Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Is it Morally Permissible To Vote During The Upcoming Election?  (Read 2254 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Christs Servant

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • Reputation: +17/-11
  • Gender: Male
  • in hoc signo vinces
Re: Is it Morally Permissible To Vote During The Upcoming Election?
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2020, 04:10:18 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • Plus, both Biden and Trump are vaccination apostles.

    And the fact that the forthcoming COVID19 vaccines will likely be produced with abortive stem cell lines (which Vigano, Burke, Strickland, and Schneider say can never be used) adds another layer or moral murkiness to the whole thing.

    Or does it?  I note the same Vigano who supports Trump, is the same Vigano who says we can never use abortive vaccines.

    Can anyone work that one out?
    Maybe His Excellency Monsignor Vigano has ulterior motives?
    God Owes Us Nothing

    Offline Matto

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6882
    • Reputation: +3852/-406
    • Gender: Male
    • Love God and Play, Do Good Work and Pray
    Re: Is it Morally Permissible To Vote During The Upcoming Election?
    « Reply #16 on: October 08, 2020, 04:12:43 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Maybe His Excellency Monsignor Vigano has ulterior motives?
    I still find the whole Taylor Marshall thing being on Trump's team officially to be so weird. And Vigano writing love letters to Trump. So weird.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.


    Offline Nadir

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 11934
    • Reputation: +7293/-500
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Is it Morally Permissible To Vote During The Upcoming Election?
    « Reply #17 on: October 08, 2020, 04:22:37 PM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!0
  • It is every voter's duty to stay informed.  Information proves there is no lesser of two evils in this POTUS race.  Trump just funded Bill Gate's GAVI population control foundation to the tune of 12 Billion dollars after the WHO's top guns moved to GAVI from the WHO.  WHO and GAVI have the same agenda, but if you don't know what that is, know that Bill Gates is the founder of GAVI. The 12 Billion from Trump to Bill Gates exceeds by far money given by Obama's 600 million to WHO.  GAVI funds abortion, birth control and sterilizing vaccines under the guise of health care in third world countries, and it has Agenda 30 goals for reducing population worldwide.  So, on the US side, Trump is a saint.  Out the backdoor he's RBG.  Biden and Trump are both pro gαy, and Trump's daughter Ivanka is pushing hard for world wide vaccines for every person. Trump's son-in-law is working for Israel's interests with connections to huge sums of money through Trump. Trump and the rest of the Billionaires have increased their net worth up to 50% in the last 6 months thanks to Covid, while the money they stole was the last change in people's pockets. Anyone who thinks Trump is good, is caught up in the game of politics and banks on phantom gains, ignoring the bigger picture.  Trump is using the most advanced techniques in politics: Play your constituents like a fiddle and you'll have no opposition to what you're really up to.  If people voted their consciences for real, they could not vote for either candidate, but ought to go home and pray like never before.        
    This is the truth of the matter.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024

    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 15060
    • Reputation: +10006/-3163
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is it Morally Permissible To Vote During The Upcoming Election?
    « Reply #18 on: October 08, 2020, 04:25:59 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
  • I could see voting for Buchanan or whoever the Constitution Party endorsed, but what would be the point in voting then?  Might as well just stay home.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline claudel

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1776
    • Reputation: +1335/-419
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is it Morally Permissible To Vote During The Upcoming Election?
    « Reply #19 on: October 08, 2020, 04:26:10 PM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!1

  • Maybe His Excellency Monsignor Vigano has ulterior motives?

    That's a pretty snide thing to say in the absence of any substantiating evidence in its support. I suggest that you either offer some evidence or withdraw the offending statement. Otherwise, it won't be long till others join me in wondering whether you have ulterior motives and what they might be.


    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 15060
    • Reputation: +10006/-3163
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is it Morally Permissible To Vote During The Upcoming Election?
    « Reply #20 on: October 08, 2020, 04:28:08 PM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!1
  • That's a pretty snide thing to say in the absence of any substantiating evidence in its support. I suggest that you either offer some evidence or withdraw the offending statement. Otherwise, it won't be long till others join me in wondering whether you have ulterior motives and what they might be.
    THIS^^^^^
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline 2Vermont

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 11527
    • Reputation: +6477/-1195
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Is it Morally Permissible To Vote During The Upcoming Election?
    « Reply #21 on: October 08, 2020, 04:34:49 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • You never know. No one expected Michigan and Wisconsin to flip; they were most certainly not considered swing states.
    Both of those states were not historically solidly blue.  Percentages were fairly close.  Perhaps they weren't technically "swing states" but changing color wasn't out of the question.  OTOH, I live in Vermont.

    The other piece to the puzzle is the number of electoral votes.

    Offline claudel

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1776
    • Reputation: +1335/-419
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is it Morally Permissible To Vote During The Upcoming Election?
    « Reply #22 on: October 08, 2020, 04:36:03 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1

  • This is the truth of the matter.

    Yes, it's a good summation of the sorry situation we all find ourselves in. The only thing Tradman omits—or rather, that I'd add—is that Trump seems to have relinquished his thinking capacity to his son-in-law, Jared Kushner. Indeed, Kushner might as well be de facto president. Nothing that Trump has said or done in the past year has been consonant with the platform that won him the 2016 election. Together, Trump and Kushner have tossed into the trash every point of advantage that Biden and hαɾɾιs have handed them.


    Offline Christs Servant

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 33
    • Reputation: +17/-11
    • Gender: Male
    • in hoc signo vinces
    Re: Is it Morally Permissible To Vote During The Upcoming Election?
    « Reply #23 on: October 08, 2020, 04:38:38 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!2
  • That's a pretty snide thing to say in the absence of any substantiating evidence in its support. I suggest that you either offer some evidence or withdraw the offending statement. Otherwise, it won't be long till others join me in wondering whether you have ulterior motives and what they might be.
    You are quite defensive & hostile in response to an off hand remark in regards to a post associated with the possible political machinations that may be behind the scenes with the recent letter that His Excellency sent to President Trump. It implied nothing like what you read into it.

    Also, you should always wonder about the ulterior motives of others that you don't know. No such thing as pure and innocent in the land of anonymity.
    God Owes Us Nothing

    Offline Christs Servant

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 33
    • Reputation: +17/-11
    • Gender: Male
    • in hoc signo vinces
    Re: Is it Morally Permissible To Vote During The Upcoming Election?
    « Reply #24 on: October 08, 2020, 04:40:03 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!2
  • God Owes Us Nothing

    Offline Tradman

    • Supporter
    • ***
    • Posts: 1355
    • Reputation: +863/-287
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is it Morally Permissible To Vote During The Upcoming Election?
    « Reply #25 on: October 08, 2020, 04:46:31 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Plus, both Biden and Trump are vaccination apostles.

    And the fact that the forthcoming COVID19 vaccines will likely be produced with abortive stem cell lines (which Vigano, Burke, Strickland, and Schneider say can never be used) adds another layer or moral murkiness to the whole thing.

    Or does it?  I note the same Vigano who supports Trump, is the same Vigano who says we can never use abortive vaccines.

    Can anyone work that one out?
    Poor Vigano wants what we all want: No Biden/hαɾɾιs.  But if avoiding rule by ladies is the goal, that makes Trump the likely answer. People do not comprehend that we are entering enslavement by the ruling class either way.  Even worse, Trump is more capable of hailing the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr than anyone because he's a business man who understands how money works, how to profit from it and is physically and mentally up to the job. That's why he's POTUS and will continue to be POTUS because we live in a freemasonic world where cash for the elite is the rule. Trump is doing an amazing job convincing Christians that waffling on principles out of desperation, hoping to stave off evil, they are doing the right thing. They are doing the opposite. They believe him because they so desperately want a worldly kingdom.  Not to be too ashamed, even Peter fell for that one.  I recently saw a website that said the name Trump is short for trumpet and I actually wondered if that wasn't some sort of sign.
    When good people refuse to give a single inch, and yes, if necessary, go down with the ship for love of Truth, only then will there be a light at the end of the tunnel.  It's terrible news people won't tolerate, but things are only going to get way worse. Personally, I don't want any part in bringing it about. Good Catholics still think we have to vote, but given Biden or Trump, it is becoming obvious that we have to quit the globalist game and put some serious stock in Fatima.         


    Offline claudel

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1776
    • Reputation: +1335/-419
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is it Morally Permissible To Vote During The Upcoming Election?
    « Reply #26 on: October 08, 2020, 04:53:23 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1

  • … the recent letter that His Excellency sent to President Trump … implied nothing like what you read into it.

    Well, I grant that I'm pretty thick, especially when it comes to reading the big words in correspondence. Maybe Sean has had the wool pulled over his eyes, too. Thus, it would be a real mitzvah [ahem] if you could enlighten us as to what that devious old archbishop was actually up to. I await your analysis with bated breath.

    Offline Christs Servant

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 33
    • Reputation: +17/-11
    • Gender: Male
    • in hoc signo vinces
    Re: Is it Morally Permissible To Vote During The Upcoming Election?
    « Reply #27 on: October 08, 2020, 05:00:48 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!3
  • Well, I grant that I'm pretty thick, especially when it comes to reading the big words in correspondence. Maybe Sean has had the wool pulled over his eyes, too. Thus, it would be a real mitzvah [ahem] if you could enlighten us as to what that devious old archbishop was actually up to. I await your analysis with bated breath.
    🤣
    You must be really popular with the ladies. You have a great personality, Mr. Rosenbaum. Perhaps you would be so kind as to give me some Yiddish lessons sometime? 
    God Owes Us Nothing

    Offline Jaynek

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4170
    • Reputation: +2318/-1232
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Is it Morally Permissible To Vote During The Upcoming Election?
    « Reply #28 on: October 08, 2020, 05:11:31 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • This article is immediately discredited by the use of the term "lesser of two evils".  That is alien to the fundamental principles of Catholic moral theology.

    It bases the opinion on the ramblings of a Modernist from the 1950s which makes no consideration regarding the principle of double effect, the only principle by which one can do something that has an unintended evil outcome, but argues from purely utilitarian principles.  One major flaw with Novus Ordo Watch is that they tend to subscribe to "Fifties-ism," believing that everything written before the magical year 1958 is automatically orthodox and authoritative, whereas the decay in Catholic theology was already far advanced by then.
    It is unfortunate that it used the expression "lesser of two evils" since that is not a Catholic idea.  I thought the value of the article was the reference to and summary of Cranny's work, an overview of traditional Catholic moral theology. It was a simplified presentation for people who aren't prepared to slog through all the details of double effect and cooperation in evil.  Perhaps it was even over-simplified, but it did link to Cranny's full work for those up for the fuller treatment.

    As you know, it is the traditional position that it is morally permissible to vote for unworthy candidates under certain circuмstances. This position is grounded in Catholic moral theology, not utilitarianism.

    My own view is that the current situation meets the conditions in which it is permissible to vote for an unworthy candidate.  If, however, you cannot in conscience vote for Trump (Biden is clearly out of the question) then you are under no obligation to do so.

    Offline claudel

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1776
    • Reputation: +1335/-419
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Is it Morally Permissible To Vote During The Upcoming Election?
    « Reply #29 on: October 08, 2020, 05:12:37 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

  • … Trump is doing an amazing job convincing Christians that waffling on principles out of desperation, hoping to stave off evil, they are doing the right thing. They are doing the opposite. They believe him because they so desperately want a worldly kingdom.

    I think that this one aspect of the assessment overreaches. That is to say, whether it's correct or not hardly matters, because the great mass of those who plan to vote for Trump—even those at this website!—perceive him as the only rational choice in a situation where they see just one other option: a pair of candidates who rival Hillary Clinton for sheer wickedness and surpass her for stupidity. Please note that I write the foregoing as someone who hasn't voted since the great Gingrich betrayal of 1994 forever ripped the scales from my eyes.

    For better or worse, however, abstaining from voting remains an alternative that has failed to acquire critical mass. Whether it ever will is something that might soon become a moot point if the Establishment's plans for societal disruption following an apparent Trump victory go forward in the manner that the alternative media have revealed. In other words, I am telling my seventy-five-year-old bones and sinews that they will have to acquire the flexibility needed to be a doomsday prepper!