Author Topic: Alabama Effectively Outlaws Abortion (Read 5698 times)

Maria Regina · « **Reply #25 on:** May 16, 2019, 06:56:20 PM »

Quote from: josefamenendez on May 16, 2019, 03:42:45 PM

Wow- this law eliminates rape and incest exemptions and will incarcerate abortionists for felonies. I am thankful for this law! This is the best state legislation ever passed and will go before SCOTUS. You are right about criminalization for the women having the abortions, but that would never fly in the current culture, even with " pro-life" activists. I'm truly surprised that this even got through. Amazing!
I am grateful to God for the Alabama State Legislature and the Governor for this. This is the babies' greatest hope since 1973. Time to stop the killing.
Deo Gratias!

DITTO!

Maria Regina · « **Reply #26 on:** May 16, 2019, 07:03:52 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on May 16, 2019, 10:22:44 AM

Rarely is a woman "forced" to have an abortion; that's usually after-the-fact rationalization from women who subsequently developed guilty consciences about it.

Pressure? Yes, I'm sure that happens all the time. But forced? I'm sure that happens from time to time, but it's much more rare.

In any case, you would treat this like any murder case. If these other people (e.g. men) materially participated, then they should be tried as accomplices. If they tried to persuade her to do it, they could be accessories or conspirators in murder. If a woman were forced to such a degree that it was no longer a free act, then of course she could be found not guilty. But, despite the outward fear and pressure, sin is still sin if there's any element of free will left. So, for instance, those who apostasize under threat of death or torture, still commit a sin; it's merely that the gravity of the sin in God's eyes may be extenuated due to these external pressures.

I agree with you to a point.

However, there have been studies done showing that women and girls are often forced or convinced to have an abortion by their mothers, dads, schoolmates, boyfriends, lovers, doctors, nurses, teachers, etc.

All those who convince/force a scared new mother into having an abortion are accomplices. If these accomplices do not confess their sins, they will suffer hell fire.

When I was in college, a scared young Catholic college coed came to me because she knew I was strong in the faith. She told me that all her friends were trying to force her to have an abortion, but she knew that she would be strengthened by me into choosing life.

Unfortunately, when she was nine months pregnant, a doctor prescribed a known abortifacent antibiotic for an infection, when other less dangerous antibiotics were available. Unknowingly, she took the medicine. She lost the baby within five days. Doctors wanted her to go to an abortuary, but she refused as she wanted nature to take its course. In addition, she had heard that several doctors had falsely said that babies were dead in utero, when they were still alive.

Throughout her pregnancy, she came to me for advice as I was the only one she could trust. Upon my recommendation, she gave the child a Christian burial after baptizing him conditionally immediately following his stillborn birth. My husband and I were there for his funeral and burial. In the small coffin, the child looked normal in every way. He looked like he had just fallen asleep.

josefamenendez · « **Reply #27 on:** May 16, 2019, 08:27:42 PM »

Home > U.S. News
From Haaretz:
"It also presented a threat to my religious freedom as a Jew."
Looks like the Christ haters are building this up to be a "religious rights" violation, since the Jew loves abortion
Opinion
Alabama's Anti-abortion Law: This Is What Christian Rule Looks Like in America
The evangelical crusade making its way from Alabama to the Supreme Court will force American Jews to submit to their distinctly Christian anti-abortion dogma
reddit

[img width=100%]https://images.haarets.co.il/image/upload/w_2192,h_1276,x_0,y_62,c_crop,g_north_west/w_609,h_343,q_auto,c_fill,f_auto/fl_any_format.preserve_transparency.progressive:none/v1557994992/1.7248236.3644653318.jpg[/img]Abortion rights activists protest outside of the U.S. Supreme Court, during the March for Life in Washington. Jan. 18, 2019Jose Luis Magana,AP[/size][/color]

[size={defaultattr}][font={defaultattr}]

When Alabama’s governor this week signed into law the United States’ most restrictive ban on abortion, making it illegal in nearly all circuмstances, it set up a challenge to the U.S. Supreme Court’s 1973 ruling in Roe v. Wade, which made abortion up to 24 weeks a Constitutional right.
>> Subscribe for just $1 now
It also presented a threat to my religious freedom as a Jew.
The Alabama law permits termination of a pregnancy only when it poses a "serious" health risk to the life of the mother, has a "lethal anomaly" or is ectopic. The last two conditions don’t even refer to viable pregnancies.
No exceptions to the abortion ban in cases of rape or incest were included in the new law, which would charge a doctor who performs an abortion with a felony and the possibility of up to 99 years in prison.
More to the point, the new law refers to an embryo or fetus as "the unborn child." That language reflects a distinctly Christian view of when life starts.
Governor Kay Ivey made no secret of that when she said that the new law is "powerful testament to Alabamians' deeply held belief that every life is precious and that every life is a sacred gift from God."
Alabama State Representative Rich Wingo, a Republican and architect of the new law, told The New York Times, "Our position is just simply that the unborn child is a person." Alabama Senator Clyde Chambliss, who shepherded the bill through the chamber, declared: "I believe that if we terminate the life of an unborn child, we are putting ourselves in God’s place." That view, like those embedded in new "heartbeat laws" in Georgia and several other states, reflects the institutionalization of Christian hegemony in America. They infringe on my religious freedom as a Jew.
The very first words of the U.S. Constitution’s First Amendment are: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." The U.S. Supreme Court in 1947 unanimously ruled in Everson v. Board of Education that the Establishment Clause forbids practices that "aid one religion" or "prefer one religion over another," and also those that "aid all religions."
In other words, the government is not permitted to pass laws favoring one religion over another, or over no religion.
[img width= height=]https://images.haarets.co.il/image/upload/w_1792,h_1343,x_149,y_35,c_crop,g_north_west/w_625,h_361,q_auto,c_fill,f_auto/fl_any_format.preserve_transparency.progressive:none/v1557995315/1.7248252.1814676042.jpg[/img]Anti-abortion activists march with a placards and chant in front of the US Supreme Court in Washington, D.C. January 22, 2015AFP
This is key, because according to classical Jєωιѕн text and most rabbinic interpreters, a developing embryo or fetus is not "an unborn child" or "person," but has the legal status of an appendage of the pregnant woman. It is part of her body, not a separate person, until the moment that a majority of a viable baby capable of independent life has been born.Contemporary rabbis hold, of course, a range of views. Politically and religiously conservative Orthodox rabbis say that abortion is permitted only when pregnancy poses a threat to the mother’s life.
Rabbi David Novak heads the Jєωιѕн Pro-Life Foundation, which in its video calls embryos and fetuses "Jєωιѕн children" and states that "life begins at conception," though it does not offer an explanation for its use of this language. The "position of the tradition is that abortion is prohibited unless the fetus is a threat to the life of the mother, which is extremely, extremely rare these days with prenatal care," Novak told me. "The only basis of dispute is how widely or narrowly does one interpret a threat to the mother’s life."
Others have a more nuanced perspective of Judaism’s position. "Abortion is neither murder nor manslaughter," but "in a moral category that is completely different than the way the Catholic Church and some evangelicals view" it, says Rabbi Jack Moline, president of the Interfaith Alliance.
The Jєωιѕн Conservative movement’s Rabbinical Assembly on Wednesday night agreed, expressing its "emphatic" opposition to the Alabama decision: "Jєωιѕн tradition cherishes the sanctity of life, including the potential of life which a pregnant woman carries within her, but does not believe that personhood and human rights begin with conception, but rather with birth, as indicated by Exodus 21:22-23.
[img width= height=]https://images.haarets.co.il/image/upload/w_1572,h_1178,x_64,y_238,c_crop,g_north_west/w_625,h_361,q_auto,c_fill,f_auto/fl_any_format.preserve_transparency.progressive:none/v1557994805/1.7248224.3438770100.jpg[/img]Pro-choice supporters protest the Alabama state Senate vote on the strictest anti-abortion bill in the United States. Montgomery, Alabama, U.S. May 14, 2019\ CHRISTOPHER ALUKA BERRY/ REUTE
"Denying a woman and her family full access to the complete spectrum of reproductive healthcare, including contraception, abortion-inducing devices, and abortions, among others, on religious grounds, deprives women of their Constitutional right to religious freedom."

The Supreme Court’s decision in Roe was based not on a determination of when life begins but rather on a woman’s right to privacy and autonomy through the first trimester. That jives with Judaism’s classical understanding of when life begins. The first 40 days, or close to 6 weeks, are a period in which the тαℓмυd says a pregnancy is "like water."
The Mishna states that even a woman who is nine months pregnantmay be executed if that is the punishment meted out to her for committing a crime. Her execution may not be delayed to spare the pregnancy unless she has already begun to give birth, since the fetus is not a person.
Debating when life begins is an unwinnable fight. Each person’s view depends on their religious and political positions.
Instead the legal battle over the new laws like Alabama’s can be based on the Constitutional right to the free exercise of religion. Can government privilege one religion’s view of when life begins over another’s?
As a Jєωιѕн woman and mother of daughters, I know this fight is of vital importance to every woman who discovers she is pregnant and does not want to be. But it is also of fundamental importance to the civil rights and religious freedom of every American Jew.
Just as no law can obligate us to share the religious beliefs of evangelical Christians, neither should a law demand that we share their view of when life begins.

Debra Nussbaum Cohen
[/font][/size]

JezusDeKoning · « **Reply #28 on:** May 16, 2019, 10:29:47 PM »

Judaism itself is not pro-life. There are individual "scholars" (it's cognitive dissonance in religious doctrine, worse than Protestantism) who are, but most of them believe what the тαℓмυd believes: that before the 40th day, the fetus is "just water" and not really human.

The more liberal Jews have no morals, period.

B USC90 · « **Reply #29 on:** May 17, 2019, 12:46:51 PM »

Quote

However, there have been studies done showing that women and girls are often forced or convinced to have an abortion by their mothers, dads, schoolmates, boyfriends, lovers, doctors, nurses, teachers, etc.

Quit making excuses for those women. Nobody put them in handcuffs and drove them to an abortion center, and put a gun to their head, and forced them to allow a doctor to butcher out the unborn baby.

They went to the baby killers on their own power and by their own free will.

Less than 1% might have their food or drink spiked with an abortion pill against their knowledge, which would excuse them from the sin of murder because they didn't freely choose to kill their unborn baby.

CathInfo.com

Author Topic: Alabama Effectively Outlaws Abortion (Read 5698 times)

Maria Regina

Re: Alabama Effectively Outlaws Abortion

Maria Regina

Re: Alabama Effectively Outlaws Abortion

josefamenendez

Re: Alabama Effectively Outlaws Abortion

JezusDeKoning

Re: Alabama Effectively Outlaws Abortion

B USC90

Re: Alabama Effectively Outlaws Abortion