a priest and the Mass *is* right next door to your house. We do not have to receive communion except once a year and can leave for the sermon. Even if you sit in the back and do your part you will have fulfilled your obligation.

    Who sent him? Who gave him the authority to set up a chapel? The Church didn’t set up that chapel, he did by his own volition. You are only obliged to go to a mass that the Church Herself authorizes.
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?