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Author Topic: Gluten free hosts  (Read 7688 times)

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Offline TheRealMcCoy

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Gluten free hosts
« on: January 20, 2024, 08:52:02 AM »
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  • Is a gluten-free communion host a valid Eucharist?

    Online St Giles

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    Re: Gluten free hosts
    « Reply #1 on: January 20, 2024, 09:46:43 AM »
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  • No, but low gluten 0.01% gluten hosts are available for those with the allergy. They are often erroneously called gluten free, partly because low gluten doesn't sound very reassuring. Looking at the number 0.01% (0.0001) is reassuring, though.
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"


    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: Gluten free hosts
    « Reply #2 on: January 20, 2024, 09:49:14 AM »
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  • I recently read that it is no real bread if there is no gluten.

    I wonder if it is true.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Gluten free hosts
    « Reply #3 on: January 20, 2024, 09:50:36 AM »
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  • From what I understand, it would not be or would at least be highly doubtful.  I don't know of any gluten-free flour products that actually contain wheat.

    For those who have gluten sensitivity (several of my family), if you use an ancient form of wheat like einkorn or emmer/farro, you should have a lot less issues.  As I said, I have family who react badly to gluten (migraine headaches, stomach issues, etc.), but we made loaves of farro bread, and nobody had even the slightest reaction to it.

    Most people don't know but most modern wheat is in fact generically altered by "big wheat" for various commercial purposes (not by today's methods though).  What Our Lord would have used would have been some variety closer to einkorn or emmer.  I've long advocated returning to those for hosts.  There's no question of validity, since the issue is whether it has the accidents of bread and would be recognized as such, but why use a big-wheat-adulterated form of wheat when the ancient grains are still around and available?

    If you're not deathly allergic, perhaps the priest could give you a very small fragment of the host (instead of the usual size) or sometimes will give you Holy Communion under the species of wine using a spoon (as the Eastern Rites do).  But even though some of my family are gluten-sensitive (as described above), none of them has ever had issues with receiving the Holy Communion host.  I personally don't believe (my pious belief) that Our Lord would allow the Body of Christ to do harm to anyone (regardless of the accidents).  I know a Ruthenian Eastern Rite priest who rebelled against his bishop when the bishop imposed all the COVID restrictions, because he strongly held that Holy Communion could never transmit a virus due to God's protection.  Alas, he went Eastern Orthodox.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Gluten free hosts
    « Reply #4 on: January 20, 2024, 09:55:14 AM »
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  • I believe that modern gluten sensitivity is due to a combination of the genetically adulterated wheat and the use of glyphosate (RoundUp) on wheat crops.  Our Lord would not have chosen something that is so "bad" for this many people.  Until the last few decades, gluten sensitivity was not even a thing and never heard of.

    There's a book out there called "Wheat Belly" which attributes the issues people have with obesity in modern society with the modified wheat from big-agra / big-wheat, and I believe the glyphosate contributed mightily as well.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Gluten free hosts
    « Reply #5 on: January 20, 2024, 10:02:04 AM »
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  • No, but low gluten 0.01% gluten hosts are available for those with the allergy. They are often erroneously called gluten free, partly because low gluten doesn't sound very reassuring. Looking at the number 0.01% (0.0001) is reassuring, though.

    I'd be highly suspicious of these.  One I saw online contain a whole bunch of other ingredients (you almost have to in order to replace wheat, and wheat inherently contains gluten).  Here are the ingredients one that I found.

    Contains: water, garbanzo bean flour, potato starch, tapioca flour, whole grain sweet white sorghum flour, fava bean flour, palm oil

    This would be 100% invalid for transubstantiation, and even if you could find some that contain some wheat, you can't have all these other ingredients in it.  I think these types would only be used by Prots, who don't really believe in transubstantiation anywa.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Gluten free hosts
    « Reply #6 on: January 20, 2024, 10:05:09 AM »
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  • Here's a "Catholic" one, which I also hold would be invalid.  Is this really bread, where the main ingredient is starch and they stick a tiny amount of flour into it?  Just because they can get it to sortof look like bread doesn't make it bread.  To me, this would be like putting too much water into the wine at Holy Communion time, which if it's too diluted would be held to be invalid.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Gluten free hosts
    « Reply #7 on: January 20, 2024, 10:13:05 AM »
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  • https://www.sturgisjournal.com/story/news/columns/2017/04/06/grains-bible/15276854007/
    Quote
    The Bible references grains. However, the grains consumed a couple thousand years ago are nothing near the grains we consume today.

    In Jesus' time, there were three major wheat varieties: Einkorn, Emmer, and Spelt.  These grains had and have a higher protein content and lower anti-nutrient content than the grains of today.  This is because today's 25,000+ species were created in a lab to be disease resistant or produce higher yields. However, in order to achieve this, scientists had to enhance their glutens, lectins and phytates, which can be harmful to our body. This is likely why the hybridized strains of wheat produce allergy reactions while the ancient, un-hybridized wheats show little to no reaction, especially Einkorn.

    I've also seen some evidence to back up the fact that the excessive lectins can be bad for you as well, in addition to the excess gluten.  The were all made by big agra "in a lab to be disease resistant or produce higher yields" ... aka for $$$, and this is compounded by their generous use of glyphosate.

    Uhm, maybe they're disease resistant because even the vermin don't want this stuff and don't recognize it as real food.'

    If there are any groups of Traditional nuns/monks/brothers who make Communion hosts, I would highly recommend that they look into using Emmer or Einkorn for Communion hosts, natural bread as God intended it and created it, and which He would not have chosen for the Blessed Sacrament if it was harmful to so many people.  I'm confident that this would cause the modern gluten-free Communion crisis to evaporate.


    Online St Giles

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    Re: Gluten free hosts
    « Reply #8 on: January 20, 2024, 10:20:37 AM »
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  • If I remember, I'll see what we keep on hand, but I think it's just "wheat flour and water"
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"

    Offline Emile

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    Re: Gluten free hosts
    « Reply #9 on: January 20, 2024, 10:30:18 AM »
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  • I recall a somewhat similar discussion in the last few years. A member or two who were prone to an allergic reaction to wheat said that the Priest would reserve a bit of the Precious Blood and administer it to them. (I don't recall if it was at the same time as other communicants or given privately after Mass.) It would seem to be the safer course rather than using doubtful matter.
    If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?

    ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

    Online St Giles

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    Re: Gluten free hosts
    « Reply #10 on: January 20, 2024, 10:36:39 AM »
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  • That used to take place where I'm at, but was later replaced with low gluten hosts. Why? Maybe convenience, and decreased risk of spilling  drop of Precious Blood. One priest I asked about it was surprised the Precious blood was spooned out, but I can't remember his reason for finding that unfavorable.
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Gluten free hosts
    « Reply #11 on: January 20, 2024, 11:49:28 AM »
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  • I recall a somewhat similar discussion in the last few years. A member or two who were prone to an allergic reaction to wheat said that the Priest would reserve a bit of the Precious Blood and administer it to them. (I don't recall if it was at the same time as other communicants or given privately after Mass.) It would seem to be the safer course rather than using doubtful matter.

    I agree, but has anyone every received valid Holy Communion and reported some kind of adverse reaction?  I've never heard of it, even for someone who is allergic to wheat.  If I had a wheat allergy, I'd go receive Holy Communion anyway, trusting that God would not allow (even the accidents of) Holy Communion to do me any harm.

    Offline Soubirous

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    Re: Gluten free hosts
    « Reply #12 on: January 20, 2024, 12:22:25 PM »
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  • A 100% wheat host from regular commercial flour has how much flour in it, a fraction of a teaspoon. Any gastro/respiratory/dermal reaction is probably more from power of suggestion than anything else.

    That said, what would be cost increment for using einkorn/emmer/spelt for everyone?
    Let nothing disturb you, let nothing frighten you, all things pass away: God never changes. Patience obtains all things. He who has God finds he lacks nothing; God alone suffices. - St. Teresa of Jesus

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Gluten free hosts
    « Reply #13 on: January 20, 2024, 01:09:12 PM »
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  • A 100% wheat host from regular commercial flour has how much flour in it, a fraction of a teaspoon. Any gastro/respiratory/dermal reaction is probably more from power of suggestion than anything else.

    That said, what would be cost increment for using einkorn/emmer/spelt for everyone?

    Yes, I've thought that as well, where the amount of wheat/flour/gluten in a host would be so small anyway that it would hardly elicit any reaction.  I just think there are a lot of attention-getters out there who want to get their "special" Communion.  In one Ruthenian Eastern Rite church, there's one woman who gets her little mini-chalice because in the Eastern Rite, the wheat / bread is intermingled in the chalice with the wine, and so even if she just received the wine species, there might be a few molecules of wheat/gluten in it.  I always found this utterly absurd.  But she went up all by herself to receive her own special Holy Communion.

    As for the cost, as you said, we're talking about such a small amount of flour, that it could hardly amount to much more than 1 or 2 cents per host tops, to use einkorn/emmer.  Not only does it have less gluten, but it avoids having to use human-butchered and engineered wheat in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass vs. the natural wheat that developed as God had intended.

    Offline songbird

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    Re: Gluten free hosts
    « Reply #14 on: January 20, 2024, 02:03:01 PM »
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  • gluten free?  First, if we have a valid priest, then it becomes Christ.  My daughter is gluten free and takes the full size host, Christ.  Also, even a crumb is all and totally Christ.