Author Topic: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration (Read 11176 times)

Ladislaus · « **Reply #45 on:** February 26, 2018, 03:01:24 PM »

So please articulate rationally ... without the inflammatory language ... what, theologically, do you object to in the St. Louis de Montfort mariology?

Ladislaus · « **Reply #46 on:** February 26, 2018, 03:05:47 PM »

Quote from: PG on January 30, 2018, 05:05:28 PM

it is murder, because only Christ has the right to life and death over any and all human beings

Ultimately, yes, only God has this right, properly speaking, but it can be delegated. So, do you consider the death penalty to be immoral?

Ladislaus · « **Reply #47 on:** February 26, 2018, 03:07:47 PM »

Quote from: PG on January 30, 2018, 05:05:28 PM

And, neither does a temporal queen have the right to execute the churches decision in this matter. That right belongs to "the prince".

... who can delegate it to whom He chooses.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #48 on:** February 26, 2018, 03:11:45 PM »

Quote from: PG on January 30, 2018, 05:05:28 PM

And, it consists in his denial of merit. Merit is a catholic teaching. If we are in heaven, we have merits with us. Its reverse is also true. If we do not have merits with us, we are not in heaven. So much for giving up all of our merits as de montfort promotes

pffft. There's a difference between general supernatural merit and actual merit.

Take the soul of an infant who dies immediately after Baptism. While this child ends up in heaven, he has no actual merits from supernaturally-meritorious deeds.

Sloppy theology on your part.

And the Church would not have canonized this man had he taught the grave errors you accuse him of. You cause grave scandal to the faith in denouncing this canonized saint and his teaching in such strong terms.

PG · « **Reply #49 on:** February 26, 2018, 03:54:18 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on February 26, 2018, 03:11:45 PM

Take the soul of an infant who dies immediately after Baptism. While this child ends up in heaven, he has no actual merits from supernaturally-meritorious deeds.

And the Church would not have canonized this man had he taught the grave errors you accuse him of. You cause grave scandal to the faith in denouncing this canonized saint and his teaching in such strong terms.

"And Jesus said to them: Yea, have you never read: Out of the mouth of infants and of sucklings thou hast perfected praise?"

You are not so critical of Pius XII now. He "opened the floodgates" as you say, he elevated all the clerics who were responsible for vatican 2, he forwarded evolution, and he promoted NFP. But, he like or unlike all the rest of the novus ordo popes could never have been fallible in respect to canonizing someone who is not a saint? At least trust me here, his canonization and its details is not in the slightest the hallmark of my argument against him. I simply was providing hollingsworth with correct facts.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #50 on:** February 26, 2018, 06:18:43 PM »

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Do you, PG, think that Our Lady should check with you first, before she gives any messages in apparitions to Catholics?
.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #51 on:** February 26, 2018, 06:20:28 PM »

Quote from: PG on February 26, 2018, 03:54:18 PM

You are not so critical of Pius XII now. He "opened the floodgates" as you say, he elevated all the clerics who were responsible for vatican 2, he forwarded evolution, and he promoted NFP. But, he like or unlike all the rest of the novus ordo popes could never have been fallible in respect to canonizing someone who is not a saint?

Uhm, no, because canonizations are protected by papal infallibility. Nor am I critical of Pius XII having defined the dogma of the Assumption. So, because I'm critical of Pius XII on some things, I'm supposed to denounce everything he did?

So, where's your rebuttal to my point regarding merit? Just this ad hominem?

What "merits" do unbaptized infants who die before having reached the age of reason have in heaven?

PG · « **Reply #52 on:** February 26, 2018, 07:47:47 PM »

Ladislaus - you do not have a point regarding merit. You are a bum theologian. You have contributed nothing legitimate to the conversation.

Cantarella · « **Reply #53 on:** February 27, 2018, 12:00:19 AM »

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The mass conversion of Israel toward the end of the world is a well-known prophecy among the Saints. In fact, St. Paul spends the entire 11th chapter of his letter to the Romans on this very point, warning the Gentiles not to become too proud on account of their own conversion, because it will come to an end: “For I will not have you ignorant, brethren, of this mystery (that you be not wise in yourselves) that blindness in part hath chanced in Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles might enter: and so all Israel might be saved…” (Romans 11:25) The conversion of the descendants of Israel, then, is a well known prophecy. Moreover, as everyone knows, the Israelites are the “Firstborn” of God. This being the case, they are entitled to a greater share of the Inheritance – a double share, if I understand the law properly. In the case of this particular Consecration, that Inheritance means a greater amount of grace on earth, and of glory in the Kingdom of Heaven.

This is very interesting. I re-read Romans 11 and studied the biblical annotations and they definitely support a certain predilection for the Israelites. It seems that Heaven is open to the Gentiles, for a limited time (until God recruits as many souls he wants). As St. Paul says, until the fullness of the Gentiles might enter; so we know that the rejection of the Jews is not meant to be for ever; but for a finite time only. God did turn the Jews fall from Grace temporarily into the good of the Gentiles; but much more He will work good for the Jews' general conversion before the End of Times; and the Church accomplishment will consist of both Nations.

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In respect, or as concerning belief in Christ and receiving the Gospel, they (Jews) are God's enemies: by occasion of which their incredulity, the Gentiles found mercy: otherwise in respect of his special election of that nation, and the promises made to the Patriarcs, the Jews are dear to him still. For God never promiseth but he performeth, nor repented himself of the privileges given to that nation.

Cantarella · « **Reply #54 on:** February 27, 2018, 12:41:36 AM »

Quote from: PG on February 01, 2018, 11:50:24 AM

Lastly, we cannot without Christ regain "original holiness" or whatever de montfort said that you quoted about by going back to being like adam and even in the garden. The garden of paradise was closed to man with the fall, and it is only opened through salvation in Christ Jesus. It was by Eve that man fell. I am not going to participate in a repeat. Jesus is God. And, he is not Alone. He is with the Father and the Holy Ghost.

It is not an either / or proposition; but the perfect cooperation between the New Adam (Christ) and the New Eve (Mary). It is not as if Our Blessed Mother wants the glory all for herself, in a spirit of competition with Christ. As any mother worth the title would perfectly understand, Our Lady does not wish us to go to Herself as the center; but wishes us to go to Her Son instead, our true and only Savior. She does not compete with Her Son in the process of human regeneration; but literally takes our hands to HIM. Holy Mary is not like a mother who refuses to let her children be the center of attention. Her great desire is to decrease that Her Divine Son may increase.

Croix de Fer · « **Reply #55 on:** February 27, 2018, 02:03:57 AM »

Quote from: sedevacantist on January 30, 2018, 12:19:46 PM

The mass conversion of Israel toward the end of the world is a well-known prophecy among the Saints.

Firstly, the true Israel is the Catholic Church. It's not a geographical land mapped out by the United Nations in 1948. The Catholic Church is, essentially, the Bosom of Abraham. Just as before the Son became flesh and dwelt among us, only the righteous in the Bosom of Abraham were to be saved when Christ opened the gates of Heaven for them by His Divine Sacrifice, it is only baptized Catholics, who die in the state of grace, who enter Heaven.

Secondly, what mass conversion? "Mass" is a relative word. Only a minority of the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan will convert to the Catholic Church before Jesus returns. Two-thirds of the Jews will be exterminated as punishment for their rejection of God. This is the prophesy. It's in Zacharias 13:8-9

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sedevacantist says:
The conversion of the descendants of Israel, then, is a well known prophecy.

What descendants? After the Diaspora, the ѕуηαgσgυє lost their biological lineage to David when they mixed with, and converted, Khazars and, subsequently, mixing with some locals of European host nations. They're not biologically descended from David, nor are they spiritually descended from Abraham, for if they were the latter, they would have accepted Jesus Christ as the only true God and Messiah.

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sedevacantist says:
Moreover, as everyone knows, the Israelites are the “Firstborn” of God.

Your fallacy is conflating the true Israelites who lived before, and at the time of, Jesus Christ, with the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan, who are those who say they are Jews, but lie (Revelation 2:9 & 3:9).

Try learning the Catholic Faith before you espouse your subtle Jew apologetics and Zionism.

Cantarella · « **Reply #56 on:** February 27, 2018, 09:58:47 AM »

Quote from: Croix de Fer on February 27, 2018, 02:03:57 AM

What descendants? After the Diaspora, the ѕуηαgσgυє lost their biological lineage to David when they mixed with, and converted, Khazars and, subsequently, mixing with some locals of European host nations. They're not biologically descended from David, nor are they spiritually descended from Abraham, for if they were the latter, they would have accepted Jesus Christ as the only true God and Messiah.

Your fallacy is conflating the true Israelites who lived before, and at the time of, Jesus Christ, with the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan, who are those who say they are Jews, but lie (Revelation 2:9 & 3:9).

Are you saying that there are not true Israelites left in the world (in the physical sense the OP is referring to - of course not present day "Israel")? And if so, which specifically are the Jews that the "predilection" and future conversion are referred to in Romans 11?.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #57 on:** February 27, 2018, 10:03:36 AM »

Quote from: PG on February 26, 2018, 07:47:47 PM

Ladislaus - you do not have a point regarding merit. You are a bum theologian. You have contributed nothing legitimate to the conversation.

Then it should be easy for you to answer my question.

You claim that no one can be in heaven without merits?

In the case of an infant who dies shortly after Baptism, the infant would be in heaven. What merits does said infant have?

Pax Vobis · « **Reply #58 on:** February 27, 2018, 10:37:13 AM »

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In the case of an infant who dies shortly after Baptism, the infant would be in heaven. What merits does said infant have?

The act of baptism is an act of Faith, therefore that is a meritorious act, is it not? The infant does not request baptism of his own will, but the Church allows its Godparents to request this sacrament and to request the Faith, therefore that act, of being admitted to the Church is enough to merit heaven, right?

Pax Vobis · « **Reply #59 on:** February 27, 2018, 10:46:24 AM »

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If we do not have merits with us, we are not in heaven.

PG, this is not true. Any catholic has earned supernatural merit at some point in their life. Doesn't mean they will gain heaven. Ergo, those who go to hell still have merit, and still may have done good works, but they did not have a 'wedding garment' therefore they were cast outside of the wedding feast.

Merits and sanctifying grace are 2 different things. As Christ paid the workers in the field the same denarius, regardless of how long each had actually worked, so Christ offers all of us heaven, regardless of the amount of our merit. Certainly those with more merit will have a higher place and glory in heaven, but one can still get to heaven 'in the last hour'.

As for the rest of your comments, I don't agree with 99% of them and I don't have time to debate. You are all over the place...

Author Topic: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration (Read 11176 times)

Ladislaus

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Ladislaus

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Ladislaus

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PG

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Neil Obstat

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Ladislaus

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PG

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Cantarella

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Cantarella

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Croix de Fer

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Cantarella

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Ladislaus

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Pax Vobis

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Pax Vobis

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