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Crisis in the Church / Re: “Experiment of Tradition”
« Last post by Matthew on Today at 12:12:10 PM »
Ekim, get to the point.

You're going back to the Novus Ordo? Becoming protestant? Dogmatic Home-aloner (person who hates Novus Ordo but also Traditional Movement)? Giving up hope? Giving up the Faith? You seem to be in the thralls of some kind of blackpilled despair.

If you've given up on Traditional Catholicism, I would ask you to please keep your black pills and despair to yourself. No one here needs a Denethor to shout his despair to all the brave soldiers manning the walls. "My line is ended!"

Because if you continue to shout your "Flee! Flee for your lives!" to demoralize and discourage the Trads on this Trad forum, I will have no choice but to play the role of Gandalf the White to your Denethor. i.e., Knock you out with my staff (ban you) and gainsay your words of despair with "Prepare for battle!"
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I agree everything we see was put their by God, but God put many things into the world for humans to discover.  We didn't start out making metal objects.  We didn't start out making computers.  People 1000 years ago didn't even have imaginations for computers.

You do realize that computers wouldn't survive more than a couple hundred years if humans disappeared. If they had tablets, laptops, and the Internet before the Flood, we would never know it. You'd be surprised how little of New York City would even exist 1,000 years later, recognizable or not, if all human beings disappeared tomorrow.

Go watch the docuмentary series "Life after People" to see what I mean. Pretty much only stone monuments would last longer.


And yes, men have known metalworking since DAY ONE. Since the FIRST HUMAN. If you believe in cavemen, I can't help you. Men did not evolve from apes. They were always rational creatures, having language, agriculture, medicine, planning ahead, metalworking, proper housing, bathing, you name it.
Source: Holy Scripture
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Crisis in the Church / Re: “Experiment of Tradition”
« Last post by Ekim on Today at 11:55:38 AM »
What???

Are you kidding???

You who have been around in Tradition for 30 years can say this???

"The experiment of Tradition" was an extraordinary success. I became traditional in 1980 at the age of 14, and Tradition back then, and for many years after, was a very lonely life for a young man, or for older parents, all of whom found themselves very isolated and with very few friends indeed, not to mention limited availability of the Mass and sacraments, ceremonies in private homes, the proverbial garages, rented venues... perhaps you arrived on the scene just as things had improved somewhat.

Archbishop Lefebvre asked of Paul VI to be allowed to conduct this experiment, hoping that Rome would see the good fruits and return to Tradition, seeing how the Council and the reforms had produced only bad fruits. This was refused him, and so the experiment took place outside of the "Official Church" and without Rome's approval. Those of us who lived through this period would never have believed it possible that the Traditional movement could enjoy such extraordinary growth and vitality in so few years. Yes, indeed, it was a great success and we saw all the wonderful fruits in large, holy families, living the Faith and the life of grace in this wicked world, conversions, religious vocations, the multiplication of churches and religious institutions, Catholic printing houses, the ready availability once again of traditional books, images and devotional items. The revival was truly amazing. How blessed we have been, and how different it might have been!

And this is the great evil of the neo-SSPX vis-a-vis modernist Rome. They pretended to be only doing what the Archbishop was doing. Yet this experiment he requested had already taken place without Rome's approval. Rome saw the unequivocal and undeniable good fruits in abundance, and still they continued relentlessly with their reforming madness and their crusade to destroy Tradition.

"Tradition is not blessed any greater than other religions". It is the NO that should be your comparison, not "other religions", and it is not just numbers we are talking about, but the spiritual manifestations of the Faith - not the fantastic that you seem to be seeking, miracles and mystical phenomena and the like, but keeping and living the Faith in a world that makes it nigh impossible: Catholic families, religious vocations, churches, seminaries, religious houses. What is the wonder if other false religions prosper that pander to the flesh and man's fallen nature in a world where even "Catholic" authority is used to promote such a false notion of religion?

The survival and expansion of Catholic Tradition in this world without the help of Catholic authority is a miracle in itself. All praise and thanks to God for His mercies!
As one looks through rose colored glasses.  

The numbers of children raised in Tradition..,who stay dedicated to the Traditional faith are few. 

I would not consider the meager growth over 62 years as “flourishing” but mearly getting-by.

The many “Traditional” priests who have stayed TRUE to Tradition as exemplified by H.E. Archbishop Lefebvre are few.

if you are talking about folks who like the smells and bells of Traditional Catholicism, Tradcuмinist’s,  and don’t mind compromising Tradition, like the Neo-SSPX and off-shoot indult organizations, than yes your observations are true.  However, for those who hold fast to Tradition, uncompromised, not so much.
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I really hate to hear "What does it matter?" about any truth on CathInfo. That's the whole point of this forum, to discuss and figure out the truths in our physical world. From wars, to fαℓѕє fℓαgs, to cօռspιʀαcιҽs, to health topics like vaccines and covid. And figuring out the TRUTH about what's going on in the world, between various news reports, half of which contradict each other. In this category also goes the Church today, after Vatican II -- i.e., the Crisis in the Church.

As the young'uns say, "How to say "I don't belong on CathInfo" without saying "I don't belong on CathInfo". Lack of interest in the truth.

If you're busy with family -- GO TO YOUR FAMILY. If you have bigger fish to fry, then PLEASE, GO FRY THEM. You shouldn't be spending time on CathInfo that you don't have. Come back when you have time/interest to figure out and seize the truth on some topic.

But the Faith itself, the supernatural truth, truths about God, Catholic morality we already have 100% clear-cut certainty about, being Traditional Catholics. We just refer to any pre-Vatican II docuмents, the Catechism, etc. Matters of the Faith, dogma, etc. can't be the main topic on CathInfo or it would be a VERY boring forum.
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It's all going to come full circle one day, may have to translate the 1962 Missal into the vernacular to pacify those who just can't fathom the idea of Mass in a language they don't understand (something similar was done for the Mohawk Indians in the missionary days), but it'll happen.  May take 50 years, but it'll happen. 

What man wants to be ordained a priest, only to celebrate a highly communal, improvised Mass with women running all about at the altar, and being told what to do by Susan From The Parish Council types?  And as to all of these vocations out of Africa, I read somewhere that 100 percent of African priests are not faithful to their promises of celibacy, and I have zero respect for that.
Hate to break it to you but even traditional priests have to deal with overbearing church lady types.
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I agree everything we see was put their by God, but God put many things into the world for humans to discover.  We didn't start out making metal objects.  We didn't start out making computers.  People 1000 years ago didn't even have imaginations for computers.
How did we cut our hair and nails without metal objects? Metallurgy, like speech and writing are probably available to man since the fall, around 6000 years ago and certainly since the flood approximately 4,400 years ago. 
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Politics and World Leaders / Re: mass deportations
« Last post by Simeon on Today at 10:47:36 AM »
I suppose this means that many democrats have somehow retained their integral human nature. :cowboy:
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I have met and interacted with some recently-ordained diocesan clergy. This is true. Most of them, if not for their bishop, would have a weekly Tridentine Mass.

It's all going to come full circle one day, may have to translate the 1962 Missal into the vernacular to pacify those who just can't fathom the idea of Mass in a language they don't understand (something similar was done for the Mohawk Indians in the missionary days), but it'll happen.  May take 50 years, but it'll happen.  

What man wants to be ordained a priest, only to celebrate a highly communal, improvised Mass with women running all about at the altar, and being told what to do by Susan From The Parish Council types?  And as to all of these vocations out of Africa, I read somewhere that 100 percent of African priests are not faithful to their promises of celibacy, and I have zero respect for that.
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"Oh no, we stopped, I don't wanna get fat, again, hahahaha" ..........................
- Sede woman at 33 years old.
.

Yikes. :facepalm:
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Crisis in the Church / Re: “Experiment of Tradition”
« Last post by Michelle on Today at 10:09:47 AM »
No. The question never denied the spiritual / Theological / truth of the Holy Catholic Faith, only the objective appearance of Tradition. It is not bursting at the seems and growing exponentially, many, many children who are raised as Traditional Catholics do NOT keep the Traditional Catholic faith and do not return to the chapel’s they grew up in.  It is not blessed with a “St. Padre Pio’s” or “St. Bernadette Souberious” or a miraculous spring as a sign from heaven that it is truly blessed by God. Objectively Tradition does not APPEAR any better or blessed than  other religions.
The religion of Padre Pio and Saint Bernadette is the Tradional Catholic faith and practice.  All the saints and the miracles in the history of the Church are from the "experiment of Tradition."
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