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Traditional Catholic Faith => General Discussion => Topic started by: sedevacantist on January 30, 2018, 12:19:46 PM

Title: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: sedevacantist on January 30, 2018, 12:19:46 PM

What I’m going to try and explain in this letter is an unknown secret regarding the devotion known as Consecration to the Mother of God (a.k.a. the De Montfort Consecration). It's a secret which is vital to realize if one wishes to fully understand the devotion.  

Consecration to the Mother of God is a familiar devotion among many devout Catholics. It is also an ancient one. Although no one is really sure just how old it is, it’s been said that St. John Damascene practiced it as early as the 700’s. Granted, the particulars have already been developed by blessed Louis De Montfort in his famous book entitled True Devotion – an indispensable book for anyone hoping to understand the rudiments of this consecration. Nevertheless, I believe there is a need to put this devotion into its proper prospective. In other words, what I would like to do here is try and paint what I perceive as the “Big Picture”. The reason being, I think in order to truly appreciate this practice, it is essential to understand it in its fullest scope.  

Before getting started, I would like to recount some historical facts which serve to prove the authenticity and renown of this devotion. With this information, it should be clear that this is a practice which is not only of great antiquity, but praised by Saints and scholars alike. The following information is taken from De Montfort’s book, True Devotion:  
The first real evidence we have of the existence of this Consecration appears in the writings of the famous Abbot of Cluny, St. Odilon, who lived in the 11th century. Since then, a number of Saints have consecrated themselves to the Mother of God. Among the most famous are St. Bernard, St. Bonaventure, St. Ephrem, St. Bernardine of Sienna, and St. Francis de Sales. The devotion was carried out mostly in private, however, and didn’t become known to the public until the 16oo’s. Thereafter, it was established in Sicily and Savoy by the Theatine Fathers; Poland and Bavaria by the Jesuits; and all across France by the holy Cardinal de Berulle. Father Simon de Roias, of the Order of the Holy Trinity, spread knowledge of this Consecration throughout all of Spain and Germany. Later, he obtained rich indulgences from Pope Gregory XV for all those who practiced it. At the same time, an Augustinian monk and good friend of the same Fr. De Roias, composed a book entitled Hierarchia Mariana, in which he gives a thorough account of the antiquity of this devotion, listing the names of princes, princesses, dukes, and cardinals who practiced it.  

As one can see then, this Consecration is quite ancient, and certainly well founded. Nonetheless, it is peculiar to note that despite its antiquity, and the fact that numerous attempts have been made to spread knowledge of its existence throughout the world, it still remains scarcely known among the general populace today; and, although many so-called Catholics are aware of its existence, it is scarcely practiced. Moreover, it would seem that even among those who do practice it, it is hardly understood. It is truly a wonder that this devotion of Consecration continues in relative obscurity to this day – yes, even among the Saints. Stranger still, is the fact that notwithstanding this obscurity, it is one of the greatest devotions in the history of Christianity.  

Surely, I must be exaggerating, you say? If it’s such a great devotion, then why is it so scarcely practiced, and so little understood after so many centuries of existence? Well, I believe there are two reasons for this: First of all, because of its great importance, the devil has been trying very hard to frustrate any knowledge of this devotion. We find a classic example of this fact in the life of Blessed Louis De Montfort himself. This holy man knew better than anyone the hardships encountered by those attempting to spread this devotion. He was kicked out of every single diocese in France—with the exception of two—because he championed Consecration to the Blessed Virgin Mary. Even in the dioceses from which he was not immediately banned, he was nonetheless prevented from preaching and dispensing the Sacraments. Mind you, these were not strongholds of the bewitched Protestants who were opposing him, but Catholic bishops and Catholic priests. These were Catholic dioceses and Catholic cities and Catholic villages he was being run out of. One can only imagine the frustration he suffered – and this went on day after day, and year after year. At length he was poisoned, and although this didn’t immediately kill him, it destroyed his health enough so that he eventually succuмbed. Fortunately, he had already finished his famous book, True Devotion, in which he explains the basics of this consecration. Even so, the devil was so intent on stifling any knowledge of the book that he managed to keep it from public view by stashing it in an old box after the holy man’s death, where it lay hidden for an entire century. Interestingly enough, this action of the devil was carried out exactly as De Montfort had prophesied: “I foresee clearly that angry beasts trembling with fury, will arise to rend with their satanic teeth this little book, and him whom the Holy Ghost has used to write it; or at least they will strive to stifle it in the dumb silence of a forgotten box, so that it may be swallowed up in oblivion.” So then, this is the first reason why I believe that Consecration to the Mother of God is hardly known and practiced today – the devil has been working very hard to prevent even the knowledge of its existence.

The second reason, I believe, is because it is primarily an inheritance of the descendants of the ancient Israelites – that is, the ones who will convert to Christianity toward the end of the world. In other words, I believe it was never really intended for the “Gentile” Church to begin with – only, perhaps, as something to be roughly developed and then handed on to its rightful heirs. It’s an inheritance meant for the Children of Israel – that is, the actual physical descendants of the Hebrew nation.

The mass conversion of Israel toward the end of the world is a well-known prophecy among the Saints. In fact, St. Paul spends the entire 11th chapter of his letter to the Romans on this very point, warning the Gentiles not to become too proud on account of their own conversion, because it will come to an end: “For I will not have you ignorant, brethren, of this mystery (that you be not wise in yourselves) that blindness in part hath chanced in Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles might enter: and so all Israel might be saved…” (Romans 11:25) The conversion of the descendants of Israel, then, is a well known prophecy. Moreover, as everyone knows, the Israelites are the “Firstborn” of God. This being the case, they are entitled to a greater share of the Inheritance – a double share, if I understand the law properly. In the case of this particular Consecration, that Inheritance means a greater amount of grace on earth, and of glory in the Kingdom of Heaven. This belief in a superabundance of grace afforded the converted Israelites toward the end of the world is not a belief that I came up with myself. There are a number of Saints who have said this. Saint Vincent Ferrier and Bl. Louis De Montfort are just two such advocates of this position. In his book, De Montfort attributes this vast increase of grace to the fact that they will be wholly consecrated to Mary. In fact, he states that because of this Consecration to the Mother of God, these same Israelites “would surpass the majority of the other Saints in sanctity, as much as the cedars of Lebanon exceed in grandeur and magnificence the hyssop of the valleys.”  

In short then, I do not believe that this Consecration was ultimately intended for the Gentiles, but as a Living Inheritance for the descendants of Israel. For this reason, and because of the fact that the Devil has been fighting hard to prevent its spread, I believe this Consecration exists in relative obscurity to this day. That being said, I would now like to delve briefly into the meaning of this particular Consecration as it is explained by Bl. Louis De Montfort in his famous book True Devotion – then I will develop what I perceive as The Big Picture, or the “secret” behind this devotion.

First, a word about the Mother of God herself – quoted directly from True Devotion: “I hold with the entire Church, that, in comparison with the infinite majesty of the Most High God, Mary is no more than a mere creature formed by His hand; that, in the light of such a comparison, she is less than an atom—nay more, that she is nothing, since only He Who Is has existence as of Himself. Consequently, this great Lord, eternally independent and sufficient unto Himself, had absolutely no need—and still has no need—of the Blessed Virgin for the fulfillment of His designs and for the manifestation of His glory. He has merely to wish, and all is fulfilled.”

Such are the words of Bl. Louis de Montfort. In truth, the same can be said of any of us humans – and even the angels for that matter. We are nothing in the sight of the Almighty God. Nor can anything that exists in all of creation compare to the infinite majesty and holiness of the Godhead. Even the unfathomable grandeur of Heaven itself is impure in His eyes, as we read in the book of Job. Nonetheless, among us lowly creatures, there is a vast difference between our dignity, and that of the Virgin Mother – for who can deny that the Son of God, Himself, was not only formed in her very womb, but received His actual Flesh and Blood from her? No doubt such an action on the part of God is the single greatest testimony of Mary’s integrity, holiness, and dignity – and undoubtedly the greatest tribute ever paid to a mere creature. Nor, I suspect, is it even possible to comprehend a greater tribute or privilege among us humans. No, in all of creation there is not found such an honorable state as that of the “Mother of God” – nor even the slightest resemblance. Let us keep in mind, then, the great dignity of this woman, whom all generations will call blessed.

Let us remember also that it was into her arms that Almighty God placed Himself as a helpless infant – unreservedly, unhesitatingly, and unashamed – unable so much as to feed, cloth, or even move Himself. Without fear, He placed His entire being and life into the care of her maternal heart – the most pure, most faithful, and most loving in all of creation. In like manner, this Consecration requires that we do the same. It requires that we place ourselves and our lives entirely into her care. In other words, we are to give the Mother of God dominion over our body, soul, spirit, mind, heart, and will. From now on, everything we do; everything we think; everything we say; and everything we intend to think, say, or do, is placed into her care. We yield her the absolute right to govern all of our thoughts, actions, and intentions. We evermore pray for her maternal guidance in our lives, submitting our powers of reason to her wisdom and counsel, waiting for her to enlighten our mind and govern our thoughts and plans. We pay close attention to the circuмstances of our daily life – wherein is very often found her guiding hand, as well as her gentle admonitions.  

Moreover, one consecrated to the Mother of God trusts unhesitatingly in her powerful intercession, and entertains a profound gratitude for her boundless mercy and generosity; remembering always the words of the Saints: that she dispenses grace to whomever she wishes, whenever she wishes, however she wishes, and to whatever extent she wishes – for because she agreed to give the world its Savior, she in turn is granted the Divine favor of giving His graces to the world. Bl. Louis De Montfort tells us: “God the Son has communicated to His Mother all that He has gained by His life and His death, His infinite merits and His admirable virtues, and He has made her the dispenser of all that His Father has given Him as His inheritance.” It is a tremendous blessing for so loving a Mother, and one that she enjoys and cherishes with all her heart – for what mother would not enjoy giving to her own children the unfathomable gifts of Heaven?  

De Montfort continues: “To His faithful Spouse, Mary, the Holy Ghost has communicated His ineffable gifts, and He has chosen her to be the dispensatrix of all that He possesses, so that she distributes to whom she wishes, as she wishes, and when she wishes, all His gifts and graces. She was full of grace when the Archangel Gabriel saluted her, and she was given grace in superabundance when the Holy Ghost overshadowed her with His ineffable presence. This double fullness of grace, she has so augmented from day to day, and from moment to moment, that she has reached a height of immense and astounding grace, to such an extent that God has made her the unique treasurer of His riches and the sole dispensatrix of His graces, in order that she may ennoble, exalt and enrich whomever she chooses; that she may guide whomever she chooses through the straight way leading to Heaven; that she may preserve, in the midst of dangers, their steps through the narrow gate; and that she may give to whom she has chosen, the throne, the scepter and the crown of the Heavenly King.” (quoted from True Devotion)

At the same time that we revere her for her exalted role as Mother of God and dispenser of His treasury of graces, we also remember that because her Son is King of Heaven, she, as His mother, necessarily reigns as Queen – for such is the ancient tradition among the Israelites. Undoubtedly, as Mother of God and Queen of Heaven, she deserves to be honored above all creatures. And so, these are the two faces of Consecration to the Mother of God – the one, that we give her honor befitting her glorious station; and the other, that we place our entire being and life into her hands. 

Our Lord Himself gives us a glowing example of this utter dependency when, as a tiny, helpless infant, He placed Himself into her motherly care. We are called to do the same in this devotion. One who desires to consecrate himself to the Immaculate Virgin Mary must truly place his life into her hands – that is, he must put his Consecration into practice. It requires a degree of submission that not many people are capable of. It demands the relinquishing of one’s own will, and the strength to deny one’s strongest passions – passions which very often get us into serious trouble if not mortified; and which continually hinder our spiritual growth. In the words of Bl. Louis de Monfort, one who consecrates himself to the Mother of God must voluntarily become her slave. He must forevermore perform all of his actions for Mary, with Mary, in Mary, and by Mary. He must exercise the same childlike trust and submission exhibited by the Son of God as He reposed in her most pure womb, and in her arms as a helpless infant.

Granted, not many souls, save the great St. Paul, could willingly submit their entire life to the will of God at a moment’s notice. Generally speaking, such submission takes time. Nonetheless, there is nothing within this practice that is not asked of us by the Son of God Himself in the Gospels: “Deny thyself, take up thy cross, and follow Me”. And again, “He who loses his life for My sake, will find it.” In fact, it’s been argued that this Consecration is nothing more than what is promised by all the faithful in the Sacrament of Baptism. Louis De Montfort says that it can easily be called “a perfect renewal of the vows or promises of Holy Baptism”. In short, it is a more perfect keeping of the promises made by everyone in Baptism. Even so, it is essentially the same promise.  

Yet if this were all there was to the Consecration, we might find it a bit discouraging. Nothing I’ve said in regard to the obligations incuмbent upon those who wish to consecrate themselves, appears much different than what we find in the lives of many of the Saints of old. After all, didn’t they sacrifice themselves to a far greater degree than normal Christians? Did they not suffer the most horrific tortures and hardships to spread the message of salvation? To fulfill God’s will on this earth? Did they not carry out to an eminent degree the promises made in Baptism? Yes, they did. And may their souls be duly rewarded for all eternity because of it. But if this is the case then, what is the difference between the sanctity of the Saints of old, and that of the new? What is it that would render the converted Israelites as far above the other Saints in grace and glory “as the cedars of Lebanon are above the hyssop of the valleys”? Herein is the question then: What exactly makes this Consecration so special?

To answer, let me go back to the beginning: 
According to what theology I've read, prior to “The Fall”, Adam and Eve were created as perfect beings - living in peaceful harmony with each other and with the animals, and in perfect union with their Creator and His Holy Will. Their every thought, action, and intention was holy and pure. There was absolutely no trace of pride or selfishness in their behavior; nor the slightest whiff of ingratitude, or covetousness, or anger, or jealousy, or any of the countless faults and imperfections which hopelessly defile even our most virtuous actions today. They were angels on earth, so to speak – “clothed in light” as the Scriptures say. We are told that God Himself was pleased to walk and talk with them as intimate friends in their earthly paradise.  

And then it happened… Adam sinned. He fell from grace. In an instant he lost his beautiful angelic purity and holiness. His soul turned black. Even his physical body began to decay. He was defiled with the ravages of sin and corruption. And through him, our body as well became defiled. Today, because of this first sin, all of our thoughts, actions, and intentions are stained with a myriad of imperfections: selfishness, pride, greed, envy, jealousy, impatience, anger, ingratitude - and the list goes on and on. Even our greatest actions, no matter how virtuous they may appear on the surface, are laden with numerous human faults, however small. Everything we think, say and do, from now until the day we die, will be continually stained with personal faults and impurities, despite even a lifetime of the strictest mortification. Even the great St. Anthony, who, after spending 70 years in almost perpetual mortification in the desert, was, for a short time, overcome with a sense of pride – a circuмstance which led to his eventual discovery of St. Paul the Hermit, who lived unknown in the desert for an amazing 90 years.  

In short, as long as we remain in this fallen nature, we will never, for a minute, be free of the consequences of sin and corruption. In his book, True Spouse, the great Saint and Doctor, Alphonsus de Liguori, says that in our fallen state, it is altogether impossible to do anything without the influence of self-love.
Regarding this fallen nature of ours, De Montfort says, “As leaven sours, raises, and corrupts the dough in which it is placed, even so has the sin of our first parent left its traces in every one of us, souring our souls and filling us with puffed-up conceit. The actual sins we have committed, however perfectly they may be pardoned, have increased our concupiscence, our weakness, our inconstancy, and our corruption, and have left in our souls the grim marks of their passage. Our bodies are so corrupt that the Holy Ghost calls them bodies of sin and capable of every sin – bodies subject to countless diseases, decaying day by day, and engendering only disease, vermin, and corruption.”And he goes on… “United to our body, our soul has become so carnal that it is called flesh: ‘All flesh had corrupted its way’ (Gen. 6:12). What we can declare as our own is simply pride and blindness of spirit, hardness of heart, weakness and inconstancy of soul, concupiscence, unruly passions and bodily disease. By nature, we are prouder than peacocks, more wedded to the earth than toads, fouler than goats, more odious than serpents, more gluttonous than pigs, fiercer than tigers, more slothful than tortoises, more feeble than reeds, and more fickle than weathercocks. Nothingness and sin are the sum of our possessions, and our merits are only God’s anger and eternal Hell.”

Certainly, the difference between the state of original holiness enjoyed by our first parents, and that of our fallen nature at present, is the difference between good and evil, night and day, Heaven and Hell. Yet it must be certain that one of the greatest misfortunes of this fallen state is the loss of innumerable graces and merits due solely to the corruption of our actions. I suspect that if God were to enlighten us as to just how much merit and grace we continually lose every day because of our defiled nature, we might die of sorrow and regret. Regarding this loss, St. Theresa of Avila was given a vision one day of the immense difference between one degree of glory in Heaven, and the next. After this vision she stated that she would “with all her heart, gladly suffer the most painful tortures until the end of time” in order that she might advance that one single degree. Even so, God does not require such heroism as that of suffering the most painful tortures until the end of time in order to advance one degree. St Leonard of Port Maurice tells us that a certain nun was raised 8 degrees of glory for performing eight simple acts of mortification while eating an egg. That's right... eight degrees of glory while eating an egg. With such ease of gaining unfathomable glory and merit in Heaven, can one possibly begin to measure just how much is lost through the perpetual defilement of our every action? It is only through the infinite mercy of God that we are spared the agonizing truth. This immense loss of grace and its corresponding loss of glory in Heaven is undoubtedly one of the greatest misfortunes of our fallen state. 
 
Yet imagine for a moment that there was a means of turning the clock back – of reversing the effects of our fallen nature. That is, of regaining the benefits of original holiness. Imagine for a moment that there was a way of once again enjoying the benefit of absolute purity in our thoughts, actions, and intentions – a way of rendering them as pure and holy as those of our first parents in the Garden of Eden. In other words, imagine that our Heavenly Father was now offering mankind a means of repairing the consequences of Adam’s fall – that is, of overcoming the ravages of sin, and the loss of near infinite amounts of grace because of our sinful and corrupted state.     

THIS is what Consecration to the Queen of Heaven is all about. It’s about regaining the benefits of original holiness – of turning the clock back, as it were – of repairing the miserable consequences of our fallen nature. But how can this be? How is it possible to reverse the fallen state of man? Well, first of all, we’re not talking about reversing the fallen state of man. No, this unfortunate condition is our curse for the sin of Adam, and the innumerable sins that we commit every day of our lives. Only the Son of God and His Blessed Mother lived and died without sin, free of this curse. Instead, what De Montfort is talking about is regaining the benefits of Original Holiness, and not Original Holiness itself. He is talking about repairing the consequences of our fallen nature – not the fallen nature itself. And herein is the great secret of this devotion. What Bl. Louis de Montfort is telling us is that when we consecrate ourselves to the Mother of God, she faithfully purifies all of our good actions. In a word, she perfects them. She renders them as holy as if they were performed by the Angels themselves. This Consecration, then, is a way of purifying our thoughts, actions, and intentions – not our body, mind, and soul. This is what the Consecration affords us. It’s a means of purifying our actions, despite the intrinsic corruption of our fallen nature.  

This degree of purity is something the Saints of old were hopelessly incapable of accomplishing through their endless mortifications and austerities – no matter how long they lived, or how hard they tried. Certainly, through mortification, they managed to cleanse their actions of a certain degree of impurity and faults; yet, even then, their most virtuous actions fell far short of the absolute purity and holiness enjoyed by Adam and Eve in their actions prior to The Fall; and, undoubtedly, the Saints would be the first to admit it. Despite his obvious sanctity, for example, St. Francis of Assisi truly believed he was the greatest sinner on earth. This great Saint, and many more like him humble enough to see themselves through God’s eyes, knew how corrupted and prone to sin mankind is in this fallen nature. There are far too many examples of the Saints’ profound humility to list here. Suffice it to say, they will be the first to testify that there is an immense difference between the actions of one born in a corrupted and fallen state, and those carried out by one who is absolutely pure, holy, and sinless, as were our Lord and His Blessed Mother. 

This vast difference in grace and merit enjoyed by those consecrated to Mary, as opposed to the ordinary sinner, is but one reason why the sanctity of the consecrated Israelites will far surpass that of the Saints of old. The difference, then, is in the amount of grace and merit they will acquire through the practice of this Consecration – that is, on account of the merits gained from actions, thoughts, and intentions absolutely purified of all stain and corruption.

And how is this purification possible? Well, as it is, much of what surrounds this Consecration is a mystery. No one, including blessed Louis de Montfort, has claimed to know exactly how it happens. We just know that it does. De Montfort says that in virtue of our faithful consecration to the Mother of God, she in turn cleanses all of our actions, all of our thoughts, and all of our intentions. That is to say, they are still naturally laden with countless imperfections as they proceed from our corrupted selves; yet, somehow, by virtue of our having consecrated our entire being, and all that we do, our actions are secretly rendered absolutely pure and holy by Mary’s hand.  

Blessed De Montfort explains: “Since, by this practice of perfect devotion, we give to our Lord, by the hand of His Blessed Mother, all our good works, this good Mother purifies them, embellishes them, and causes them to be accepted by her Divine Son. She purifies them of every stain of self-love, and from that imperceptible attachment to the creature which insinuates itself into our best actions. When our good works are given into the all pure and fruitful hands of Mary, these same hands, which have never been soiled or idle and which purify what they touch, will cleanse of everything that could render it tainted or imperfect, the gift which we make to her.”

And he adds: “But the Blessed Virgin, to whom we have fully relinquished the value and the merit of any good works we may do, knows perfectly where the greatest glory of God is to be sought, and acts in all things solely to procure this greatest glory. Hence, a perfect servant of the good Mistress, who has consecrated himself entirely to her, can boldly claim that the value of all his thoughts, words and actions is being used for the greatest glory of God.”

In summary then, a benefit that has been practically lost to the human race for the last 6000 years is now being offered as an inheritance to the Firstborn Children of God. At long last, the possibility of obtaining the benefits of Original Holiness, and of acquiring near infinite riches of grace and glory, is within the reach of fallen man. And all it takes is an act of Consecration to Mary. Behold, then, the generosity of the Mother of God, who loves those who love her, and who gives generously of her immense treasury of grace to those who are faithful to her. Let us remember the words of Mary herself, spoken to a saintly nun many years ago: “The soul’s capacity for glory approaches the infinite”. Such is the incomprehensible reward our Heavenly Father wishes us to obtain. Indeed, the unfathomable depths of His love would demand nothing less. And this is what the True Devotion to Mary is all about - the opportunity of acquiring infinitely more grace here on earth, and glory in Heaven, then we ever thought possible.

In closing, may endless gratitude be to God for giving us such a merciful, wise, and loving Mother. May He be blessed forever for His own boundless mercy and generosity; for His never-ending kindness; and for His selfless giving of everything He has. And may the Sovereign Queen of the Heavens, His Most Holy Mother, be blessed for all eternity.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: PG on January 30, 2018, 05:05:28 PM

Well, if I didn't have a catholic brain in my head, this montfortian crap might be effective.  But, that is not the case.  

There are two grave problems with louis de montfort.  One is that he held a false belief that a temporal queen(like the queen of england or any other given queen) not only has a right to slaves in the fullest sense, but a duty befitting of a queens dignity.  And, what does this fullest sense of slavery mean?  This fullest sense of slavery means that a temporal queen has the right to life or death over their slaves as her pleasure sees fit.  And, that is important to know for two reasons.  One, with Christ, the law is written on the hearts of all men.  And, that condemns and ends the need for such full and total slavery.  And, two, it is murder, because only Christ has the right to life and death over any and all human beings.   It is also important because the temporal queen is not our religion.  The temporal queen is not the embodiment of our religion or its visible manifestation here on earth.  The catholic church is our "she".  The queen is not our "she".  The Church decides what is right and wrong.  A temporal queen does not decide what is right and wrong.  And, neither does a temporal queen have the right to execute the churches decision in this matter.  That right belongs to "the prince".  And, the prince is a male.  And, that means that temporally, kings or the state(which will always be male dominated anyway) only have such a right.

And, not only do we know this because he taught it in a short section clearly and in greater length vaguely.  But, he also modeled his entire religious order off of it, desecrating baptism in the process.  That is why his followers are called "slaves".  They are a religious slavery to mirror their temporal false slavery.    

The next grave error sister to his immorality, comes in the field of faith.  And, it consists in his denial of merit.  Merit is a catholic teaching.  If we are in heaven, we have merits with us.  Its reverse is also true.  If we do not have merits with us, we are not in heaven.  So much for giving up all of our merits as de montfort promotes.  Roma locuta est, causa finita est.  I am not going to go through the trouble of posting all of the relevant denzinger numbers regarding merit.  But, rest assured, merit is taught by the catholic church.  And, it is denied by louis de montfort.

In sum, De montfort is simply preaching grimoire shakinah antichrist religion.  It is тαℓмυdism for catholics.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Mega-fin on January 30, 2018, 07:37:51 PM

тαℓмυdic and Antichrist? I’ll take these Popes opinions on the matter, thanks.  

Pope Pius IX (1846–78): Declared that Saint Louis De Montfort’s devotion to Mary was the best and most acceptable form of devotion to Our Lady.
Pope Leo XIII (1878–1903): Granted a Plenary Indulgence to those who make Saint Louis De Montfort’s act of consecration to the Blessed Virgin. On his deathbed he renewed the act himself and invoked the heavenly aid of Saint Louis De Montfort, whom he had beatified in 1888.
Pope Saint Pius X (1903–14): “I heartily recommend True Devotion to The Blessed Virgin, so admirably written by [Saint] De Montfort, and to all who read it grant the Apostolic Benediction.” . . .”There is no surer or easier way than Mary in uniting all men with Christ.”
Pope Benedict XV (1914–22): “A book of high authority and unction.”
Pope Pius XI (1922–39): “I have practiced this devotion ever since my youth.”
Pope Pius XII (1939–58): “God Alone was everything to him. Remain faithful to the precious heritage, which this great saint left you. It is a glorious inheritance, worthy, that you continue to sacrifice your strength and your life, as you have done until today.”

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: hollingsworth on January 30, 2018, 08:30:32 PM

PG:

Quote

Well, if I didn't have a catholic brain in my head, this montfortian crap might be effective.  But, that is not the case. "

Suffice to say, I have not attempted to plumb the depths of PG's "catholic brain" in his lengthy post.  Mega fin shows us that several popes spoke quite highly of de Monfort.  And, I think, it was Pius XII who canonized him in 1947,(unless, of course, I have the wrong Louis de Montfort in mind.  So we have a choice, a very simple one actually.  Either we side with PG's "catholic brain," or with a number of holy popes. Is it really a contest?  Perhaps we could examine under another topic the possiblility that PG's "Catholic brain" is full of тαℓмυdic and anti-Christ "crap."

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: PG on January 30, 2018, 09:21:05 PM

I am well aware of all the papal support.  However, I have read all of de montforts writings.  And, I cannot deny that what I have written is explicitly and clearly in there, along with much more implicit matter that I will not attempt to describe.  This is sufficient.  

And, you don't have to take the Jєωιѕн(aka тαℓмυdic) element from me.  The OP says it right here:

The second reason, I believe, is because it is primarily an inheritance of the descendants of the ancient Israelites – that is, the ones who will convert to Christianity toward the end of the world. In other words, I believe it was never really intended for the “Gentile” Church to begin with – only, perhaps, as something to be roughly developed and then handed on to its rightful heirs. It’s an inheritance meant for the Children of Israel – that is, the actual physical descendants of the Hebrew nation.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: sedevacantist on February 01, 2018, 11:14:11 AM

Quote from: PG on January 30, 2018, 09:21:05 PM

I am well aware of all the papal support.  However, I have read all of de montforts writings.  And, I cannot deny that what I have written is explicitly and clearly in there, along with much more implicit matter that I will not attempt to describe.  This is sufficient.  

And, you don't have to take the Jєωιѕн(aka тαℓмυdic) element from me.  The OP says it right here:

The second reason, I believe, is because it is primarily an inheritance of the descendants of the ancient Israelites – that is, the ones who will convert to Christianity toward the end of the world. In other words, I believe it was never really intended for the “Gentile” Church to begin with – only, perhaps, as something to be roughly developed and then handed on to its rightful heirs. It’s an inheritance meant for the Children of Israel – that is, the actual physical descendants of the Hebrew nation.

First of all, "тαℓмυdism" isn't Jєωιѕн. It was cooked up by the godless Pharisees and Rabbis as a means of justifying their own perverted religion. Christ Himself condemns it several times. It has as much relationship with the ancient religion of Israel as Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ has with Catholicism. And yet, you somehow believe the two are not only related, but are one and the same? 
And when we give the Mother of God our souls, do we not get them back, as with our merits? The trouble here is that you fail to understand the devotion. That's why you rant against it. May the Queen of Heaven open your eyes...

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: PG on February 01, 2018, 11:50:24 AM

sedevacantist - the old covenant is no longer.  There is no modern Jєωιѕнness or hebrewness or israelness or judaism no matter how ancient that is not ultimately at the complete service of тαℓмυdism.  It is called Extra Ecclesiam nulla Salus.  And, I shouldn't have to translate that for you.  But, in this context, what it means is that no matter how "nice" or even "good" a jew or hebrew is, if unconverted, as such, they will always be at the service of the тαℓмυd whether they know it or not.  Because, there is not salvation there.  All your niceness and goodness will come to naught.  

In the catholic church there is no jew or greek.  It is тαℓмυdic jews who infiltrate all religions as the catholic church infiltrates all societies who are trying to infiltrate the church and weaken it with montfortian ideas.  Jesus is God.  Mary is not God.  

Quote from: sedevacantist on February 01, 2018, 11:14:11 AM

And when we give the Mother of God our souls, do we not get them back, as with our merits? 

It is funny you should ask.  Don't you think if you have to ask, a reservation is deserving?  I do.  

Lastly, we cannot without Christ regain "original holiness" or whatever de montfort said that you quoted about by going back to being like adam and even in the garden.  The garden of paradise was closed to man with the fall, and it is only opened through salvation in Christ Jesus.  It was by Eve that man fell.  I am not going to participate in a repeat.  Jesus is God.  And, he is not Alone.  He is with the Father and the Holy Ghost.  

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: sedevacantist on February 01, 2018, 04:18:31 PM

Quote from: PG on February 01, 2018, 11:50:24 AM

sedevacantist - the old covenant is no longer.  There is no modern Jєωιѕнness or hebrewness or israelness or judaism no matter how ancient that is not ultimately at the complete service of тαℓмυdism.  It is called Extra Ecclesiam nulla Salus.  And, I shouldn't have to translate that for you.  But, in this context, what it means is that no matter how "nice" or even "good" a jew or hebrew is, if unconverted, as such, they will always be at the service of the тαℓмυd whether they know it or not.  Because, there is not salvation there.  All your niceness and goodness will come to naught.  

In the catholic church there is no jew or greek.  It is тαℓмυdic jews who infiltrate all religions as the catholic church infiltrates all societies who are trying to infiltrate the church and weaken it with montfortian ideas.  Jesus is God.  Mary is not God.  
It is funny you should ask.  Don't you think if you have to ask, a reservation is deserving?  I do.  

Lastly, we cannot without Christ regain "original holiness" or whatever de montfort said that you quoted about by going back to being like adam and even in the garden.  The garden of paradise was closed to man with the fall, and it is only opened through salvation in Christ Jesus.  It was by Eve that man fell.  I am not going to participate in a repeat.  Jesus is God.  And, he is not Alone.  He is with the Father and the Holy Ghost.  

You seem to have a real penchant for seeing things that aren't actually there. I never said that the Israelites wouldn't need to be converted to Catholicism. One can be a physical descendant of Israel, and still become a Catholic. Should I bring up the 11th chapter of St. Paul's letter to the Romans again? Did you actually read the OP? If so, how is it you don't understand this? 

Nor did I (or Louis De Montfort) ever say that one regains Original Holiness through the practice of this devotion. What I said is that one can regain the BENEFITS of Original Holiness. That is, one's actions can be purified of all stain of imperfection. You don't seem to be able to grasp the simple fundamentals of this devotion. Why is that?

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: sedevacantist on February 03, 2018, 12:08:20 PM

You've had three days now to answer the question, and still, nothing. So let me try and answer it for you:

The reason you can't grasp the simple fundamentals of this devotion is because the Devil won't let you. 
I was very clear in my explanation of what this devotion is all about. Here's the quote again:

"THIS is what Consecration to the Queen of Heaven is all about. It’s about regaining the benefits of original holiness – of turning the clock back, as it were – of repairing the miserable consequences of our fallen nature. But how can this be? How is it possible to reverse the fallen state of man? Well, first of all, we’re not talking about reversing the fallen state of man. No, this unfortunate condition is our curse for the sin of Adam, and the innumerable sins that we commit every day of our lives. Only the Son of God and His Blessed Mother lived and died without sin, free of this curse. Instead, what De Montfort is talking about is regaining the benefits of Original Holiness, and not Original Holiness itself. He is talking about repairing the consequences of our fallen nature – not the fallen nature itself."

As you can see, I made a special effort to explain that we were not regaining "Original Holiness", but the BENEFITS of Original Holiness. I went out of my way to explain it. And yet, for some mysterious reason, you missed it. That isn't normal. Nor are we talking about some side issue in regard to this devotion. Regaining the benefits of Original Holiness IS THE WHOLE POINT of this devotion. That's what it's all about. And you completely missed it. Instead, you saw the exact opposite of what was written. Again, this isn't normal.
 
I must admit, I was a little puzzled at first. Anyone who entertains a devotion to Mary - be it the Rosary, Scapular, or the numerous other practices and prayers she has given us - knows firsthand how holy these devotions are. Devout Catholics, particularly the most well-known Saints, know that Marian devotion is the key to advancement in the spiritual life. And this method of Consecration is no exception. This is why, it has been praised by Popes, Saints, and theologians for a thousand years; and has even been indulgenced by Holy Mother Church. And yet, you refer to it as "crap"? Moreover, you not only fail to grasp the central point of the devotion, but for some strange reason cannot even see what's plainly written. It simply isn't normal. And so again, I was puzzled at first. That is, until I prayed for guidance. 

So now here's what I understand to be going on: As I just mentioned above, anyone who has a true devotion to Mary knows how Godly these practices are - particularly those which have received praise and support from numerous Popes, Saints, and theologians. Ergo, if someone so utterly consumed with hatred toward one of these holy devotions steps up to criticize it, then we know beyond a doubt that that person is under the influence of Satanic forces. In other words, far from convincing us otherwise, you've actually proven the holiness of this devotion - for what better proof than to see the Devil spew such vile hatred toward it? And who better to manifest the Devil's hand than one who babbles, repeatedly trips over his own words, mysteriously fails to see what is plainly written, and is so full of pride as to refer to this indulgenced practice as "crap"? 

And so, in the end, you've inadvertently confirmed the holiness of this devotion - and you've done so in an exemplary fashion. And this is precisely why the Mother of God forced the Devil to send you in particular.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: PG on February 03, 2018, 05:58:55 PM

Sedevacantist - Oh, only the benefits.  Even worse.  The jew infiltrator can look holy, without having to be holy.  The jew can fit right into our religion, in fact ascend to what is considered a height of our religion, without actually having to practice our religion.  That sounds like a jews dream come true.  But, it is actually just their MO, or modus operandi.  In other cultures, like alcohol's, it is called a bloody mary.  And, it matters where.

Just to prove how false a prophet de montfort is.  I will let you in on a little secret.  Teeth were not required.   :applause:

If only the french revolution had done this job, something good might be said.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Neil Obstat on February 03, 2018, 11:22:22 PM

Quote from: hollingsworth on January 30, 2018, 08:30:32 PM

PG:Suffice to say, I have not attempted to plumb the depths of PG's "catholic brain" in his lengthy post.  Mega fin shows us that several popes spoke quite highly of de Monfort.  And, I think, it was Pius XII who canonized him in 1947,(unless, of course, I have the wrong Louis de Montfort in mind.  So we have a choice, a very simple one actually.  Either we side with PG's "catholic brain," or with a number of holy popes. Is it really a contest?  Perhaps we could examine under another topic the possiblility that PG's "Catholic brain" is full of тαℓмυdic and anti-Christ "crap."

.
Saint Louis Marie Grignion de Montfort has a prominent place in St. Peter's Basilica.
.
(https://s15-us2.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.integratedcatholiclife.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fst-louis-marie-grignion-de-montfort.jpg&sp=b1042d0b02cea0d8481eff2c68f4a8f3)  (https://s15-us2.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstpetersbasilica.info%2FStatues%2FFounders%2FLouisdeMontfort%2FSt%2520Louis%2520de%2520Montfort-area.jpg&sp=3db172941dfa7d5cc2171559cb558fe1)

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: PG on February 04, 2018, 12:25:27 AM

Neil - Prominent?  He is right in between two greek godesses parading their sin.  Ones boob is hanging out, and the other is holding forbidden fruit.  It is however very fitting.  De montfort talked about how fitting and right it is to offer a beautiful powerful woman/the queen an apple/fruit to make her even more beautiful and vital.  Do you remember the poison apple for snow white?  It is right there in de montforts book.  I think he even mentioned offering it on a silver platter.  

If de montfort really is the author of true devotion, and I think he is, then he is easily worse than malachy martin.  He is worse than vatican 2.   De montforts book is ambiguious, contradictory, critical, effeminate, gnostic, occult, mythical, psycho babble ridding on the back of marian devotion.  You are welcome to read it yourself, but you are in for a scare.  However, that is better than what was intended.  Shock was intended.  

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Nadir on February 04, 2018, 01:16:03 AM

Quote from: Neil Obstat on February 03, 2018, 11:22:22 PM

.
Saint Louis Marie Grignion de Montfort has a prominent place in St. Peter's Basilica.
.
(https://s15-us2.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.integratedcatholiclife.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fst-louis-marie-grignion-de-montfort.jpg&sp=b1042d0b02cea0d8481eff2c68f4a8f3)  (https://s15-us2.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstpetersbasilica.info%2FStatues%2FFounders%2FLouisdeMontfort%2FSt%2520Louis%2520de%2520Montfort-area.jpg&sp=3db172941dfa7d5cc2171559cb558fe1)

Quote

He is right in between two greek godesses parading their sin.

PG, do you mean the "greek goddess" gazing lovingly on the crucifix?

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: PG on February 04, 2018, 11:21:26 AM

nadir - lovingly?  Evil doesn't exist.  But, pure evil does.  

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: PG on February 04, 2018, 09:51:34 PM

Here are the denzinger numbers related to merit.  This should give one plenty of reason to question the merit-less spirituality of de montfort.  380, 1094, 191, 517, 803, 809, 834, 836, 842, 1008, 1010, 1013-17, 1044, 1261, 1419.  There are a lot more, but I think these are the immediate relevant ones.  

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: PG on February 04, 2018, 10:12:08 PM

Quote from: Nadir on Today at 09:45:20 PM (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/nfp-thought/msg592734/#msg592734)

Quote

Can you give a quote from the book, please, PG?

A sin against the 5th commandment is the foundation of his spirituality.  

71. There is a world of difference between a servant and a slave. 1) A servant does not give his employer all he is, all he has, and all he can acquire by himself or through others. A slave, however, gives himself to his master completely and exclusively with all he has and all he can acquire. 2) A servant demands wages for the services rendered to his employer. A slave, on the other hand, can expect nothing, no matter what skill, attention or energy he may have put into his work. 3) A servant can leave his employer whenever he pleases, or at least when the term of his service expires, whereas the slave has no such right. 4) An employer has no right of life and death over a servant. Were he to kill him as he would a beast of burden, he would commit murder. But the master of a slave has by law the right of life and death over him, so that he can sell him to anyone he chooses or - if you will pardon the comparison - kill him as he would kill his horse. 5) Finally, a servant is in his employer's service only for a time; a slave for always.
  
And, no, I will not "pardon" his comparison.  Christ determines law, not ceasar.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: PG on February 04, 2018, 10:23:03 PM

76. Moreover, if, as I have said, the Blessed Virgin is the Queen and Sovereign of heaven and earth, does she not then have as many subjects and slaves as there are creatures? "All things, including Mary herself, are subject to the power of God. All things, God included, are subject to the Virgin's power", so we are told by St. Anselm, St. Bernard, St. Bernardine and St. Bonaventure. Is it not reasonable to find that among so many slaves there should be some slaves of love, who freely choose Mary as their Queen? Should men and demons have willing slaves, and Mary have none? A king makes it a point of honour that the queen, his consort, should have her own slaves, over whom she has right of life and death, for honour and power given to the queen is honour and power given to the king. Could we possibly believe that Jesus, the best of all sons, who shared his power with his Blessed Mother, would resent her having her own slaves? Has he less esteem and love for his Mother than Ahasuerus had for Esther, or Solomon for Bathsheba? Who could say or even think such a thing?

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: jen51 on February 05, 2018, 03:34:04 AM

I am most proud to be a slave to my Mother. PG, you have taken unnecessary liberties in becoming your own Pope. St. Louie DeMontefort is one of the greatest Marian writers of all time- perhaps the greatest. Popes can attest to it, and you don't care. Your thoughts are dangerous, and I pray that Our Lady gains for you the grace you need in order to turn, and also that she would shield other readers from your dangerous words against her. 

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Cantarella on February 05, 2018, 10:36:52 AM

Quote from: sedevacantist on February 03, 2018, 12:08:20 PM

So now here's what I understand to be going on: As I just mentioned above, anyone who has a true devotion to Mary knows how Godly these practices are - particularly those which have received praise and support from numerous Popes, Saints, and theologians. Ergo, if someone so utterly consumed with hatred toward one of these holy devotions steps up to criticize it, then we know beyond a doubt that that person is under the influence of Satanic forces. In other words, far from convincing us otherwise, you've actually proven the holiness of this devotion - for what better proof than to see the Devil spew such vile hatred toward it? And who better to manifest the Devil's hand than one who babbles, repeatedly trips over his own words, mysteriously fails to see what is plainly written, and is so full of pride as to refer to this indulgenced practice as "crap"?

And so, in the end, you've inadvertently confirmed the holiness of this devotion - and you've done so in an exemplary fashion. And this is precisely why the Mother of God forced the Devil to send you in particular.

This is very interesting. The Devil really does not like Marian devotions at all and he will do anything in his power to prevent souls from practicing them. The hatred towards Our Lady is a sign of demonic activity. St. Louis Marie himself foretold that Satan would cause his treatise to be lost. True Devotion was not discovered until one hundred and twenty-six years after his death.

Good thing I found this thread this morning as it was a timely reminder to renew my own consecration:

In the presence of all the Heavenly Court I choose thee this day for my Mother and Mistress. I deliver and consecrate to thee, as thy slave, my body and soul, my goods, both interior and exterior, and even the value of all my good actions, past, present and future; leaving to thee the entire and full right of disposing of me, and all that belongs to me, without exception, according to thy good pleasure, to the greatest glory of God, in time and in eternity.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Student of Qi on February 05, 2018, 11:42:07 AM

I think we are forgetting something here: Mother Mary can not be competed with in Charity, Faith, Gratitude, Generosity, or any other Grace or virtue. It is said if you give her an egg she will give you an ox/cow. Now, in comparison, and egg can be about 18 cents ($0.18) and cows can have a value of anywhere from $1,200 to $4,000. So if this is how generous and loving She would be with us in return for an egg, how much more would she spoil us with if we give ourselves to her entirely? The exchange is worth it, in my opinion.

Forget your mental gymnastics for a minute, and ask how much do you trust our most beautiful, and loving Mother?

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: PG on February 05, 2018, 11:53:39 AM

Quote from: jen51 on February 05, 2018, 03:34:04 AM

I am most proud to be a slave to my Mother. PG, you have taken unnecessary liberties in becoming your own Pope. St. Louie DeMontefort is one of the greatest Marian writers of all time- perhaps the greatest. Popes can attest to it, and you don't care. Your thoughts are dangerous, and I pray that Our Lady gains for you the grace you need in order to turn, and also that she would shield other readers from your dangerous words against her.

I have held this opinion for many years now.  I posted this many years ago when I first read it, but before I finished his books.  Many brushed off my concern.  Well, I have completed his works, and I am still in one piece.  I suspect few can say that.  I have only scratched the surface for you.  Perhaps I will do more.  But, an instrument may be called for, an instrument that popes do not possess.  

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: PG on February 05, 2018, 12:51:17 PM

Quote from: Cantarella on February 05, 2018, 10:36:52 AM

This is very interesting. The Devil really does not like Marian devotions at all and he will do anything in his power to prevent souls from practicing them. The hatred towards Our Lady is a sign of demonic activity. St. Louis Marie himself foretold that Satan would cause his treatise to be lost. True Devotion was not discovered until one hundred and twenty-six years after his death.

Good thing I found this thread this morning as it was a timely reminder to renew my own consecration:

In the presence of all the Heavenly Court I choose thee this day for my Mother and Mistress. I deliver and consecrate to thee, as thy slave, my body and soul, my goods, both interior and exterior, and even the value of all my good actions, past, present and future; leaving to thee the entire and full right of disposing of me, and all that belongs to me, without exception, according to thy good pleasure, to the greatest glory of God, in time and in eternity.

I am well aware of the intimate yet depraved relationship between feeneyism and montfortianism.  Killer whales hunt in packs.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: jen51 on February 05, 2018, 02:26:11 PM

Quote from: PG on February 05, 2018, 11:53:39 AM

But, an instrument may be called for, an instrument that popes do not possess.  

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Could you please explain?
PG, I am wondering about your opinion a few other things. What do you think of Fatima? Do you believe in the immaculate conception? What about the brown scapular?

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: PG on February 05, 2018, 03:11:59 PM

Quote from: jen51 on February 05, 2018, 02:26:11 PM

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Could you please explain?
PG, I am wondering about your opinion a few other things. What do you think of Fatima? Do you believe in the immaculate conception? What about the brown scapular?

The inquisition of our time is headed by women.  

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: sedevacantist on February 06, 2018, 10:51:16 AM

Quote from: PG on February 04, 2018, 10:12:08 PM

Quote from: Nadir on Today at 09:45:20 PM (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/nfp-thought/msg592734/#msg592734)
A sin against the 5th commandment is the foundation of his spirituality.  

71. There is a world of difference between a servant and a slave. 1) A servant does not give his employer all he is, all he has, and all he can acquire by himself or through others. A slave, however, gives himself to his master completely and exclusively with all he has and all he can acquire. 2) A servant demands wages for the services rendered to his employer. A slave, on the other hand, can expect nothing, no matter what skill, attention or energy he may have put into his work. 3) A servant can leave his employer whenever he pleases, or at least when the term of his service expires, whereas the slave has no such right. 4) An employer has no right of life and death over a servant. Were he to kill him as he would a beast of burden, he would commit murder. But the master of a slave has by law the right of life and death over him, so that he can sell him to anyone he chooses or - if you will pardon the comparison - kill him as he would kill his horse. 5) Finally, a servant is in his employer's service only for a time; a slave for always.
  
And, no, I will not "pardon" his comparison.  Christ determines law, not ceasar.

Here we go again with more evidence of the demonic influence behind PG's ramblings. His gross misinterpretation of the above quote (which seems to be one of the foundations of his remarkable hatred for this holy devotion), just proves, as I've said already, that the Devil will not allow him to comprehend the truth. What Louis De Montfort is doing here is merely explaining the "Law of the Land" - a law which allows for the killing of a slave by his master. He expressly says as much in verse 4 - in the very section PG highlighted: "But the master of a slave has by law the right of life and death over him." 

In no way does Louis De Montfort ever state, or even imply, that he agrees with this law. Nor does he say, or even imply, that he believes it's a moral one. Much less does he praise it, as PG would have us believe. In fact, he seems to be so appalled at this law that toward the end of the quote he asks everyone to "pardon the comparison" of the killing of a slave with the killing of a horse. In other words, he's quite evidently ashamed to make the comparison - and therefore asks pardon for making it. PG, on the other hand, would have us believe that Louis De Montfort supports the killing of a slave as if it were just a horse. In reality, nothing could be further from the truth, as the above quote proves. 

I've said it once, and I'll say it again... PG is under the influence of the Devil. That's why he harbors such a vile hatred for Marian Consecration - as well as its champion, the holy man, Louis De Montfort.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: PG on February 06, 2018, 11:23:20 AM

Quote from: sedevacantist on February 06, 2018, 10:51:16 AM

I've said it once, and I'll say it again... PG is under the influence of the Devil. That's why he harbors such a vile hatred for Marian Consecration - as well as its champion, the holy man, Louis De Montfort.

"I have nothing against the Jews at all. In fact, I'm physically descended from them"

Fortunately for me, few on CI here side with israelis.    

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: sedevacantist on February 06, 2018, 11:58:45 AM

PG,
As for your accusing me of "Feeneyism", this is not true at all. Fr. Feeney believed in "Baptism of Desire" - only he believed in the ancient version, as opposed to the modern one. I have never once believed in either. But that's another subject for another thread.

One more time, you are under the influence of the Devil. He's the one whispering things in your ear...

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: PG on February 06, 2018, 12:00:15 PM

It looks like many a one's blood here is boiling.  Only one with an intense hatred of Jesus, or an intense love of ones self, which is in the end the same, embraces montfortianism.
"But those who accept this little-known secret of grace which I offer them can rightly be compared to smelters and moulders who have discovered the beautiful mould of Mary where Jesus was so divinely and so naturally formed. They do not rely on their own skill but on the perfection of the mould. They cast and lose themselves in Mary where they become true models of her Son. 

221. You may think this a beautiful and convincing comparison. But how many understand it? I would like you, my dear friend, to understand it. But remember that only molten and liquefied substances may be poured into a mould. That means that you must crush and melt down the old Adam in you if you wish to acquire the likeness of the new Adam in Mary." 

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: PG on February 06, 2018, 12:30:45 PM

Sedevacantist - you are not having much success here on the farm.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHzhnvxyAow

I like to keep things PG.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: sedevacantist on February 06, 2018, 12:46:15 PM

Quote from: PG on February 06, 2018, 12:00:15 PM

It looks like many a one's blood here is boiling.  Only one with an intense hatred of Jesus, or an intense love of ones self, which is in the end the same, embraces montfortianism.
"But those who accept this little-known secret of grace which I offer them can rightly be compared to smelters and moulders who have discovered the beautiful mould of Mary where Jesus was so divinely and so naturally formed. They do not rely on their own skill but on the perfection of the mould. They cast and lose themselves in Mary where they become true models of her Son.

221. You may think this a beautiful and convincing comparison. But how many understand it? I would like you, my dear friend, to understand it. But remember that only molten and liquefied substances may be poured into a mould. That means that you must crush and melt down the old Adam in you if you wish to acquire the likeness of the new Adam in Mary."

Unbelievable. 
Let's all hear the Devil speak to us again through PG...
"Only one with an intense hatred of Jesus, or an intense love of ones self, which is in the end the same, embraces montfortianism."
Only one with an intense hatred for Jesus... such as the Holy Roman Catholic Church, which indulgenced this devotion? Or the numerous Saints canonized by Her who practiced Marian consecration? Honestly, do we really need to hear anymore to be convinced?

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: sedevacantist on February 06, 2018, 01:45:26 PM

Quote from: Cantarella on February 05, 2018, 10:36:52 AM

This is very interesting. The Devil really does not like Marian devotions at all and he will do anything in his power to prevent souls from practicing them. The hatred towards Our Lady is a sign of demonic activity. St. Louis Marie himself foretold that Satan would cause his treatise to be lost. True Devotion was not discovered until one hundred and twenty-six years after his death.

Good thing I found this thread this morning as it was a timely reminder to renew my own consecration:

In the presence of all the Heavenly Court I choose thee this day for my Mother and Mistress. I deliver and consecrate to thee, as thy slave, my body and soul, my goods, both interior and exterior, and even the value of all my good actions, past, present and future; leaving to thee the entire and full right of disposing of me, and all that belongs to me, without exception, according to thy good pleasure, to the greatest glory of God, in time and in eternity.

Cantarella,

If you haven't already, I would interest you in reading the opening post. It's not so much about the De Montfort Consecration, as it is about a secret hidden within it - something that, to my knowledge, has never been explained. One might think of it as a deeper understanding of the whole essence of the devotion. 

I would liken it to a deeper understanding of the Church itself. One could, for example, explain the Church in terms of it's laws, its doctrines, its practices, rituals, and structure. And this is fine. But the explanation only covers one dimension - the earthly, human one. There's a deeper dimension to the concept of the Church. More than just a group of individuals, it's an actual living, breathing, walking, talking entity created by God to continue on earth in Christ's absence. It's a creature, if you will - half human and half Divine. Sure, it just looks like a bunch of people to us, but that's because we're living in the midst of it. On the same note, if seen under an electron microscope, the human body would appear to be nothing but a bunch of atoms floating around. But were we to zoom out far enough, we would see that it is an actual living body. The same is true of the Church. There is a deeper dimension to it, and one that helps us to understand and appreciate it in a new light.

This is what I've attempted to do in regard to the Marian Consecration - that is, to reveal a deeper dimension; one that, hopefully, will help you to appreciate it in a new light. And so I would trouble you (and anyone else who hasn't already) to read through the OP. I know it's somewhat lengthy, and I apologize. But frankly, this is an important topic and needs to be explained as thoroughly as possible. 

At any rate, I'm glad to hear that you practice the De Montfort Consecration. Know that you are among the Catholic elite...

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: PG on February 06, 2018, 01:54:12 PM

Quote from: sedevacantist on February 06, 2018, 11:58:45 AM

PG,
Fr. Feeney believed in "Baptism of Desire" - only he believed in the ancient version, as opposed to the modern one. I have never once believed in either.

You are a liar.  Fr. feeney did not believe in baptism of desire.  And, I am not surprised that you do not believe in any (merely tolerated) manifestation of the catholic churches teaching about baptism.  Louis de montfort desecrated catholic baptism when he created a replacement baptism in the waters of the "blessed mother".  You are however passing over an important truth that all antichristian heretics deny, and that is, that mary is "ever virgin".  

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: sedevacantist on February 06, 2018, 02:06:16 PM

Quote from: PG on February 06, 2018, 01:54:12 PM

You are a liar.  Fr. feeney did not believe in baptism of desire.  And, I am not surprised that you do not believe in any (merely tolerated) manifestation of the catholic churches teaching about baptism.  Louis de montfort desecrated catholic baptism when he created a replacement baptism in the waters of the "blessed mother".  You are however passing over an important truth that all antichristian heretics deny, and that is, that mary is "ever virgin".  

Perhaps you should do some homework.

The reason why Fr. Feeney came under fire was because he upheld the ancient doctrine of BOD, as opposed to the modern one. The modern doctrine maintains that one may be saved in any religion whatsoever through "implicit desire"; whereas the ancient doctrine (which the saints believed in) made no such allowance; but instead maintained that the desire for the actual sacrament of Baptism somehow incorporated a man into the Church before his death. Ergo, they always maintained to their dying breath, that one must be a Catholic to be saved. Hence the immemorial use of the phrase: "Extra Ecclesium, Nulla Salus". This is the original doctrine of "Baptism of Desire". 

The modern version, on the other hand, is not "Baptism of Desire" at all, but the doctrine of "Religious Indifferentism", which began to spread through the Church in the first quarter of the 19th century. This is the belief that one's religion is an indifferent matter (that is, one can be theoretically saved in any religion). Despite repeated condemnations from Rome, by the late 18oo's, this doctrine was so universally held by Catholics that Pope Leo XIII referred to it as "The Great Error of the Age" (Humanum Genus, 1884). 

At some point, the Devil pulled off a very clever "Bait and Switch" tactic - convincing everyone that this new doctrine of "implicit desire"/Religious Indifferentism was actually the same belief as the "Baptism of Desire" held by the saints of old. And presto, the modern version of BOD was born. Today, everyone mistakenly thinks that the modern version is the same as the old - which is a bold-faced lie. Nevertheless, the modern version is defended so vigorously by all Traditionalists, and the Novus Ordo in general, that anyone (such as Fr. Feeney) who upholds the ancient version is condemned with anathema. 

And now you understand what "Feeneyism" is.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: PG on February 06, 2018, 02:13:45 PM

Quote from: sedevacantist on February 06, 2018, 01:45:26 PM

I would liken it to a deeper understanding of the Church itself. One could, for example, explain the Church in terms of it's laws, its doctrines, its practices, rituals, and structure. And this is fine. But the explanation only covers one dimension - the earthly, human one.There's a deeper dimension to the concept of the Church. More than just a group of individuals, it's an actual living, breathing, walking, talking entity created by God to continue on earth in Christ's absence. It's a creature, if you will - half human and half Divine.

At any rate, I'm glad to hear that you practice the De Montfort Consecration. Know that you are among the Catholic elite...

Three words: antichrist shehkinah irreligion.  Judging from what you have said here, you believe the church is collegial/not hierarchical.  And, that there is a separate God-Creature along side it that the church also "subsists in".  CONDEMNED

That catholic church neither subsists in a non-hierarchical group of so called believers, and nor does it subsists in a single elite person who is "half human half divine".  

You are a sick person.  Your theories and the theories of louis de montfort are directly opposed to catholic teaching.  I hope Matthew bans you for your heresy and ѕєdιтισn!

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: PG on February 06, 2018, 03:38:31 PM

The catholic church has four marks.  It is one, holy, catholic, and apostolic.  The catholic church is not legion, immoral, national, and queen regnant.  

The holy ghost subsists in the catholic church, where Christ calls us "servants and friends".  He does not call us "slaves and gods".  

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: sedevacantist on February 24, 2018, 02:48:22 PM

Quote from: PG on February 06, 2018, 02:13:45 PM

Three words: antichrist shehkinah irreligion.  Judging from what you have said here, you believe the church is collegial/not hierarchical.  And, that there is a separate God-Creature along side it that the church also "subsists in".  CONDEMNED

That catholic church neither subsists in a non-hierarchical group of so called believers, and nor does it subsists in a single elite person who is "half human half divine".  

You are a sick person.  Your theories and the theories of louis de montfort are directly opposed to catholic teaching.  I hope Matthew bans you for your heresy and ѕєdιтισn!

Members of the Catholic Church are the actual Body of Christ - flesh and bone. And yet, we are individual souls. How would you term it? Actually, I'd rather not hear your take on this mystery. You've spewed enough verbal sewage on this thread already. 

To everyone reading this post, I would remind you that "PG" has a venomous hatred for Marian Consecration - and declares that anyone who practices it is under the influence of the devil. Just so you realize where he's coming from.

As for the Consecration itself, I just wanted to mention that one doesn't necessarily have to follow the "De Montfort formula" in order to be consecrated to Mary. That is to say, it isn't necessary to follow the month-long ritual in his book. What I would say, however, is that words only go so far...

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: PG on February 24, 2018, 05:35:22 PM

Quote from: sedevacantist on February 24, 2018, 02:48:22 PM

To everyone reading this post, I would remind you that "PG" has a venomous hatred for Marian Consecration - and declares that anyone who practices it is under the influence of the devil. Just so you realize where he's coming from.

I have no hatred of marian consecration.  What I have hatred of is abuse of the Mother of God.  What I have hatred of are the teachings of the book true(false) devotion the blessed virgin mary by louis de montfort.  What I have hatred of is total consecration to a white witch.
And, contrary to louis do montfort, what I have love for is the 1st and the 5th commandments.  

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Neil Obstat on February 24, 2018, 10:37:37 PM

Quote from: PG on February 05, 2018, 03:11:59 PM

The inquisition of our time is headed by women.  

.
Answer this, do you, PG, think that Our Lady should check with you first, before she gives any messages to Catholics in apparitions?

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: hollingsworth on February 25, 2018, 11:44:01 AM

sedevacantist:

Quote

As one can see then, this Consecration is quite ancient, and certainly well founded. Nonetheless, it is peculiar to note that despite its antiquity, and the fact that numerous attempts have been made to spread knowledge of its existence throughout the world, it still remains scarcely known among the general populace today; and, although many so-called Catholics are aware of its existence, it is scarcely practiced. Moreover, it would seem that even among those who do practice it, it is hardly understood. It is truly a wonder that this devotion of Consecration continues in relative obscurity to this day – yes, even among the Saints. Stranger still, is the fact that notwithstanding this obscurity, it is one of the greatest devotions in the history of Christianity.  

Sede, I think you make a remarkable contribution on this topic.  We have consecrated ourselves to the Immaculate and Sorrowful Heart of Mary to the best of our ability.  We try to say three Rosaries a day, as well.  But you're right.  Consecration to Mary, though ancient, is not practiced very widely today.  One has to wonder why.
Surely, you are acquainted with the interview granted by Sr. Lucy to Fr. Augustin Fuentes in 1957. Fr. Fuentes was postulator for the beatification and canonization of Francisco and Jacinta Marto.  When this priest reported to his superiors what Sr. Lucy had told him, he was dismissed from his post and accused of prevarication.  Later, thanks in part to the good offices of Fr. Alonso, chief expert on the Fatima apparitions, Fuentes' reputation was at least partially reinstated, and he was judged to have told the truth about his interview with Sr. Lucy, and not to have embellished it at all.
Having said that, I leave with you and other CI members, a few words from Fr. Fuentes taken directly from this 1957 interview:

"The Most Holy Virgin in these last times in which we live has given new

efficacy to the recitation of the Rosary... There is no problem I tell you,

no matter how difficult it is, that we cannot resolve by the prayer of the

Holy Rosary...we will save ourselves... console Our Lord and obtain

the salvation of many souls...

"Finally, devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, Our Most Holy

Mother, consists in considering Her as the seat of mercy, of

goodness, and of pardon and the certain door by which we are to enter

Heaven."

Take it or leave it.  Those are words passed on to Fr. Fuentes by Sr. Lucy dos Santos, surely at the behest of Our Holy Mother and with Her full approval. 

Quote

Surely, I must be exaggerating, you say? If it’s such a great devotion, then why is it so scarcely practiced, and so little understood after so many centuries of existence? Well, I believe there are two reasons for this: First of all, because of its great importance, the devil has been trying very hard to frustrate any knowledge of this devotion. We find a classic example of this fact in the life of Blessed Louis De Montfort himself. This holy man knew better than anyone the hardships encountered by those attempting to spread this devotion. He was kicked out of every single diocese in France—with the exception of two—because he championed Consecration to the Blessed Virgin Mary.

No, you are not exaggerating at all. This devotion needs to be spread among Catholics.  I would almost say that we need to spend more time heralding this devotion, and perhaps less time, relatively, trumpeting the obvious superiority of the Tridentine Mass

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: St Ignatius on February 25, 2018, 12:22:27 PM

Quote from: hollingsworth on February 25, 2018, 11:44:01 AM

No, you are not exaggerating at all. This devotion needs to be spread among Catholics.  I would almost say that we need to spend more time heralding this devotion, and perhaps less time, relatively, trumpeting the obvious superiority of the Tridentine Mass

I believe wholeheartedly that these Marian devotions are of absolute importance, or should I say absolutely necessary, to us today.

As our Lord was dying on the Cross, he gave us that which was dearest to Him, his Mother.  Likewise, as it appears the Church is now being crucified, possibly dead and buried, we resort again to our Lady's intervention. It only makes sense...

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: songbird on February 25, 2018, 02:13:02 PM

In the City of God, 1st volume, Our Lady states she is to establish Her Immaculate Heart in the World. So, it is biblical.  It is prophecy!  Louis De Montfort was given mysteries-opened.  In the City of God Our Lady says there are mysteries yet to come!  Hmm!

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: roscoe on February 25, 2018, 02:58:20 PM

I will stand corrected but my understanding of Fr Feeney is that he believed in BoD only for someone who lived before Jesus' arrival on planet E. 8) Hence the term 'Ancient' BoD

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: PG on February 25, 2018, 06:10:35 PM

Quote from: roscoe on February 25, 2018, 02:58:20 PM

I will stand corrected but my understanding of Fr Feeney is that he believed in BoD only for someone who lived before Jesus' arrival on planet E. 8) Hence the term 'Ancient' BoD

Very interesting.  I had briefly heard about this BoD "before Jesus" theory mentioned by the dimonds.  So, maybe this is what the member sedevacantist means by "ancient Bod", when he says he does not believe in it along with current BoD(taught by every sspx, ecclesia dei, and sspv cleric).  I don't think the church has used ancient BoD to describe this situation, but the end would be the same.  And, the end is that there were israelites of the old testament saved through their faith, HOPE, and charity in a messiah/Jesus.  What is interesting here, is that the church does teach that("ancient BoD" but not under that title).  So, for the member sedevacantist to deny that, then he would doubtfully be a catholic.  It is in the creed that christ decended into hell.  And, that descent into hell was to save/release those who obviously were not baptized yet, but hoped/desired in a messiah and heaven.  
In sum, this would make the member sedevacantist just another false convert israeli trolling CI for a rich harvest of its fully ripened variety of moon-blinked owls.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgpQWPclSIg&t=69s

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: hollingsworth on February 26, 2018, 01:09:27 PM

sede:

Quote

To everyone reading this post, I would remind you that "PG" has a venomous hatred for Marian Consecration - and declares that anyone who practices it is under the influence of the devil. Just so you realize where he's coming from.

Well, I don't know if he has a "venomous hatred" or not.  He obviously has no use for de Montfort. But wasn't L. de M.beatified by Leo XIII?  I think it was in 1888.  Then there's St.Bernard of Clairvaux, among many other saints devoted to Mary, who came on the scene about 850 years earlier.  He too displayed a singular to Mary, which, alas, PG might describe as an affliction. I'm a bit puzzled by PG's bitterness in this regard

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: PG on February 26, 2018, 01:39:04 PM

Hollingsworth - No, louis de montfort was canonized by pius xii in 1947.  

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Ladislaus on February 26, 2018, 03:01:24 PM

So please articulate rationally ... without the inflammatory language ... what, theologically, do you object to in the St. Louis de Montfort mariology?

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Ladislaus on February 26, 2018, 03:05:47 PM

Quote from: PG on January 30, 2018, 05:05:28 PM

 
it is murder, because only Christ has the right to life and death over any and all human beings

Ultimately, yes, only God has this right, properly speaking, but it can be delegated.  So, do you consider the death penalty to be immoral?

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Ladislaus on February 26, 2018, 03:07:47 PM

Quote from: PG on January 30, 2018, 05:05:28 PM

And, neither does a temporal queen have the right to execute the churches decision in this matter.  That right belongs to "the prince".

... who can delegate it to whom He chooses.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Ladislaus on February 26, 2018, 03:11:45 PM

Quote from: PG on January 30, 2018, 05:05:28 PM

And, it consists in his denial of merit.  Merit is a catholic teaching.  If we are in heaven, we have merits with us.  Its reverse is also true.  If we do not have merits with us, we are not in heaven.  So much for giving up all of our merits as de montfort promotes

pffft.  There's a difference between general supernatural merit and actual merit.

Take the soul of an infant who dies immediately after Baptism.  While this child ends up in heaven, he has no actual merits from supernaturally-meritorious deeds.

Sloppy theology on your part.

And the Church would not have canonized this man had he taught the grave errors you accuse him of.  You cause grave scandal to the faith in denouncing this canonized saint and his teaching in such strong terms.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: PG on February 26, 2018, 03:54:18 PM

Quote from: Ladislaus on February 26, 2018, 03:11:45 PM

Take the soul of an infant who dies immediately after Baptism.  While this child ends up in heaven, he has no actual merits from supernaturally-meritorious deeds.

And the Church would not have canonized this man had he taught the grave errors you accuse him of.  You cause grave scandal to the faith in denouncing this canonized saint and his teaching in such strong terms.

"And Jesus said to them: Yea, have you never read: Out of the mouth of infants and of sucklings thou hast perfected praise?"

You are not so critical of Pius XII now.  He "opened the floodgates" as you say, he elevated all the clerics who were responsible for vatican 2, he forwarded evolution, and he promoted NFP.  But, he like or unlike all the rest of the novus ordo popes could never have been fallible in respect to canonizing someone who is not a saint?   At least trust me here, his canonization and its details is not in the slightest the hallmark of my argument against him.  I simply was providing hollingsworth with correct facts.  

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Neil Obstat on February 26, 2018, 06:18:43 PM

.
Do you, PG, think that Our Lady should check with you first, before she gives any messages in apparitions to Catholics?
.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Ladislaus on February 26, 2018, 06:20:28 PM

Quote from: PG on February 26, 2018, 03:54:18 PM

You are not so critical of Pius XII now.  He "opened the floodgates" as you say, he elevated all the clerics who were responsible for vatican 2, he forwarded evolution, and he promoted NFP.  But, he like or unlike all the rest of the novus ordo popes could never have been fallible in respect to canonizing someone who is not a saint?

Uhm, no, because canonizations are protected by papal infallibility.  Nor am I critical of Pius XII having defined the dogma of the Assumption.  So, because I'm critical of Pius XII on some things, I'm supposed to denounce everything he did?

So, where's your rebuttal to my point regarding merit?  Just this ad hominem?

What "merits" do unbaptized infants who die before having reached the age of reason have in heaven?

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: PG on February 26, 2018, 07:47:47 PM

Ladislaus - you do not have a point regarding merit.  You are a bum theologian.  You have contributed nothing legitimate to the conversation.  

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Cantarella on February 27, 2018, 12:00:19 AM

Quote

The mass conversion of Israel toward the end of the world is a well-known prophecy among the Saints. In fact, St. Paul spends the entire 11th chapter of his letter to the Romans on this very point, warning the Gentiles not to become too proud on account of their own conversion, because it will come to an end: “For I will not have you ignorant, brethren, of this mystery (that you be not wise in yourselves) that blindness in part hath chanced in Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles might enter: and so all Israel might be saved…” (Romans 11:25) The conversion of the descendants of Israel, then, is a well known prophecy. Moreover, as everyone knows, the Israelites are the “Firstborn” of God. This being the case, they are entitled to a greater share of the Inheritance – a double share, if I understand the law properly. In the case of this particular Consecration, that Inheritance means a greater amount of grace on earth, and of glory in the Kingdom of Heaven.

This is very interesting. I re-read Romans 11 and studied the biblical annotations and they definitely support a certain predilection for the Israelites. It seems that Heaven is open to the Gentiles, for a limited time (until God recruits as many souls he wants). As St. Paul says, until the fullness of the Gentiles might enter; so we know that the rejection of the Jews is not meant to be for ever; but for a finite time only. God did turn the Jews fall from Grace temporarily into the good of the Gentiles; but much more He will work good for the Jews' general conversion before the End of Times; and the Church accomplishment will consist of both Nations.

Quote

In respect, or as concerning belief in Christ and receiving the Gospel, they (Jews) are God's enemies: by occasion of which their incredulity, the Gentiles found mercy: otherwise in respect of his special election of that nation, and the promises made to the Patriarcs, the Jews are dear to him still. For God never promiseth but he performeth, nor repented himself of the privileges given to that nation.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Cantarella on February 27, 2018, 12:41:36 AM

Quote from: PG on February 01, 2018, 11:50:24 AM

Lastly, we cannot without Christ regain "original holiness" or whatever de montfort said that you quoted about by going back to being like adam and even in the garden.  The garden of paradise was closed to man with the fall, and it is only opened through salvation in Christ Jesus.  It was by Eve that man fell.  I am not going to participate in a repeat.  Jesus is God.  And, he is not Alone.  He is with the Father and the Holy Ghost.  

It is not an either / or proposition; but the perfect cooperation between the New Adam (Christ) and the New Eve (Mary). It is not as if Our Blessed Mother wants the glory all for herself, in a spirit of competition with Christ. As any mother worth the title would perfectly understand, Our Lady does not wish us to go to Herself as the center; but wishes us to go to Her Son instead, our true and only Savior. She does not compete with Her Son in the process of human regeneration; but literally takes our hands to HIM. Holy Mary is not like a mother who refuses to let her children be the center of attention. Her great desire is to decrease that Her Divine Son may increase.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Croix de Fer on February 27, 2018, 02:03:57 AM

Quote from: sedevacantist on January 30, 2018, 12:19:46 PM

The mass conversion of Israel toward the end of the world is a well-known prophecy among the Saints.

Firstly, the true Israel is the Catholic Church. It's not a geographical land mapped out by the United Nations in 1948. The Catholic Church is, essentially, the Bosom of Abraham. Just as before the Son became flesh and dwelt among us, only the righteous in the Bosom of Abraham were to be saved when Christ opened the gates of Heaven for them by His Divine Sacrifice, it is only baptized Catholics, who die in the state of grace, who enter Heaven.

Secondly, what mass conversion? "Mass" is a relative word. Only a minority of the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan will convert to the Catholic Church before Jesus returns. Two-thirds of the Jews will be exterminated as punishment for their rejection of God. This is the prophesy. It's in Zacharias 13:8-9

Quote

sedevacantist says:
The conversion of the descendants of Israel, then, is a well known prophecy.

What descendants? After the Diaspora, the ѕуηαgσgυє lost their biological lineage to David when they mixed with, and converted, Khazars and, subsequently, mixing with some locals of European host nations. They're not biologically descended from David, nor are they spiritually descended from Abraham, for if they were the latter, they would have accepted Jesus Christ as the only true God and Messiah.

Quote

sedevacantist says:
Moreover, as everyone knows, the Israelites are the “Firstborn” of God.

Your fallacy is conflating the true Israelites who lived before, and at the time of, Jesus Christ, with the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan, who are those who say they are Jews, but lie (Revelation 2:9 & 3:9).

Try learning the Catholic Faith before you espouse your subtle Jew apologetics and Zionism.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Cantarella on February 27, 2018, 09:58:47 AM

Quote from: Croix de Fer on February 27, 2018, 02:03:57 AM

What descendants? After the Diaspora, the ѕуηαgσgυє lost their biological lineage to David when they mixed with, and converted, Khazars and, subsequently, mixing with some locals of European host nations. They're not biologically descended from David, nor are they spiritually descended from Abraham, for if they were the latter, they would have accepted Jesus Christ as the only true God and Messiah.

Your fallacy is conflating the true Israelites who lived before, and at the time of, Jesus Christ, with the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan, who are those who say they are Jews, but lie (Revelation 2:9 & 3:9).

Are you saying that there are not true Israelites left in the world (in the physical sense the OP is referring to - of course not present day "Israel")? And if so, which specifically are the Jews that the "predilection" and future conversion are referred to in Romans 11?.  

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Ladislaus on February 27, 2018, 10:03:36 AM

Quote from: PG on February 26, 2018, 07:47:47 PM

Ladislaus - you do not have a point regarding merit.  You are a bum theologian.  You have contributed nothing legitimate to the conversation.  

Then it should be easy for you to answer my question.

You claim that no one can be in heaven without merits?

In the case of an infant who dies shortly after Baptism, the infant would be in heaven.  What merits does said infant have?

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Pax Vobis on February 27, 2018, 10:37:13 AM

Quote

In the case of an infant who dies shortly after Baptism, the infant would be in heaven.  What merits does said infant have?

The act of baptism is an act of Faith, therefore that is a meritorious act, is it not?  The infant does not request baptism of his own will, but the Church allows its Godparents to request this sacrament and to request the Faith, therefore that act, of being admitted to the Church is enough to merit heaven, right?

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Pax Vobis on February 27, 2018, 10:46:24 AM

Quote

If we do not have merits with us, we are not in heaven.

PG, this is not true.  Any catholic has earned supernatural merit at some point in their life.  Doesn't mean they will gain heaven.  Ergo, those who go to hell still have merit, and still may have done good works, but they did not have a 'wedding garment' therefore they were cast outside of the wedding feast.

Merits and sanctifying grace are 2 different things.  As Christ paid the workers in the field the same denarius, regardless of how long each had actually worked, so Christ offers all of us heaven, regardless of the amount of our merit.  Certainly those with more merit will have a higher place and glory in heaven, but one can still get to heaven 'in the last hour'.

As for the rest of your comments, I don't agree with 99% of them and I don't have time to debate.  You are all over the place...

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Ladislaus on February 27, 2018, 11:03:26 AM

Quote from: Pax Vobis on February 27, 2018, 10:37:13 AM

The act of baptism is an act of Faith, therefore that is a meritorious act, is it not?  The infant does not request baptism of his own will, but the Church allows its Godparents to request this sacrament and to request the Faith, therefore that act, of being admitted to the Church is enough to merit heaven, right?

No, there's no actual merit there.  There have to be supernatural good works from acts of the will.

It's the same difference as between the infused supernatural virtues (which put the souls into a state of grace) .. and actual good works which bring increases in sanctifying grace.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Ladislaus on February 27, 2018, 11:06:51 AM

In any case, I've given all my merits, such as they are, to Our Lady.  And if she wanted to withhold the minimum amount of merit required to heaven, then I willingly give that to her as well ... to please her.  If she loves someone more than she loves me, and wishes to take from me to give to that other person, then I am happy to please her that way by giving it up.  What matters to me is to make Our Lady happy ... even if it's at the expense of my own happiness.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: MyrnaM on February 27, 2018, 11:11:14 AM

I admit I quickly scanned this thread and my conclusion is this:  It seems that Pax feels devotion to Mary takes away devotion to God.  Is that it Pax?


I might be wrong on my private interpretation of the meaning of the word in the Magnificat (Biblical) when Our Lady said with her own words, "My soul does magnify the Lord."  I think of this as her saying her soul increases the Lord.  Just as her soul magnifies the Lord it is the gift of grace from Mary especially when we ask for graces, that will magnify or increase my love for her Son, Jesus Christ.  Meaning you can't love Mary too much because the more you love Mary the more you will love her Son.  

I confess the only point I have trouble with myself with True Devotion to Mary with one rule of not being able to mention our own personal intentions.  I am weak to just trust that we just pray and give any merits we earn to her to distribute as she chooses. I can't just stop praying for my loved one, I want so much to ask myself through Mary with words that my loved ones, all of them will die in Gods favor. 

Every morning I ask God for the conversion of the Jews that are promised us at the end times.  Who are we to say who are these True Jews?  Don't you believe that God knows who they are, why even concern yourselves with that point?     

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Pax Vobis on February 27, 2018, 11:13:24 AM

Quote

No, there's no actual merit there.  There have to be supernatural good works from acts of the will.

I disagree - reception of a sacrament is a supernaturally good work, therefore it is a meritorious act.  How can it not be?

You can argue that an infant did not WILL this good work, but if the Church allows them to be baptized into the Faith, then by extension, She allows them to benefit from the meritorious act of baptism.  It's part of the salvific mystery.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Pax Vobis on February 27, 2018, 11:14:43 AM

Quote

It seems that Pax feels devotion to Mary takes away devotion to God.  Is that it Pax?

No, PG is the one who has a problem with St Louie, not I.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Croix de Fer on February 27, 2018, 11:15:59 AM

Quote from: Cantarella on February 27, 2018, 09:58:47 AM

Are you saying that there are not true Israelites left in the world (in the physical sense the OP is referring to - of course not present day "Israel")? And if so, which specifically are the Jews that the "predilection" and future conversion are referred to in Romans 11?.  

To my knowledge, only Roman Jews, today, are descended from early Hebrews who predate Jesus Christ. These same early Hebrews migrated to Rome before Jesus Christ was born. They, supposedly, never engaged in miscegenation with Romans/Italians up to this very day. They were always protected by Roman rule, even through Mussolini's reign. For some reason, even Mussolini made an effort to protect them. If it's true that they are racially unmixed and undiluted, they are the only Jews who have Davidian blood. They're still the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan because they reject Jesus Christ, therefore they are not real Jews in the spiritual sense, but to answer your question, they could be the only blood descendants whom are possibly referenced by Romans 11.

How do we know Romans 11 is not referring to post-Vatican II counterfeit "Catholics" / Newchurch?

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: MyrnaM on February 27, 2018, 11:16:32 AM

Quote from: Pax Vobis on February 27, 2018, 11:14:43 AM

No, PG is the one who has a problem with St Louie, not I.

You are correct I meant to say PG, not Pax Vobis.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Ladislaus on February 27, 2018, 11:19:59 AM

Quote from: Ladislaus on February 27, 2018, 11:03:26 AM

No, there's no actual merit there.  There have to be supernatural good works from acts of the will.

It's the same difference as between the infused supernatural virtues (which put the souls into a state of grace) .. and actual good works which bring increases in sanctifying grace.

And the other thing I've learned (elsewhere) is that, when people commit mortal sin, they lose all their merits.  And they do not get these back by going to Confession.  They start fresh.  St. Louis de Montfort believed that, in giving these to Our Lady, they're actually preserved as hers, and she can even give them back after the soul is restored to a state of grace.  If she wants to, that is.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Ladislaus on February 27, 2018, 11:20:26 AM

Quote from: MyrnaM on February 27, 2018, 11:16:32 AM

You are correct I meant to say PG, not Pax Vobis.

Yeah, the Ps get confusing.  PG, PV, etc.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Ladislaus on February 27, 2018, 11:24:54 AM

Quote from: Pax Vobis on February 27, 2018, 11:13:24 AM

I disagree - reception of a sacrament is a supernaturally good work, therefore it is a meritorious act.  How can it not be?

But the infant did not actually WILL to be baptized.  Again, there's a difference between the STATE of merit that any soul in a state of grace has and the ACTUAL merits acquired by the soul.  It's the same difference as being in a baseline STATE of grace and then receiving additional ACTUAL grace.  So the difference here is between being in a STATE of merit (sanctifying grace) and of being CAPABLE of acquiring more supernatural merit ... and ACTUAL merit.

If I recall, and I haven't read St. Louis de Montfort in quite some time, he actually distinguished clearly between this STATE of merit or grace that is incommunicable vs. the ACTUAL merits that CAN be transferred to Our Lady.  That sticks in my mind.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Pax Vobis on February 27, 2018, 11:29:46 AM

Quote

And the other thing I've learned (elsewhere) is that, when people commit mortal sin, they lose all their merits.  And they do not get these back by going to Confession.

No they don't lose merits from the past, they just don't gain any when in mortal sin.  Let's say a person had a great lent up until the Sunday of Holy week and commits a mortal sin on that sunday.  Then they don't go to confession until 6 days later, on Holy Saturday.  They wouldn't lose their merit for the 90% of lent, they would just lose merit for the week of Holy week when they were in mortal sin.  And after confession, they do not get back this merit from Holy Week.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Pax Vobis on February 27, 2018, 11:35:53 AM

Quote

So the difference here is between being in a STATE of merit (sanctifying grace) and of being CAPABLE of acquiring more supernatural merit ... and ACTUAL merit.

I agree, but I don't think St Louie discussed whether or not an infant merits heaven (and I don't want to derail the conversation) but the act of receiving baptism is a meritorious act, in and of itself.  Just as it is meritorious for one to go to confession or communion, etc.  It is a mystery why the Church allows an infant to receive baptism, but that is another matter.  Suffice it to say, if an infant does not gain the merits for baptism, then they would not be able to enter heaven.  I mean, the godparents don't receive the merits; neither do the parents.  (They get merits for having the child baptised, but i'm talking about the actual merits for the sacrament.)  There are merits for this act, since there is grace attached, so who gets them?  Obviously, the infant.  Though this is a mystery.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Ladislaus on February 27, 2018, 11:40:35 AM

St. Louis de Montfort:

Quote

We give her our merits, graces and virtues, not that she might give them to others, for they are, strictly speaking, not transferable, because Jesus alone, in making himself our surety with his Father, had the power to impart his merits to us. But we give them to her that she may keep, increase and embellish them for us, as we shall explain later, and we give her our acts of atonement that she may apply them where she pleases for God's greater glory.
...
It follows then that anyone who in this way consecrates and sacrifices himself voluntarily to Jesus through Mary may no longer dispose of the value of any of his good actions.

St. Louis distinguishes clearly between the merit inherent in the good actions vs. the VALUE of the good actions.  So, for instance, I can fast and pray for someone's conversion.  When I fast and pray, I become a better person for it, and increase in sanctifying grace, and that part is non-transferable, but then I am applying the VALUE of these things for the good of this particular soul.  With this consecration I can no longer do that; Our Lady decides where and how to apply the VALUE of these actions.  And St. Louis adds the additional caveat that this is within the limits of the requirements of someone's state in life.

Quote

This dependence, however, is without detriment to the duties of a person's present and future state of life. One such duty, for example, would be that of a priest who, by virtue of his office or otherwise, must apply the satisfactory or prayer value of the Holy Mass to a particular person. For this consecration can only be made in accordance with the order established by God and in keeping with the duties of one's state of life.

So, then, what exactly is your problem with this?

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Ladislaus on February 27, 2018, 11:45:24 AM

Quote from: Pax Vobis on February 27, 2018, 11:35:53 AM

I agree, but I don't think St Louie discussed whether or not an infant merits heaven (and I don't want to derail the conversation) but the act of receiving baptism is a meritorious act, in and of itself.  Just as it is meritorious for one to go to confession or communion, etc.  It is a mystery why the Church allows an infant to receive baptism, but that is another matter.  Suffice it to say, if an infant does not gain the merits for baptism, then they would not be able to enter heaven.  I mean, the godparents don't receive the merits; neither do the parents.  (They get merits for having the child baptised, but i'm talking about the actual merits for the sacrament.)  There are merits for this act, since there is grace attached, so who gets them?  Obviously, the infant.  Though this is a mystery.

As per the previous citation from St. Louis de Montfort, this is a moot discussion ... as PG grossly mischaracterized his actual teaching on this subject.  St. Louis distinguishes between the non-transferrable aspect of merits, and the transferrable value of them.

Again, I'm certain that as part of the canonization process for St. Louis, there was a heavy theological vetting of his works, and yet PG can shoot from the hip to tear down St. Louis de Montfort ... and here we see him completely distorting his teaching ... and tearing down a straw man.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: hollingsworth on February 27, 2018, 12:06:25 PM

Quote

Myrna: Meaning you can't love Mary too much because the more you love Mary the more you will love her Son. 

Yes, and besides Louis de Montfort, you have backing up that statement, such illustrious saints as St. Boniface, St. Bernard, St. Aloysius Gonzaga, and Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich.  Though he is not yet a canonized saint, and probably never will be, you have, also, Bp. Richard Williamson.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: sedevacantist on February 27, 2018, 01:56:57 PM

Quote from: Croix de Fer on February 27, 2018, 02:03:57 AM

Firstly, the true Israel is the Catholic Church. It's not a geographical land mapped out by the United Nations in 1948. The Catholic Church is, essentially, the Bosom of Abraham. Just as before the Son became flesh and dwelt among us, only the righteous in the Bosom of Abraham were to be saved when Christ opened the gates of Heaven for them by His Divine Sacrifice, it is only baptized Catholics, who die in the state of grace, who enter Heaven.

Secondly, what mass conversion? "Mass" is a relative word. Only a minority of the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan will convert to the Catholic Church before Jesus returns. Two-thirds of the Jews will be exterminated as punishment for their rejection of God. This is the prophesy. It's in Zacharias 13:8-9


What descendants? After the Diaspora, the ѕуηαgσgυє lost their biological lineage to David when they mixed with, and converted, Khazars and, subsequently, mixing with some locals of European host nations. They're not biologically descended from David, nor are they spiritually descended from Abraham, for if they were the latter, they would have accepted Jesus Christ as the only true God and Messiah.

Your fallacy is conflating the true Israelites who lived before, and at the time of, Jesus Christ, with the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan, who are those who say they are Jews, but lie (Revelation 2:9 & 3:9).

Try learning the Catholic Faith before you espouse your subtle Jew apologetics and Zionism.

Croix de Fer,
Were you familiar with the writings of the Old Testament prophets, you would realize your error. You are seriously mistaken in your understanding of the future conversion of the physical descendants of the Nation of Israel - which St. Paul clearly makes reference to in the 11th chapter of his letter to the Romans. This prophecy is well known. How can you deny it? He's telling the Gentile Catholics not to become too proud of their conversion, for it will come to an end - followed by the conversion of the physical descendants of Israel. Do yourself, and everyone else, a favor - get acquainted with the prophecies of the Old Testament. The conversion of the physical descendants of Israel "after the fullness of the Gentiles have come in" is an indisputable prophecy.

Moreover, your comment about all the Jews migrating to Rome in the diaspora is incorrect. The vast majority followed their leaders to Babylon, where they wrote their Godless тαℓмυd. Nor do you consider the ten whole tribes of the Northern Kingdom that vanished after the invasion of the Assyrians. These God also says He will bring back to the land of Israel in the end. Again, read the Old Testament prophets. You are badly mistaken. Moreover, you seem to imagine that only full-blooded, untainted Jews amount to the physical descendants of Israel. Where did you get that from? Again, read the Old Testament prophets.

Nor do you properly understand what the "ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan" is. The "ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan" is comprised of those Khazarians (αѕнкenαzι) who converted to "Judaism" around the 8th century. They are NOT Jews at all. They neither physically descended from Israelites, nor do they practice the ancient religion of Judaism. By their own admission, these false "Jews" comprise about 94% of all who call themselves "Jews". In other words, only 6% of those who call themselves Jews, are actually physically descended from Israel. The rest are liars - the ones whom the Apocalypse says lie when they claim to be Jews. These false αѕнкenαzι "Jews", controlled by the Rothschild Dynasty, are the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan. 

Nor am I confusing the mixing of true Israel with the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan, as you contend. Truth be known, the mixing of Jews with Khazarian (αѕнкenαzι) "Jews" was severely frowned upon - and even forbidden in true Jєωιѕн circles. In reality, the two nations don't even like each other. They never have.

In the end, the entire Book of the Apocalypse is about the call of the physical descendants of Israel - the 144,000 from every tribe being only a select number of those who will convert. I already explained this in detail in my recent thread regarding the Apocalyptic curse. And yes, I realize only baptized Catholics will get to Heaven. You're not hearing me correctly. The point is that the physical descendants of Israel will be converted toward the end of the world. This is precisely what St. Paul tells the Romans. 

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Ladislaus on February 27, 2018, 02:09:19 PM

Quote from: MyrnaM on February 27, 2018, 11:11:14 AM

I confess the only point I have trouble with myself with True Devotion to Mary with one rule of not being able to mention our own personal intentions.  I am weak to just trust that we just pray and give any merits we earn to her to distribute as she chooses. I can't just stop praying for my loved one, I want so much to ask myself through Mary with words that my loved ones, all of them will die in Gods favor.

But of course you can mention your personal intentions.  At the end of the day, we leave it to Our Lady to take care of it as she sees fit.  But you don't stop being human and caring about your loved ones, and asking Our Lord and Our Lady to help them.  That would drain the very humanity out of people, and harden our hearts, and God (or Our Lady) would never ask us to do that.  It's just that, at the end of the day, we don't dictate to Our Lady how many of our prayers, sacrifices, or merits she will apply to them.  St. Louis de Montfort was confident that she will always multiply what we offer her with her own merits, so that, at the end of the day, your loved ones will benefit even more.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: hollingsworth on February 27, 2018, 03:07:56 PM

sedevacantist:

Quote

Nor do you properly understand what the "ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan" is. The "ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan" is comprised of those Khazarians (αѕнкenαzι) who converted to "Judaism" around the 8th century. They are NOT Jews at all. They neither physically descended from Israelites, nor do they practice the ancient religion of Judaism. By their own admission, these false "Jews" comprise about 94% of all who call themselves "Jews". In other words, only 6% of those who call themselves Jews, are actually physically descended from Israel. The rest are liars - the ones whom the Apocalypse says lie when they claim to be Jews. These false αѕнкenαzι "Jews", controlled by the Rothschild Dynasty, are the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan.

Sede is pretty saavy, IMO. He may get into trouble on this forum because of his user name, I don't know. LOL
But your right, the S of S is probably a reference to the Khazars, who say they are jews, but are not.  A real jew, (if one can frame it that way), is necessarily descended (physically) from Abraham, through Isaac, through Jacob.  He adheres to Moses and the Law which Moses gave, with a few minor caveats. He has no real Temple, nor does he presently practice animal sacrifice.  Nor does he have an active Levitical priesthood offering animal sacrifices on his behalf.  I think, with a little bit of effort, one can determine from the OT, i.e. from the Psalms and from the major and minor prophets, and from the writings of Paul in the NT, that real jews bear their lineage, and have their racial identity through Jacob. 
False jews, or faux jews,  are basically rabbinical.  Many descend from fierce ancient worshipers of the phallus. They adhere strictly, or culturally anyway, to a vast set of ridiculous and nonsensical, often filthy and blasphemous, writings which we can conveniently call the тαℓмυd.  The тαℓмυd bears faint, some would say, no resemblance to the old Hebrew religion, i.e. the old Covenant.
My only question for Sede is this: How does he know that "6%" is accurate?  Is this percentage derived from any verifiable data?
BTW, I believe, that nasty bunch, who infest our government at all levels, pollute our media, control our banking industry and corrupt our morals generally, are only faintly represented, if at all, by folks whom we would call real Jews

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Cantarella on February 27, 2018, 03:36:07 PM

Quote

Nor do you properly understand what the "ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan" is. The "ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan" is comprised of those Khazarians (αѕнкenαzι) who converted to "Judaism" around the 8th century. They are NOT Jews at all. They neither physically descended from Israelites, nor do they practice the ancient religion of Judaism. By their own admission, these false "Jews" comprise about 94% of all who call themselves "Jews". In other words, only 6% of those who call themselves Jews, are actually physically descended from Israel. The rest are liars - the ones whom the Apocalypse says lie when they claim to be Jews. These false αѕнкenαzι "Jews", controlled by the Rothschild Dynasty, are the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan.

Sedevacantist, it is my understanding that the "ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan" is composed of those Jews who crucified Our Lord and their descendants. Where were they and what were they doing then for the first eight centuries?. 

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Croix de Fer on February 27, 2018, 03:41:40 PM

Quote from: sedevacantist on February 27, 2018, 01:56:57 PM

Croix de Fer,
Were you familiar with the writings of the Old Testament prophets, you would realize your error. You are seriously mistaken in your understanding of the future conversion of the physical descendants of the Nation of Israel - which St. Paul clearly makes reference to in the 11th chapter of his letter to the Romans. This prophecy is well known. How can you deny it? He's telling the Gentile Catholics not to become too proud of their conversion, for it will come to an end - followed by the conversion of the physical descendants of Israel. Do yourself, and everyone else, a favor - get acquainted with the prophecies of the Old Testament. The conversion of the physical descendants of Israel "after the fullness of the Gentiles have come in" is an indisputable prophecy.

Hebevacationist, check your condescension, because I probably know far more about the Old Testament than you.

You conveniently ignore Zacharias 13:8-9 that prophesizes two-thirds of Jews around the world will be exterminated for their rejection of Jesus Christ, and the few Jews who remain will convert to the Catholic Faith. https://web.archive.org/web/20170627193123/http://haydock1859.tripod.com/id723.html (https://web.archive.org/web/20170627193123/http://haydock1859.tripod.com/id723.html)

The following is the commentary in the Haydock Catholic Bible apropose to the aforementioned verses:

Ver. 8. Third. The greatest part of mankind will be lost. (Haydock) --- The few Jews who embrace the faith will be absorbed in the Gentile converts, and suffered to live, though proved by persecutions, while the rest shall be exterminated. Both shall lose their name, and be styled Christians. (Calmet) --- Those who adhere to Judaism, or to paganism, cannot be saved. This is the privilege only of Christian Catholics, who live piously, and are selected by God's grace. (Worthington)
Ver. 9. Fire. The Church was persecuted during the first centuries; but always became more pure, and the blood of martyrs increased her numbers. (Calmet) --- She faithfully adhered to God. (Haydock) --- The Jews say this will not take place at last: "but we assert that it is already accomplished." (St. Jerome)

Quote

Hebevacationist says:
Moreover, your comment about all the Jews migrating to Rome in the diaspora is incorrect.

You either have a severe difficulty with reading comprehension or you're guilty of strawman argumentation. I didn't say "all the Jews", rather I said there were early Hebrews who predated Jesus Christ, and they migrated to Rome before He was born. Nobody knows the obvious minority of numbers who settled in Rome. They remained there throughout the ages, and, supposedly, they never mixed with any Romans/Italians. I, also, emphasized it was BEFORE Jesus Christ was born, therefore it MUST BE BEFORE the diaspora. My point about the diaspora was the other Jews lost their biological lineage to David when they mixed with Khazars and, subsequently, some Europeans. When they settled into Europe after Khazaria, they didn't go to Rome, rather they settled in other parts of Europe and Russia.

Quote

Hebevactionist says:
 These God also says He will bring back to the land of Israel in the end

That means God will bring some of the Jews to the Catholic Church, meaning they will be brought back to the Bosom of Abraham.

Catholicism 101 : the true Israel is the Catholic Church. Your ignorance is monstrous.

Quote

Hebevacationist says:
Nor do you properly understand what the "ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan"

I know exactly who is the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan. It is ALL Jews who rejected, and still reject to this day, Jesus Christ. In rejecting Jesus Christ, the Jews reject the God of their fathers. They ruptured themselves from Abraham, but they still lie by calling themselves Jews (Rev 2:9 & 3:9), If they were true Jews, they would have accepted Jesus Christ as the true God and Messiah, because He is the fulfillment of the Faith that the Lord bestowed upon Abraham. Again, that's Catholicism 101.

You and others on this thread are wrong saying that "religious" Jews who still follow the Old Law are "real Jews". Catholics are the true spiritual descendants of Abraham. The Church speaks to this fact by way of affirming, ex cathedra, that the Old Law ceased by the establishment of the Church and her Sacraments, and thus people must accept the New Covenant. To follow the New Covenant is to be a real Jew. To follow the Old Law is to suffer eternal perdition. Ex cathedra.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Franciscan Solitary on February 27, 2018, 05:56:57 PM

Quote from: Cantarella on February 27, 2018, 03:36:07 PM

Sedevacantist, it is my understanding that the "ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan" is composed of those Jews who crucified Our Lord and their descendants. Where were they and what were they doing then for the first eight centuries?.

Awesomely deep and dangerous waters these!  There is a well-established Roman Catholic vocabulary about these things for a reason.  Yes, "ALL Jews...rejected, and still reject to this day, Jesus Christ."  That is for sure.  And, yes, "Catholics are the true spiritual descendants of Abraham."  No doubt about that.
 
But, Brothers in Christ!!!!  "To follow the New Covenant is to be a real Jew"?  "EX cathedra"??  No.  Not even the Novus Ordo apostates are actually "a real Jew", much less the faithful remnant of actual existing Roman Catholics.  Again, a well-established Roman Catholic vocabulary exists for this most deadly of topics with good reason.  Why be so lazy, or spiritually suicidal, as not to make use of our own Catholic vocabulary?  Old Testament 101:  the Old Testament People of God were the Hebrews, the Israelites, aka the Old Israel.  Judeans and Judahites are the Tribe of Judah, from whence the Messiah has come.  Whereas, in normal proper Roman Catholic English, "Jews" are most emphatically Herodians, the traitors against precisely the Old Testament Hebrews/Israelites/Old Israel with its Twelve Tribes, at the forefront among those having been the Tribe of Judah/Judahites.

Which means:  "Jews" are by Catholic definition the apostate scuмbag traitors who have betrayed everything the Old Testament ever stood for in favour of the Edomite/Amalekite Herodian Royal Family and its absolutely alien and antithetical Satanic religion, namely the religion of the Edomite/Herodian Anti-Bible, the Babylonian тαℓмυd.  Why else did King Herod butcher most of the Hebrew/Israelite Sanhedrin and replace them with his own Herodian traitors?  To inflict the historic Edomite false religion (aka the Pharisees) on Old Israel and then, obviously, arrange the outrageously illegal murder of God the Messiah on earth.  In brief, to destroy everything the Ancient White Hebrews/Israelites had ever worked and fought for.

To call the Roman Catholics "the true Jews" is no different from calling Catholics "the true Soviet Bolsheviks".  We are no more followers of the Satanic religion of King Herod and Ancient Edom (i.e., the Babylonian тαℓмυd) than we are fanatic partisans of Soviet Bolshevism.

It should also be obvious to Catholics that the Jews parallel the Fallen Angels before them and the Novus Ordo Apostates after them.  In all three instances there is the same diabolical process:  Demons are Fallen Angels, no longer actual angels proper.  Their nature has changed, greatly for the worse no doubt.  Similarly, Jews are fallen ex-Hebrews/Israelites whose nature has also changed in a radically negative direction.  And also the contemporary ex-Catholic Neo-Liberal Neo-Trotskyist Marxist Apostates have suffered the same unpleasant alteration.  They are indeed alien hostile Soviet Bolshevik wolves in sheep's clothing.  Roman Catholics no longer, they are hideous weird diseased foreign freaks spiritually and effectively imported from the former Russian Empire and Soviet Union.  Their actual Holy Book is, obviously, the Communist Manifesto and when they malevolently speak of Our Lord they, of course, mean only Karl Marx, never any historic Jesus Christ born in Bethlehem or anything of the sort.

So the Novus Ordo apostates worship the historic Karl Marx while calling that most unfortunate Jew by a divine Catholic title.  They pretend that the Bible is the тαℓмυd updated with the Communist Manifesto, while in actual fact making use of the тαℓмυd and Communist Manifesto only.  They feign Catholicism while in reality they are nothing better than alien Soviet Bolshevik homicidal savages and circus freaks.  (No offence meant to the poor actual circus freaks.)  

For those who imagine that this language is too severe, let's try and remember that apostasy is a terribly serious evil, not a minor offence.  

Demons are not angels properly speaking; Marxist apostates are not Roman Catholics; in the same pattern, Jews are not the Old Testament People of God, the Ancient White Hebrews of Old Israel.  Jews are racially degenerate fallen ex-Hebrews gone very very bad.  Their nature has been radically altered, immeasurably for the worse.  And if we need to be a bit sentimental here and wonder what actually became of the faithful remnant of the Ancient Hebrews, then we need go no further than -- the historic Roman Catholic priesthood and the Catholic aristocracy most closely associated with them.  The Carolignians are the main historic survival of the Ancient Hebrews (not the Jews!!!) and the Carolignians form the core of the entire historic Roman Catholic aristocracy, which in turn is the social basis of our historic Roman Catholic priesthood.

Please, let's keep our vocabulary Catholic in this discussion.  When we look in a mirror we might perhaps see Ancient White Hebrews and Israelites.  But Jews?  No, we are not demons, we are not apostate Bolshevik beasts and we are not Jews, who Our Lord calls Satan's own spawn.  

The Roman Catholics are not the unfortunate Children of Satan, but rather the blessed Children of God!

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: sedevacantist on February 27, 2018, 06:21:05 PM

Quote from: hollingsworth on February 27, 2018, 03:07:56 PM

sedevacantist:Sede is pretty saavy, IMO. He may get into trouble on this forum because of his user name, I don't know. LOL
But your right, the S of S is probably a reference to the Khazars, who say they are jews, but are not.  A real jew, (if one can frame it that way), is necessarily descended (physically) from Abraham, through Isaac, through Jacob.  He adheres to Moses and the Law which Moses gave, with a few minor caveats. He has no real Temple, nor does he presently practice animal sacrifice.  Nor does he have an active Levitical priesthood offering animal sacrifices on his behalf.  I think, with a little bit of effort, one can determine from the OT, i.e. from the Psalms and from the major and minor prophets, and from the writings of Paul in the NT, that real jews bear their lineage, and have their racial identity through Jacob.  
False jews, or faux jews,  are basically rabbinical.  Many descend from fierce ancient worshipers of the phallus. They adhere strictly, or culturally anyway, to a vast set of ridiculous and nonsensical, often filthy and blasphemous, writings which we can conveniently call the тαℓмυd.  The тαℓмυd bears faint, some would say, no resemblance to the old Hebrew religion, i.e. the old Covenant.
My only question for Sede is this: How does he know that "6%" is accurate?  Is this percentage derived from any verifiable data?
BTW, I believe, that nasty bunch, who infest our government at all levels, pollute our media, control our banking industry and corrupt our morals generally, are only faintly represented, if at all, by folks whom we would call real Jews

The figure of 94% was lifted from the Encyclopedia Judaica, if I remember correctly.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: sedevacantist on February 27, 2018, 06:36:46 PM

Quote from: Cantarella on February 27, 2018, 03:36:07 PM

Sedevacantist, it is my understanding that the "ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan" is composed of those Jews who crucified Our Lord and their descendants. Where were they and what were they doing then for the first eight centuries?.

Yours is certainly the common understanding. I think it evolved out of the "Catholic Church is the true Israel" position. Naturally, if Catholics are the true Israel, then Jews MUST be the "ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan". That seems to be the reasoning. Whereas this has some merit in a certain sense, the particular "ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan" spoken of in the Apocalypse refers to the αѕнкenαzι "Jews". This is why the Apocalypse speaks of them as bowing to the real Jews:  "Behold, I will bring of the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan, who say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie. Behold, I will make them to come and adore before thy feet." (Apoc. 3:9) This will be all the sweeter on account of the fact that the αѕнкenαzι do not like true Jews, and actually persecute them in Israel. 

Keep in mind, the entire Apocalypse is about Israel's return. As long as you remember this, you should do well.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: sedevacantist on February 27, 2018, 07:25:01 PM

Quote from: Croix de Fer on February 27, 2018, 03:41:40 PM

Hebevacationist, check your condescension, because I probably know far more about the Old Testament than you.

You conveniently ignore Zacharias 13:8-9 that prophesizes two-thirds of Jews around the world will be exterminated for their rejection of Jesus Christ, and the few Jews who remain will convert to the Catholic Faith. https://web.archive.org/web/20170627193123/http://haydock1859.tripod.com/id723.html (https://web.archive.org/web/20170627193123/http://haydock1859.tripod.com/id723.html)

The following is the commentary in the Haydock Catholic Bible apropose to the aforementioned verses:

Ver. 8. Third. The greatest part of mankind will be lost. (Haydock) --- The few Jews who embrace the faith will be absorbed in the Gentile converts, and suffered to live, though proved by persecutions, while the rest shall be exterminated. Both shall lose their name, and be styled Christians. (Calmet) --- Those who adhere to Judaism, or to paganism, cannot be saved. This is the privilege only of Christian Catholics, who live piously, and are selected by God's grace. (Worthington)
Ver. 9. Fire. The Church was persecuted during the first centuries; but always became more pure, and the blood of martyrs increased her numbers. (Calmet) --- She faithfully adhered to God. (Haydock) --- The Jews say this will not take place at last: "but we assert that it is already accomplished." (St. Jerome)

You either have a severe difficulty with reading comprehension or you're guilty of strawman argumentation. I didn't say "all the Jews", rather I said there were early Hebrews who predated Jesus Christ, and they migrated to Rome before He was born. Nobody knows the obvious minority of numbers who settled in Rome. They remained there throughout the ages, and, supposedly, they never mixed with any Romans/Italians. I, also, emphasized it was BEFORE Jesus Christ was born, therefore it MUST BE BEFORE the diaspora. My point about the diaspora was the other Jews lost their biological lineage to David when they mixed with Khazars and, subsequently, some Europeans. When they settled into Europe after Khazaria, they didn't go to Rome, rather they settled in other parts of Europe and Russia.

That means God will bring some of the Jews to the Catholic Church, meaning they will be brought back to the Bosom of Abraham.

Catholicism 101 : the true Israel is the Catholic Church. Your ignorance is monstrous.

I know exactly who is the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan. It is ALL Jews who rejected, and still reject to this day, Jesus Christ. In rejecting Jesus Christ, the Jews reject the God of their fathers. They ruptured themselves from Abraham, but they still lie by calling themselves Jews (Rev 2:9 & 3:9), If they were true Jews, they would have accepted Jesus Christ as the true God and Messiah, because He is the fulfillment of the Faith that the Lord bestowed upon Abraham. Again, that's Catholicism 101.

You and others on this thread are wrong saying that "religious" Jews who still follow the Old Law are "real Jews". Catholics are the true spiritual descendants of Abraham. The Church speaks to this fact by way of affirming, ex cathedra, that the Old Law ceased by the establishment of the Church and her Sacraments, and thus people must accept the New Covenant. To follow the New Covenant is to be a real Jew. To follow the Old Law is to suffer eternal perdition. Ex cathedra.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to ignore the verse. I agree with it. Two thirds of Israel will be damned. This is where we get the 666 from. I'm not denying this. On the other hand, you are denying St. Paul's well known prophecy of the future return of the physical descendants of Israel. How?

And my apologies for misinterpreting the "Jews went to Rome" thing.

In regard to the Catholic Church being the true Israel, this is true in a certain sense. But the physical descendants of the Israelites will return to the land of Israel, as the prophets of the Old Testament have said numerous times. I'm sorry, but your ignorance of this prophetic occurrence, which is plainly obvious in their writings, leads me to believe that you cannot have been familiar with their writings. In fact, you don't seem to grasp the writings of the prophets at all - not even Zacharia, wherein it's prophesied in chapter 8:

"Thus saith the Lord of hosts: I am returned to Sion, and I will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called The city of truth, and the mountain of the Lord of hosts, The sanctified mountain. Thus saith the Lord of hosts: There shall yet old men and old women dwell in the streets of Jerusalem: and every man with his staff in his hand through multitude of days. And the streets of the city shall be full of boys and girls, playing in the streets thereof.Thus saith the Lord of hosts: If it seem hard in the eyes of the remnant of this people in those days: shall it be hard in my eyes, saith the Lord of hosts? Thus saith the Lord of hosts: Behold I will save my people from the land of the east, and from the land of the going down of the sun. And I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God in truth and in justice."

You can argue for the Catholic Church's being meant here (and everywhere else) but in the end, it doesn't work. The prophecies are clear about the return of the physical descendants of Israel to the physical land of Israel - which, according to Scripture, will then become like Eden. (Ez. 36:35)

And where on earth did you get this from: "You and others on this thread are wrong saying that "religious" Jews who still follow the Old Law are "real Jews". I never said that. What I said was that those who are physically descended from the ancient Jews are the ones who are true Jews. The αѕнкenαzι are false "Jews". They are the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: roscoe on February 27, 2018, 08:41:48 PM

Quote from: PG on February 26, 2018, 03:54:18 PM

"And Jesus said to them: Yea, have you never read: Out of the mouth of infants and of sucklings thou hast perfected praise?"

You are not so critical of Pius XII now.  He "opened the floodgates" as you say, he elevated all the clerics who were responsible for vatican 2, he forwarded evolution, and he promoted NFP.  But, he like or unlike all the rest of the novus ordo popes could never have been fallible in respect to canonizing someone who is not a saint?   At least trust me here, his canonization and its details is not in the slightest the hallmark of my argument against him.  I simply was providing hollingsworth with correct facts.  

Lad has been reading way too much Mrs Martinez... :sleep: who in addition to Pius XII is also a libeler of Card Rampolla of whom the Pope was at one time a personal student.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Croix de Fer on February 28, 2018, 04:48:23 AM

Quote from: Franciscan Solitary on February 27, 2018, 05:56:57 PM

There is a well-established Roman Catholic vocabulary about these things for a reason.
[...]
Please, let's keep our vocabulary Catholic in this discussion.  When we look in a mirror we might perhaps see Ancient White Hebrews and Israelites.  But Jews?  

The word "Jew(s)" is mentioned various times in the New Testament to refer to adherents to the Mosaic Law, which Christ fulfilled. The phrase "King of the Jews" was placed above Jesus on the cross.

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sedevacantist says:
The figure of 94% was lifted from the Encyclopedia Judaica, if I remember correctly.

Yeah, lets quote a source from Jews who are notorious for being liars.

Quote

sedevacantist says:
This is why the Apocalypse speaks of them as bowing to the real Jews: "Behold, I will bring of the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan, who say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie. Behold, I will make them to come and adore before thy feet." (Apoc. 3:9)

Wrong. That verse means the ѕуηαgσgυє (ALL Jews) will bow to the persecuted Catholics who were targeted for enslavement and death by Jews since Jesus Christ's Divine Sacrifice.

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sedevacantist says:
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to ignore the verse. I agree with it. Two thirds of Israel will be damned. This is where we get the 666 from.

You're making up more false theology & eschatology as we go along. The Mark of the Beast (666) isn't in regard to the coming extermination of most Jews for their rejection of God. The mention of "666" in the Bible is a different topic which I can discuss later, if you ask me. For the sake of brevity, I will stick to the issues at hand.

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sedevacantist says:
"Thus saith the Lord of hosts: I am returned to Sion, and I will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: [...]"

I know Christ will return and take His seat in Jerusalem, but that doesn't mean there are physical descendants of David that will dwell with Him there. It means Catholics will dwell with Him there. The grounds of Jerusalem were made sacred by the spilling of Jesus Christ's Blood during His Divine Sacrifice. For this reason, Jerusalem and all of so-called "Israel" founded in 1948 rightfully belongs to Catholics, not Jews.

Your interpretation of the scripture is very Protestant and Judaized.

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sedevacantist says:
What I said was that those who are physically descended from the ancient Jews are the ones who are true Jews. The αѕнкenαzι are false "Jews". They are the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan.

Wrong, again. They ruptured themselves from Abraham by their rejecting Jesus Christ Who fulfilled the Mosiac Law and prophesy. They can still pretend to be "Jews" by claiming to follow the Old Law, but it's no different than a Novus Ordoite claiming to be "Catholic" when he practices the teachings of Newchurch, and he attends the sacrilegious Novus Ordo service ostensibly called "mass".

To reject Jesus Christ is to reject God. It's to sever themselves (Jews) from the faith of their fathers, the very faith that prophesized, and prepared the way for, the coming of Jesus Christ. Hence, they are not real Jews, but liars and the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan (Rev 2:9 & 3:9) You're too Jewy to accept this truth. You're obtuse.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: sedevacantist on February 28, 2018, 12:05:20 PM

Quote from: Cantarella on February 27, 2018, 03:36:07 PM

Sedevacantist, it is my understanding that the "ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan" is composed of those Jews who crucified Our Lord and their descendants. Where were they and what were they doing then for the first eight centuries?.

I wanted to mention one more thing that I failed to cover yesterday: 
In reference to the second half of your question, I think you're assuming they must have existed somewhere for those 8 centuries because they are spoken of in the Letters to the Seven Churches. Am I right? The mystery surrounding the Seven Churches has been a topic of misunderstanding for a long time. So let me give you what I believe is the proper interpretation... The Seven Churches of Asia represent seven churches, or congregations, that will form in the land of Israel following the preaching of the Two Witnesses. Each one of the Asiatic Churches corresponds to one of the Israelite Churches. Since those in Israel haven't formed yet, it's impossible to tell which corresponds to which. However, we know that the Church of "Pergamos" will be the Church in Jerusalem, since Scripture says this is where the Antichrist will set up his palace (Dan. 11:45).  

Obviously, Christ couldn't have instructed St. John to write to nonexistent Churches, and so He allowed the seven Churches in Asia to fall into the same errors that will be manifest in the future Israelite Churches. In this way, He was able to use them as a reference - metaphorically. The point being, when the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan is mentioned in the Letters to the Seven Churches, this doesn't necessarily mean this "ѕуηαgσgυє" existed at the time of St. John's writing. These letters are ultimately meant for the future Churches in Israel.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: PG on February 28, 2018, 12:12:36 PM

Quote from: Pax Vobis on February 27, 2018, 10:46:24 AM

PG, this is not true.  Any catholic has earned supernatural merit at some point in their life.  Doesn't mean they will gain heaven.  Ergo, those who go to hell still have merit, and still may have done good works, but they did not have a 'wedding garment' therefore they were cast outside of the wedding feast.

You are confusing and falsely applying the word merit.  When we fall from sanctifying grace or habitual grace, we do not "merit" hell.  You could say we "demerit" hell.  Just look up the definitions and antonyms of merit.  You are making an error similar to how vatican 2 says we have a "right" to religious liberty.  We do not have a "right" to error, and similarly we do not "merit" hell.  Merit is a claim to respect or praise.  It can never be a bad thing.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: sedevacantist on February 28, 2018, 12:13:46 PM

Quote from: MyrnaM on February 27, 2018, 11:11:14 AM

I confess the only point I have trouble with myself with True Devotion to Mary with one rule of not being able to mention our own personal intentions.  I am weak to just trust that we just pray and give any merits we earn to her to distribute as she chooses. I can't just stop praying for my loved one, I want so much to ask myself through Mary with words that my loved ones, all of them will die in Gods favor.

Ladislaus is right, Myrna - we should never stop praying for our loved ones. 
The beauty of the Consecration is that the Mother of God takes whatever good we offer to her, such as prayers, and perfects them. This is the tremendous benefit of the Consecration. Therefore, by all means, keep praying for them...

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: PG on February 28, 2018, 12:33:51 PM

Pax vobis - just look at lucifer's fall.  Sin abounds all the more in a soul(spirit in the case of lucifer) that was once filled with so much grace.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: PG on February 28, 2018, 12:44:00 PM

Croix de fer - maybe mass conversion is a change referring to how we consume unleavened bread.  Because, that certainly has occurred.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Ladislaus on February 28, 2018, 12:49:08 PM

Quote from: roscoe on February 27, 2018, 08:41:48 PM

Lad has been reading way too much Mrs Martinez... :sleep: who in addition to Pius XII is also a libeler of Card Rampolla of whom the Pope was at one time a personal student.

So, which of these criticisms of Pius XII is not true?  I have listed only facts, my friend.

Fact:  Pius XII appointed Bugnini to start various liturgical experiemntations
Fact:  Pius XII opened the door to evolution
Fact:  Pius XII opened the door to NFP
Fact:  Pius XII appointed most of the bishops who would later bring us Vatican II

Explain to me which of these facts is false?

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: sedevacantist on February 28, 2018, 01:57:23 PM

Quote from: Croix de Fer on February 28, 2018, 04:48:23 AM

The word "Jew(s)" is mentioned various times in the New Testament to refer to adherents to the Mosaic Law, which Christ fulfilled. The phrase "King of the Jews" was placed above Jesus on the cross.

First of all, the term "Jew" is used in the New Testament to refer to those who both accepted AND rejected Christ - not specifically those who followed the Mosaic Law. For example, the term is used repeatedly in the Book of Acts to refer to those "Jews" who persecuted the early Christian Church. Apparently you don't understand what a Jew is. So let me help you: The Nation of Israel split into two separate factions following the rise of King Roboam. Ten tribes refused to acknowledge the hereditary right of Davidic Kingship over them and formed their own kingdom in the northern region of the Land of Israel. This region was called the "Kingdom of Israel". Those faithful Israelites who followed the Davidic line of kings settled in the southern region, referred to as the "Kingdom of Judah". 

Now, not everyone who lived in the southern kingdom was of the Tribe of Judah. Many were from the Tribe of Benjamin; and there was a spattering from the other tribes as well who migrated to the south. As time went on, any Israelite who lived in the Southern Kingdom was referred to as a "Jew" - no matter what tribe he was from. As long as they lived in the Southern Kingdom, they were called "Jews". Granted, the Tribe of Judah was by far the most populous - but they were not the only "Jews". Anyway, the point is that anyone who lived in the Southern Kingdom of Judah was called a "Jew". That's what the term means - an Israelite from the Southern Kingdom of Judah. It has absolutely nothing to do with what religion the individual is practicing. It's merely an ethnic distinction based upon where in the Land of Israel one lives. That's all it means. This is why Scripture refers to those who follow the Mosaic Law, AS WELL AS those who reject it, as "Jews". The title has nothing to do with religion. It's an ethnic distinction based upon where one lives.

With this consideration in mind, it should be obvious why one cannot logically refer to Catholics as "Jews". The appellation literally makes no sense at all. This is what you don't seem to understand. You equate the term "Jew" with "Israel", as if the two are one and the same. Wrong. The "Jews" are only a fraction of "Israel". This is an historical fact. Ten whole tribes disappeared following the invasion of the northern kingdom by the Assyrians. And only 50,000 returned from Babylon after the first Temple was destroyed. That means there are a lot of physical descendants of Israel wandering around somewhere. God knows who and where they are. In fact, He's going to single out 144,000 of them during the Apocalyptic Era (Apoc. 7:4). so again, "Jews" only make up a fraction of "Israel". They are by no means "Israel" itself. Learn your history.

And as for this statement: "Wrong, again. They ruptured themselves from Abraham by their rejecting Jesus Christ Who fulfilled the Mosiac Law and prophesy." This is just more of your misunderstanding of the Old Testament. You might know verses, but you don't understand what they mean. The Protestants can recite verses too, but they have no idea what those verses mean. Again, you should read the Old Testament prophets. Your position is hopelessly at odds with Scripture (not to mention the prophecy of St. Paul which you still refuse to answer [Rom. 11:25]).

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: sedevacantist on February 28, 2018, 02:44:42 PM

Quote from: PG on February 28, 2018, 12:44:00 PM

Croix de fer - maybe mass conversion is a change referring to how we consume unleavened bread.  Because, that certainly has occurred.

No. Croix de Fer just misunderstands the numbers. When Scripture mentions the figure of 2/3 in the Book of Zacharias (ch.13), this number refers to the TOTAL number of Israelites who will be damned - from the days of Jacob to the final judgement. It doesn't necessarily mean 2/3 of those alive on earth today.

Considering their woeful history of worshiping pagan deities, it could reasonably be said that, up until now, more than 99% of the physical descendants of Israel have been damned. It sounds extreme, but you have to remember that throughout the Old Testament era, scarcely any of them were saved. Remember in the 3rd Book of Kings (19:18 ) when God told Elijah that out of all Israel, He had saved only 7000 from "bending the knee to Baal". That's 7000 out of millions. And this is pretty much how it was throughout the Old Testament era. Scarcely any Israelites were saved at all. And so, we have to ask, "When are the 1/3 going to be saved? And exactly how many end-time conversions are we talking about?"

Frankly, I don't think its unreasonable to speak of an incredibly vast number of Israelite conversions prior to the Second Coming. When St. Paul mentions the conversion of Israel at the end of the world, he might very well mean the vast majority of Israelites alive on earth at that time. Considering the whole, this would still fall short of the 1/3 who will be saved. 

Another possibility may be that the 1/3 will emerge from those left standing after the Second Coming - those who will live and repopulate the world during the 1000-year reign of Christ. With Lucifer chained up in Hell, they will undoubtedly increase by the billions. And so, it's possible that this is from where and when the 1/3 will emerge. Who knows? The point is the same: There will be a mass conversion of Israel toward the end, just as St. Paul prophesied.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: PG on February 28, 2018, 03:01:57 PM

Similar to how wolves howl at the full moon, sinners will pretend to worship mary in her times of great influence in the church.  But, wolves don't only howl at the full moon.  Wolves howl at the other wolf packs to establish and confirm their elite status.  This is what montfortianism does to the church.  It creates all these "elite" factions(feeneyites, vacantists, and ecclesia dei) who hate each other, and hate true faith and morals.  Their proposed solution of total consecration with a pseudo new baptism is the consummation of their teaching, but it is not the consummation of their problems.  They have other problems.    

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m54lLDY71I

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Pax Vobis on February 28, 2018, 03:26:10 PM

It is widely reported that conservative cardinals at V2 wanted to issue a doctrinal statement declaring Our Lady as Mediatrix of All Graces.  Unfortunately, their efforts were derailed, as were many other noble efforts.  While the 'mediatrix' idea is not yet a 'defined' dogma, and while it is not REQUIRED to be believed, Our Lady being the intercessor between us and Her Son, in all things, is ABSOLUTELY a consistantly held idea throughout history.  St Louie merely takes the sentiments of all the saints throughout history who had a particular devotion to Our Lady and expounds on their devotion.  There's nothing that St Louie says that is anti-catholic; on the contrary, he explains the catholic viewpoint on Our Lady perfectly.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: PG on February 28, 2018, 03:58:13 PM

Pax vobis - they say the same thing about vatican 2.  There is nothing in it that is explicitly "anti catholic".  But, the council is none the less bad and must be rejected.  I have read all of de montforts writings, and I will say the same thing about his book true devotion.

It is simple, there is no escaping the fact that louis de montfort  believed and taught that a queen has the right to not only own slaves as a result of her dignity(implying apart from any crimes on the part of the slaves), but that she has a right to put to death(murder) such slaves as her pleasure sees fit(apart from any judgment of the church).  He not only promoted such a right, but he suggested the duty of.  I mean he started a religious order to further the cause.    

And, I don't believe that these popes many quote who supported him actually knew what he taught, similar to how the majority of bishops did not know what vatican 2 taught.  They simply see their catch phrase buzz word(s) that they associate with "the way", and put their stamp of approval on it.  

Fortunately for me I do not have to explain this in theory.  It is in front of us all to see.  The CMRI do the total consecration.  They are the worst of the sedevacantists.  They have dubious orders that they sit proud and play ignorant of, while at the same time they usurp authority over a church they proudly judge entirely invalid outside of themselves.  They are lamentable.  Their total consecration has not protected them in this sense.  Their marian devotion has not preserved them.

The feeneyites are the next example.  They are, many if not all, doing the montfortian total consecration.  But, that has not preserved them.  They mirror the cmri in different substance yet similar lamentable style.  

You will find this wherever total consecration is being performed.  If you do not want to judge louis de montfort by his own fruit.  Judge him by the fruit of his followers.  I will not dine with louis de montfort, and neither will I dance with him.  

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Croix de Fer on February 28, 2018, 04:09:49 PM

Quote from: sedevacantist on February 28, 2018, 02:44:42 PM

No. Croix de Fer just misunderstands the numbers. When Scripture mentions the figure of 2/3 in the Book of Zacharias (ch.13), this number refers to the TOTAL number of Israelites who will be damned - from the days of Jacob to the final judgement. It doesn't necessarily mean 2/3 of those alive on earth today.

Wrong, again, Jew. Not only will those two-thirds be damned, but they will be exterminated on earth as a punishment from God. It will happen in the future as an event or sequence of events. Even some of the "religious" in the ѕуηαgσgυє know that verse is exactly what I said it to be, and it's a great source of anxiety for them.

Quote

Hebevacantist says:
First of all, the term "Jew" is used in the New Testament to refer to those who both accepted AND rejected Christ - not specifically those who followed the Mosaic Law.

I already know that...

The bulk of your following comments is drivel.

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Hebevacantist says:
And as for this statement: "Wrong, again. They ruptured themselves from Abraham by their rejecting Jesus Christ Who fulfilled the Mosiac Law and prophesy." This is just more of your misunderstanding of the Old Testament. You might know verses, but you don't understand what they mean.

No, it's you being either ignorant of the Catholic teaching or you being an ill-willed crypto-Jew who is not sincerely Catholic, but rather a Jew apologist wearing a Catholic cloak, and using Catholic forums to spout your falsities. Didn't you even admit that you have kike blood in you?

Catholicism 101: the Lord does not render privilege to people based on race. That was wiped away when the Jews continued to break the covenants that God made with them, and when they committed the crime of Deicide, for which the Jews became a cursed race due to the events in Matthew 27:25.

Don't think you're special because you're a Jew boy. Do you not know that Jews who rejected and still reject Jesus Christ are offspring of the Serpent in Genesis 3:15?

Also, read Galatians 3:28-29 as it tells us there is no racial favoritism.

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Hebevacantist says:
. Your position is hopelessly at odds with Scripture (not to mention the prophecy of St. Paul which you still refuse to answer [Rom. 11:25]).

I already answered it, Jew.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Pax Vobis on February 28, 2018, 04:15:56 PM

Quote

Pax vobis - they say the same thing about vatican 2.  There is nothing in it that is explicitly "anti catholic".  But, the council is none the less bad and must be rejected.

The difference is that V2 is anti-tradition and counter-church history.  St Louie's description of Our Lady is not only consistent with Tradition but in agreement with many of the saints.  You might not like his 'catchwords' of 'slave' or 'queen', but the the ideas implicit in his writings are not new.

Quote

Their total consecration has not protected them in this sense.  Their marian devotion has not preserved them.

In our day and age, you can pick ANY prayer or devotion and point to many catholics who have lost their faith or their moderation, in spite of said prayer or devotion (including even the Holy Mass itself).  We live in extraordinary times, and the examples of catholics falling away or acting extreme is more due to the loss of a good pope and church authority, not the fault of a prayer or devotion.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: PG on February 28, 2018, 05:06:56 PM

Pax vobis - no, I don't dislike his catchwords, they make it possible to understand him if one you are educated, and two you have a long enough memory to survive his unending contradictions.  Not a page will go by without a significant contradiction in what he says.  What I don't like is the obvious that I have pointed out, and the not so obvious that I will not point out.  I have only scratched the surface with de montfort here, the message I get when reading his works is much more diabolical.  And, it is in my opinion not at all consistent with tradition.  

And, leave individual cases aside, because I am not judging individuals, I am referring to institutional cases.  And, institutions as an institution can be judged.  And, the examples I cited were of that.  When it comes to the feeneyites, it is the slaves of mary institution that I am mainly referring to.   

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Pax Vobis on February 28, 2018, 05:13:24 PM

Your institutional examples aren’t big enough to denote a pattern.  How big is CMRI?  How many people are wrong?  There’s only been a few hundred feeneyite religious over a period of 50 yrs.  Even if every single one of them were a lunatic, that’s still way too small for you to make your sweeping generalizations.  

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: sedevacantist on February 28, 2018, 05:35:09 PM

Quote from: Croix de Fer on February 28, 2018, 04:09:49 PM

Wrong, again, Jew. Not only will those two-thirds be damned, but they will be exterminated on earth as a punishment from God. It will happen in the future as an event or sequence of events. Even some of the "religious" in the ѕуηαgσgυє know that verse is exactly what I said it to be, and it's a great source of anxiety for them.

You're right. I just read the verse.


As to your statement: "Catholicism 101: the Lord does not render privilege to people based on race."

Are you sure? God doesn't favor the physical descendants of converted Israel over the Gentile converts? Have a look at the following verses. Mind you, these are speaking of the converted Gentiles who will live during the Millennial reign of Christ - that is, the Catholic Gentiles:
“Thus saith the Lord God: Behold I will lift up my hand to the Gentiles, and will set up my standard to the people. And they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and carry thy daughters upon their shoulders. And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and queens thy nurses: they shall worship thee with their face toward the earth, and they shall lick up the dust of thy feet.” (Is. 49:22-23)

In other words, the Gentile Catholics will be looked at as inferior to the Israelite converts. The Catholic Gentile kings and queens will be servants to the Israelites. The will bow to the Israelites. And again, in chapter 8 of Zacharias, we hear the same thing said in reference to the same Catholic Gentiles who will be alive during the Millennial reign:
“Thus saith the Lord of hosts: In those days, wherein ten men of all languages of the Gentiles shall take hold, and shall hold fast the shirt of one that is a Jew, saying: We will go with you: FOR WE HAVE HEARD THAT GOD IS WITH YOU.” (Zach. 8:23)

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: PG on February 28, 2018, 06:50:02 PM

Quote from: Pax Vobis on February 28, 2018, 05:13:24 PM

Your institutional examples aren’t big enough to denote a pattern.  How big is CMRI?  How many people are wrong?  There’s only been a few hundred feeneyite religious over a period of 50 yrs.  Even if every single one of them were a lunatic, that’s still way too small for you to make your sweeping generalizations.  

Sedevacantism and feeneyism are the two main opponents of tradition today, waiving a tradition banner, as far as I am concerned.  And, the places I listed are mecca's of these ideologies.  And, monfortian total consecration is a fundamental dimension of their charism/spirituatlity.  I will make the generalization all day and sleep soundly at night.  

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Pax Vobis on February 28, 2018, 09:29:07 PM

You can make your generalizations all you want but it’s only applicable for the last 40-50 years, at most.  St Louie’s book has been around for 200+ years.  So give me some examples of lunacy pre-1970s, or your examples are short-sighted. 

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Croix de Fer on March 01, 2018, 08:11:18 AM

Quote from: sedevacantist on February 28, 2018, 05:35:09 PM

As to your statement: "Catholicism 101: the Lord does not render privilege to people based on race."

Are you sure? God doesn't favor the physical descendants of converted Israel over the Gentile converts?

One of the bases of Catholicism is that Heaven is attained by Faith and works, NOT by racial preference by God, which is one of the underlying impetuses of Jєωιѕн hate for, and attacks against, the Catholic Church. Likewise, Jesus Christ tells us the last on earth will be the first in Heaven, and it's usually Catholics with the greatest Faith and works on earth who are last regarding power, privilege, wealth, recognition, etc. They are virtually unknown and ignored, just as Blessed Mary was virtually unknown until she married Joseph. God even kept Blessed Mary hidden, in a sense, from the angels, which is why they asked, "who is that?", in awe of her  and in reference to her as a holy child growing up, as per St. Louis de Montfort's belief in his book True Devotion To Mary.

Quote

sedevacantist says:
Have a look at the following verses. Mind you, these are speaking of the converted Gentiles who will live during the Millennial reign of Christ - that is, the Catholic Gentiles:
“Thus saith the Lord God: Behold I will lift up my hand to the Gentiles, and will set up my standard to the people. And they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and carry thy daughters upon their shoulders. And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and queens thy nurses: they shall worship thee with their face toward the earth, and they shall lick up the dust of thy feet.” (Is. 49:22-23)

Firstly, your view of Millennialism is very Protestant. The Catholic view is that the world is currently living in the Millennial age. "1,000 years" is not necessarily literal in meaning, but only figurative to denote a very long age.

Regarding the scripture you cite, you have, once again, distorted its meaning.

As per the Haydock Catholic Bible apropos to those verses https://web.archive.org/web/20170627203146/http://haydock1859.tripod.com/id1269.html:


Ver. 22. Shoulders. Thus the Syrians commonly carried children astride. (Cotovic. xiv.)

Ver. 23. Nurses. The Persian kings favoured the captives. The greatest monarchs bow before the prelates of the Church, (Menochius) and kiss the Pope's toe. They venerate relics, (Haydock) and greatly enrich the Church. (Calmet)

Quote

sedevacantist says:
In other words, the Gentile Catholics will be looked at as inferior to the Israelite converts. The Catholic Gentile kings and queens will be servants to the Israelites. The will bow to the Israelites. And again, in chapter 8 of Zacharias, we hear the same thing said in reference to the same Catholic Gentiles who will be alive during the Millennial reign:
“Thus saith the Lord of hosts: In those days, wherein ten men of all languages of the Gentiles shall take hold, and shall hold fast the shirt of one that is a Jew, saying: We will go with you: FOR WE HAVE HEARD THAT GOD IS WITH YOU.” (Zach. 8:23)

:facepalm:

That verse (Zach 8:23) means the Gentiles will become seeds of Abraham and heirs according to the promise by their coming to accept Jesus Christ as the only true Lord and Savior. It means Gentiles will recognize God is with Jesus Christ, for He is God Himself.

As per Haydock Catholic Bible https://web.archive.org/web/20170627193615/http://haydock1859.tripod.com/id718.html:


Ver. 23. Ten men, &c. Many of the Gentiles became proselytes to the Jєωιѕн religion before Christ; but many more were converted to Christ by the apostles and other preachers of the Jєωιѕн nation. (Challoner) --- Skirt, or hem, by which the Jews were distinguished, Numbers xv. 38., and Matthew ix. 20. (Calmet)

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: sedevacantist on March 01, 2018, 07:10:54 PM

Quote from: Croix de Fer on March 01, 2018, 08:11:18 AM

One of the bases of Catholicism is that Heaven is attained by Faith and works, NOT by racial preference by God, 

You're not understanding the point. The point is that the converted Israelites are favored above the converted Gentile. That's what the verse means. It has nothing to do with the process of salvation:

“Thus saith the Lord God: Behold I will lift up my hand to the Gentiles, and will set up my standard to the people. And they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and carry thy daughters upon their shoulders. And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and queens thy nurses: they shall worship thee with their face toward the earth, and they shall lick up the dust of thy feet.” (Is. 49:22-23)

And as for the commentaries upon this passage: Are you serious? 
Ver. 22. Shoulders. Thus the Syrians commonly carried children astride. (Cotovic. xiv.)
Ver. 23. Nurses. The Persian kings favoured the captives. The greatest monarchs bow before the prelates of the Church, (Menochius) and kiss the Pope's toe. They venerate relics, (Haydock) and greatly enrich the Church. (Calmet)

These have got to be some of the lamest attempts at biblical interpretation I've ever seen. In fact, they border on idiotic. "Thus the Syrians carried children astride?" What? Do you honestly believe this is what the verse is talking about? First of all, the chapter in general is concerned with the Nation of Israel - not the Gentile Church:

"Thus saith the Lord the redeemer of Israel, his Holy One, to the soul that is despised, to the nation that is abhorred..."

Unless, of course, you want to posit that the "abhorred nation" is the Catholic Church. Otherwise, it's clearly the Nation of Israel. This is blatantly obvious. Read the chapter. It's talking about God's remembering Israel in its afflictions; gathering them back to the land; and glorifying them. That's what the whole chapter is about: 

"Behold these shall come from afar, and behold these from the north and from the sea, and these from the south country. Give praise, O ye heavens, and rejoice, O earth, ye mountains, give praise with jubilation: because the Lord hath comforted his people, and will have mercy on his poor ones. And Sion said: The Lord hath forsaken me, and the Lord hath forgotten me. Can a woman forget her infant, so as not to have pity on the son of her womb? and if she should forget, yet will not I forget thee." (Is. 49:12-15)

This verse: "And they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and carry thy daughters upon their shoulders..." has absolutely NOTHING to do with Syrian customs of carrying children. That is so doggone stupid I can't even believe someone said it. And you swallowed it! 

And this verse: "kings shall be thy nursing fathers..." refers to the Persian kings' favoring the captives? You've lost your mind. This interpretation is equally as lame as the previous one. And what about the verses regarding the Gentiles' worshiping Israel with their heads to the ground? Maybe this refers to the Greeks' practice of using the bathroom while standing on their head? Come to your senses, man. This is NOT Biblical interpretation. It's sophomoric idiocy. Protestants aren't even this bad. At least Protestants' interpretations have some relevance to the context - or at least the passage in question. 

This is what's going on with these ridiculous interpretations: Ever since the time of Constantine, and his misplaced hatred for anything that smacked of "Jєωιѕнness", the Church's theologians have tried emphatically to downplay any references to God's favoring of Israel. At all cost, they try and persuade Catholics that Israel is forevermore condemned by God and will never again be reinstated as His Firstborn. And this is exactly the puke you spew: Israel killed their Messiah, and therefore they will never again attain any favor in God's eyes. Baloney. Read the prophets. Yes, they committed the most heinous act conceivable, but God has never completely forgotten them. Throughout the writings of the ancient prophets, He promises over and over and over and over again that He will ultimately have mercy on them, convert them, and bring them back to the land He promised them - not for their sake, but for the sake of His Holy Name:

"And I have regarded my own holy name, which the house of Israel hath profaned among the nations to which they went in. Therefore thou shalt say to the house of Israel: Thus saith the Lord God: It is not for your sake that I will do this, O house of Israel, but for my holy name's sake...And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the Gentiles, which you have profaned in the midst of them: that the Gentiles may know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord of hosts, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. For I will take you from among the Gentiles, and will gather you together out of all the countries, and will bring you into your own land." (Ez. 36:21-24) 

Again, God will bring Israel back to their land NOT for their sake, but for His Holy Name's sake. And so, what these verses mentioned above ("kings shall be thy nursing fathers, etc.") are talking about, in a poetic and metaphorical sense, is the way in which God is going to favor His Firstborn. He will not only convert them, and bring them back to the land of Israel, but He will carry them back in the arms of the Gentiles. And not only this, but He will glorify them among the Gentile nations - so much so that the whole world will know that God favors His Firstborn:

"Behold I will cut off all that have afflicted thee at that time: and I will save her that halteth, and will gather her that was cast out: and I will get them praise, and a name, in all the land where they had been put to confusion. At that time, when I will bring you: and at the time that I will gather you: for I will give you a name, and praise among all the people of the earth, when I shall have brought back your captivity before your eyes, saith the Lord." (Zeph. 3:19-20)


And regarding the future return of Israel to the actual physical Land of Israel, the Scriptures are crystal clear about this. Your statement that:
"I know Christ will return and take His seat in Jerusalem, but that doesn't mean there are physical descendants of David that will dwell with Him there." is both logically absurd, and Scripturally incorrect. Below are just some of the verses that speak of the physical descendants of Israel returning to the physical Land of Israel:

"And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand the second time to possess the remnant of his people, which shall be left from the Assyrians, and from Egypt, and from Phetros, and from Ethiopia, and from Elam, and from Sennaar, and from Emath, and from the islands of the sea. And he shall set up a standard unto the nations, and shall assemble the fugitives of Israel, and shall gather together the dispersed of Juda from the four quarters of the earth. And the envy of Ephraim shall be taken away, and the enemies of Juda shall perish: Ephraim shall not envy Juda, and Juda shall not fight against Ephraim..  And there shall be a highway for the remnant of my people, which shall be left from the Assyrians: as there was for Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt." (Is. 11:11-13,16)    

"For a, small moment have I forsaken thee, but with great mercies will I gather thee. In a moment of indignation have I hid my face a little while from thee, but with everlasting kindness have I had mercy on thee, said the Lord thy Redeemer." (Is. 54:7-8 ) 

"And the Gentiles shall see thy just one, and all kings thy glorious one: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name. And thou shalt be a crown of glory in the hand of the Lord, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God. Thou shalt no more be called Forsaken: and thy land shall no more be called Desolate: but thou shalt be called My pleasure in her, and thy land inhabited. Because the Lord hath been well pleased with thee: and thy land shall be inhabited." (Is. 62:2-4) 

"Fear not, for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west." (Is. 43:5)

"Therefore thus saith the Lord God: Because I have removed them far off among the Gentiles, and because I have scattered them among the countries: I will be to them a little sanctuary in the countries whither they are come. Therefore speak to them: Thus saith the Lord God: I will gather you from among the peoples, and assemble you out of the countries wherein you are scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel." (Ez. 11:16-17)

"In my holy mountain, in the high mountain of Israel, saith the Lord God, there shall all the house of Israel serve me; all of them I say, in the land in which they shall please me, and there will I require your firstfruits, and the chief of your tithes with all your sanctifications. I will accept of you for an odour of sweetness, when I shall have brought you out from the people, and shall have gathered you out of the lands into which you are scattered, and I will be sanctified in you in the sight of the nations. And you shall know that I am the Lord, when I shall have brought you into the land of Israel, into the land for which I lifted up my hand to give it to your fathers. And there you shall remember your ways, and all your wicked doings with which you have been defiled; and you shall be displeased with yourselves in your own sight, for all your wicked deeds which you committed. And you shall know that I am the Lord, when I shall have done well by you for my own name's sake, and not according to your evil ways, nor according to your wicked deeds, O house of Israel, saith the Lord God." (Ez. 20:40-44)

"Thus saith the Lord God: When I shall have gathered together the house of Israel out of the people among whom they are scattered: I will be sanctified in them before the Gentiles: and they shall dwell in their own land, which I gave to my servant Jacob. And they shall dwell therein secure, and they shall build houses, and shall plant vineyards, and shall dwell with confidence, when I shall have executed judgments upon all that are their enemies round about: and they shall know that I am the Lord their God." (Ez. 28:25-26)

"...so will I visit my sheep, and will deliver them out of all the places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day. And I will bring them out from the peoples, and will gather them out of the countries, and will bring them to their own land: and I will feed them in the mountains of Israel, by the rivers, and in all the habitations of the land. I will feed them in the most fruitful pastures, and their pastures shall be in the high mountains of Israel: there shall they rest on the green grass, and be fed in fat pastures upon the mountains of Israel." (Ez. 34:12-14)

"And I have regarded my own holy name, which the house of Israel hath profaned among the nations to which they went in. Therefore thou shalt say to the house of Israel: Thus saith the Lord God: It is not for your sake that I will do this, O house of Israel, but for my holy name's sake, which you have profaned among the nations whither you went. And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the Gentiles, which you have profaned in the midst of them: that the Gentiles may know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord of hosts, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. For I will take you from among the Gentiles, and will gather you together out of all the countries, and will bring you into your own land. And I will pour upon you clean water, and you shall be cleansed from all your filthiness, and I will cleanse you from all your idols." (Ez. 36:21-25)

"And thou shalt say to them: Thus saith the Lord God: Behold, I will take the children of Israel from the midst of the nations whither they are gone: and I will gather them on every side, and will bring them to their own land. And I will make them one nation in the land on the mountains of Israel, and one king shall be king over them all: and they shall no more be two nations, neither shall they be divided any more into two kingdoms." (Ez. 37:21-22)     

"And they shall bear their confusion, and all the transgressions wherewith they have transgressed against me, when they shall dwell in their land securely fearing no man: And I shall have brought them back from among the nations, and shall have gathered them together out of the lands of their enemies, and shall be sanctified in them, in the sight of many nations. And they shall know that I am the Lord their God, because I caused them to be carried away among the nations; and I have gathered them together unto their own land, and have not left any of them there. And I will hide my face no more from them, for I have poured out my spirit upon all the house of Israel, saith the Lord God." (Ez. 39:26-29)     

"For behold the days come, saith the Lord, and I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Juda, saith the Lord: and I will cause them to return to the land which I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it." (Jer. 30:3)

"Behold I will bring them from the north country, and will gather them from the ends of the earth: and among them shall be the blind, and the lame, the woman with child, and she that is bringing forth, together, a great company of them returning hither. They shall come with weeping: and I will bring them back in mercy: and I will bring them through the torrents of waters in a right way, and they shall not stumble in it: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn. Hear the word of the Lord, O ye nations, and declare it in the islands that are afar off, and say: He that scattered Israel will gather him: and he will keep him as the shepherd doth his flock." (Jer. 31:8-10)

"In that day I will raise up the tabernacle of David, that is fallen: and I will close up the breaches of the walls thereof, and repair what was fallen: and I will rebuild it as in the days of old. And I will bring back the captivity of my people Israel: and they shall build the abandoned cities, and inhabit them: and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine of them: and shall make gardens, and eat the fruits of them. And I will plant them upon their own land: and I will no more pluck them out of their land which I have given them, saith the Lord thy God." (Amos 9:11,14)

"I will assemble and gather together all of thee, O Jacob: I will bring together the remnant of Israel, I will put them together as a flock in the fold, as the sheep in the midst of the sheepcotes..." (Micah 2:12)

"And I will bring them back out of the land of Egypt, and will gather them from among the Assyrians: and will bring them to the land of Galaad, and Libanus, and place shall not be found for them." (Zach. 10:10)

And the quotes go on and on and on...
So much for your position that the physical descendants of Israel are not the ones who will be gathered back to the Land of Israel. Again, you may be able to quote Scripture, but you have no idea what it means (no doubt due to your reliance on absurdly ridiculous biblical commentaries). 

And what about your statement that the 1000 years doesn't actually mean 1000 years:
"The Catholic view is that the world is currently living in the Millennial age. "1,000 years" is not necessarily literal in meaning, but only figurative to denote a very long age." 

One thousand years doesn't actually mean one-thousand years. Of course. That makes perfect sense. Where was my head? That means, according to Scripture, Satan has been chained up for "a very long age"? Amazing. When did that start? When was Satan chained up Croix de Fer? Perhaps never. Perhaps when the Apocalypse prophesied that Satan would be chained for 1000 years, it actually meant he wouldn't be chained at all... Now I get it. Now I'm beginning to understand how to interpret Scripture. Thanks. And perhaps St. Jerome (quoted by Benedict XV) didn't actually mean we should look to the literal meaning of Scripture first - and then move according to that meaning to the spiritual. No, we should just jump right into the spiritual. Toss the literal meaning in the garbage. Right. That's NOT how scholarly interpretation of Scripture works, Croix de Fer. This is not the Catholic method of interpretation. A Catholic looks at the verse, takes note of the literal sense, and then FROM THAT LITERAL SENSE moves to a spiritual sense. He doesn't just toss the literal sense in the garbage. Nor is your stupid interpretation based upon anything Scriptural at all. Tell us, when and where has Scripture ever referred to 1000 years as "a very long age"? Where? Tell us. Where does this interpretation come from? I'll tell you where... Nowhere. There's absolutely NO POSSIBLE WAY to arrive at your ridiculous interpretation by using Scripture. Nor can we arrive there via any historical records - neither secular, nor religious. In short, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to imagine that 1000 years means anything but what it says. And you are totally naive for swallowing this puke. And all the more Scripturally ignorant because of it.

And what is this comment of yours supposed to mean:
"After the Diaspora, the ѕуηαgσgυє lost their biological lineage to David". 

The Jews lost their BIOLOGICAL lineage to David? And you claim to be knowledgeable of the Old Testament? Since when has the term "Jew" EVER referred to those of the Davidic line? Are you implying that all "Jews" are of the Davidic line? Of course you are. You just said it. No doubt you'll deny being so incredibly ignorant of Scripture, but the truth is.... you said it. Again, you don't know what a "Jew" is. You've misapplied the term numerous times in this thread. This is not the first. Here you go again:

"To my knowledge, only Roman Jews, today, are descended from early Hebrews who predate Jesus Christ. These same early Hebrews migrated to Rome before Jesus Christ was born. They, supposedly, never engaged in miscegenation with Romans/Italians up to this very day. They were always protected by Roman rule, even through Mussolini's reign. For some reason, even Mussolini made an effort to protect them. If it's true that they are racially unmixed and undiluted, they are the only Jews who have Davidian blood. They're still the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan because they reject Jesus Christ, therefore they are not real Jews in the spiritual sense, but to answer your question, they could be the only blood descendants whom are possibly referenced by Romans 11. 

Really? Let's look at Romans 11 again (verse 25):
"For I would not have you ignorant, brethren, of this mystery, (lest you should be wise in your own conceits), that blindness in part has happened in Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles should come in."

So what you're saying, Croix de Fer, is that St. Paul's "Israel" might possibly refer to the untainted Roman Jews? In other words, the term "Israel" is synonymous with the term "Jew"? And even worse: "only the racially untainted can truly be said to be of the Dividic line". You said it, not me. Hey Croix de Fer, I've said it before, and I'll say it again: You don't understand the meaning of "Jew". One last time: The term "Jew" simply denotes an Israelite who lives in the southern Kingdom of Judah. That's what it means. Yes, David's hereditary line was "Jєωιѕн". But to imply that the term "Jew" necessarily denotes one of the Davidic line, as you did above; or that only the pure, untainted Jews in Rome are for that very reason of "Davidian blood"; or that "Jew" means the same thing as "Israel", only manifests your gross ignorance of the topic at hand. And in the end, this ignorance necessarily renders you incapable of grasping the meaning of prophecy as it applies to the future of either Israel or the Jews.  

Ergo, it's a complete waste of time to discuss anything further with you on this topic. I can only hope that those who read this post will not fall into the same gross errors as you.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Croix de Fer on March 01, 2018, 07:59:37 PM

Quote from: sedevacantist on March 01, 2018, 07:10:54 PM

You're not understanding the point. The point is that the converted Israelites are favored above the converted Gentile. That's what the verse means. It has nothing to do with the process of salvation:

You're not wanting to hear the true point, which is, just as God doesn't base a person's salvation on their race, He doesn't render blessings and favoritism based on their race strictly because of race. He will bless races more for having the disposition to hear and live His Word, which is what He did to the white European race, hence our higher civilization in all human history. The Jews have proven themselves to be OPPOSITE by their continued breaking of covenants and their sin of Deicide.

You're not even Catholic. You stink like a Zionist Protestant or crypto-Jew.

The rest of what you wrote is more distortions of the meaning of Scripture and more drivel.

You haven't even provided one iota of sound reasoning as to who is a "true biological Israelite" in this present day. You haven't even tried to identify who they are...

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Cantarella on March 03, 2018, 11:40:50 AM

Quote from: sedevacantist on March 01, 2018, 07:10:54 PM

You're not understanding the point. The point is that the converted Israelites are favored above the converted Gentile. That's what the verse means. It has nothing to do with the process of salvation:

I have no doubts about the future conversion of the Jєωιѕн Nation, which although not a declared dogma of the Faith, has been a common teaching of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church (including St. Ambrose, St. Tertullian, St. Augustine, St. Cyril of Alexandria, St. Jerome, among many others) based upon scriptural verses. Where I have a doubt is where are these "true" Israelites (physical descendants) found in present day. Where is this Jєωιѕн nation that is to enter the Church? who are they? The mass conversion is supposed to be a sign of the imminent approach of the General Judgment. Father Denis Fahey explains this in his book The Kingship of Christ and the Conversion of the Jєωιѕн Nation (http://store.catholicism.org/the-kingship-of-christ-and-the-conversion-of-the-Jєωιѕн-nation.html).

St. Cyril of Alexandria quote:

Quote

“Towards the end of time, Our Lord Jesus Christ will effect the reconciliation of His former persecutor Israel with Himself. Everybody who knows Holy Scripture is aware that, in the course of time, this people will return to the love of Christ by the submission of faith…. Yes, one day, after the conversion of the Gentiles, Israel will be converted, and the Jews will be astonished at the treasure they will find in Christ”

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: sedevacantist on March 03, 2018, 01:55:31 PM

Quote from: Cantarella on March 03, 2018, 11:40:50 AM

I have no doubts about the future conversion of the Jєωιѕн Nation, which although not a declared dogma of the Faith, has been a common teaching of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church (including St. Ambrose, St. Tertullian, St. Augustine, St. Cyril of Alexandria, St. Jerome, among many others) based upon scriptural verses. Where I have a doubt is where are these "true" Israelites (physical descendants) found in present day. Where is this Jєωιѕн nation that is to enter the Church? who are they?

We need to first understand that the word "Jew" does not equate with "Israel". Everyone seems to confuse this point.
All (true) Jews are Israelites, but not all Israelites are Jews. The Jews only comprise a fraction of "Israel" - and a small fraction at that. 

The term "Jew" was used specifically to refer to those Israelites who lived in the southern Kingdom of Judah. I've covered this point in other posts on this very thread. Please look over it. I've been repeatedly trying to explain this very point to Croix de Fer. 

Anyway, aside from the (true) Jews who have tried to keep their lineage intact, there are a few pockets around the world that can vaguely trace their heritage to Israel. The Pashtun in Afghanistan, for example, are considered to be direct descendants of some of the Lost Ten Tribes - though I think it would be futile to look for "untainted" blood among them. Frankly, I think it would be futile to look for untainted blood anywhere. Ten whole tribes were carried off by the Assyrians. And many who were taken captive to Babylon never returned to Jerusalem. Moreover, most Israelites who were not taken captive by the Babylonians fled to Egypt. This means there are a lot of missing Israelites - and a lot of intermingling. 

If I had to guess as to their whereabouts, though, I would say that most of the Lost Tribes are among the middle eastern peoples of today. Keep in mind, human beings are not generally prone to migrating - particularly long distances. Humans generally remain in the same region all their lives. We have families, relatives, friends, homes, land, jobs, etc. Sure, there are some who get wild hairs and drop everything for a "better life" somewhere else. But for the most part, humans stay where they are. Ergo, I believe we can be reasonably sure that the majority of the "Lost Tribes of Israel" are somewhere in the middle east - Iran, Irag, Afghanistan, Jordan, etc. And yes, that means most of them are Muslims. In fact, those who are cognizant of their relationship to the Lost Tribes are convinced that Muhammad was the "Prophet" promised to Israel. This hereditary relationship with the ancient Israelites is also where the Muslims' rabid, monotheistic "convert or die" mentality comes from - as well as their warlike nature. They are truly a unique breed of men. And this, because many of them are Israelites.

This also means that we are going to witness a large-scale conversion of Muslims to (true) Catholicism in the near future. Indeed, a number of them are having apparent "visions" of Christ and converting to Protestantism as we speak. It's not any great number yet, but it's starting to happen. So they're getting close. You can find some of their testimonies on the internet. 

All this to say, in general, there's no positive means of identifying who is and who isn't a descendant of Israel. Some pockets can trace their lineage; but for the most part, this is a question for God. He knows who and where they are. And He's going to call them on a grand scale. However, I wouldn't exactly rely on this conversion event as "The Sign" that will signal the approach of the end. How many in the Traditional Movement, for example, equate today's situation with the "End of the Gentile Church" prophesied by St. Paul? Due to it's slow evolution, it's not so readily apparent unless one stands back and really looks. In the same way, I don't think the conversion event will happen "all at once". And so I wouldn't exactly rely on this event as "a sign". Instead, the event we need to be looking for is the preaching of the Two Witnesses. That's why God is sending them... 

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Student of Qi on March 03, 2018, 03:04:25 PM

I think it is interesting thatk you mention that the Muslims will convert. They actually alfeady are in the process. There are mass conversions of young Muslims in Turkey to the Russian Orthodox Church. You can even find videos and testimony of this on youtube.
(To be honest, even a massive number of N.O. clerics are going Orthodox, and the people with them)
  I've read quotes from St. Padre Pio that "the East will teach the West a lesson in Religion"... terrifying.


https://youtu.be/zh3j0Yi2wUA

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Croix de Fer on March 03, 2018, 03:11:16 PM

Quote from: Cantarella on March 03, 2018, 11:40:50 AM

I have no doubts about the future conversion of the Jєωιѕн Nation [...] The mass conversion is supposed to be a sign of the imminent approach of the General Judgment. Father Denis Fahey explains this in his book The Kingship of Christ and the Conversion of the Jєωιѕн Nation (http://store.catholicism.org/the-kingship-of-christ-and-the-conversion-of-the-Jєωιѕн-nation.html).

Again, "mass" is relative term. In this case, "mass conversion" means a sizable minority, at best. It's Biblical canon in Zacharias 13:8-9 that two-thirds of Jews around the world, and that might include the Antichrist state of "Israel" founded in 1948 by the UN, will be exterminated as punishment by God, and the other Jews will convert to the Catholic Faith.

Quote

Hebevacantist says:
We need to first understand that the word "Jew" does not equate with "Israel". Everyone seems to confuse this point.
All (true) Jews are Israelites, but not all Israelites are Jews.

You didn't answer Cantarella's question. Instead, you used another fluffy red herring.

You haven't told us who exactly, today, are the so-called biological descendants of the early Jews and Israelites.

I, on the other hand, am the only person to mention the fact of today's Roman Jews being racially undiluted and unmixed as they are descendants of the Jews who migrated to Rome before Jesus Christ was born, and they have remained there since this time and they've, supposedly, stuck to themselves.

Also, when I said the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan, today, has no biological lineage to David, I'm not saying all Jews in his time were related to him. It's a point that they were all racially the same as him. David, after Jesus Christ and Blessed Mary, is arguably the most important Jew in the history of true Jews. He is, in a sense, the "archetype" of all Jews. So when the ѕуηαgσgυє says they are Jews, they're saying they are racially the same as David, and they hold the Faith of Abraham. Both of these claims is a lie (except for maybe the racial part regarding Roman Jews as for the aforementioned reasons). Even more, this claim that they are Jews is a lie because they have ruptured themselves from the Faith of Abraham by rejecting Jesus Christ.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: sedevacantist on March 03, 2018, 03:29:36 PM

Quote from: Student of Qi on March 03, 2018, 03:04:25 PM

I think it is interesting thatk you mention that the Muslims will convert. They actually alfeady are in the process. There are mass conversions of young Muslims in Turkey to the Russian Orthodox Church. You can even find videos and testimony of this on youtube.

It should also be noted that, at present, the threat of persecution and even death for converting to "Christianity" looms over the Muslims' head. This threat prevents more conversions - particularly in countries like Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan. And even where the country does not sanction the death penalty for conversion, one could still be killed by individual fanatics. This happens occasionally.

However, when the time comes for the conversions to begin on a larger scale, the martyrdom of converts will fuel more and more conversions - just as Christianity saw in the early centuries of Roman persecution.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: res ipsa loquitur on March 09, 2018, 06:13:18 AM

Quote from: PG on February 28, 2018, 03:58:13 PM

Pax vobis - they say the same thing about vatican 2.  There is nothing in it that is explicitly "anti catholic".  But, the council is none the less bad and must be rejected.  I have read all of de montforts writings, and I will say the same thing about his book true devotion.

It is simple, there is no escaping the fact that louis de montfort  believed and taught that a queen has the right to not only own slaves as a result of her dignity(implying apart from any crimes on the part of the slaves), but that she has a right to put to death(murder) such slaves as her pleasure sees fit(apart from any judgment of the church).  He not only promoted such a right, but he suggested the duty of.  I mean he started a religious order to further the cause.    

And, I don't believe that these popes many quote who supported him actually knew what he taught, similar to how the majority of bishops did not know what vatican 2 taught.  They simply see their catch phrase buzz word(s) that they associate with "the way", and put their stamp of approval on it.  

Fortunately for me I do not have to explain this in theory.  It is in front of us all to see.  The CMRI do the total consecration.  They are the worst of the sedevacantists.  They have dubious orders that they sit proud and play ignorant of, while at the same time they usurp authority over a church they proudly judge entirely invalid outside of themselves.  They are lamentable.  Their total consecration has not protected them in this sense.  Their marian devotion has not preserved them.

The feeneyites are the next example.  They are, many if not all, doing the montfortian total consecration.  But, that has not preserved them.  They mirror the cmri in different substance yet similar lamentable style.  

You will find this wherever total consecration is being performed.  If you do not want to judge louis de montfort by his own fruit.  Judge him by the fruit of his followers.  I will not dine with louis de montfort, and neither will I dance with him.  

Your confusion might be due to a cultural misunderstanding.  St. Louis Marie de Montfort lived in a different era, when monarchy was still in place.  He did not invent slavery, he only used it as an analogy, an example that the people he was preaching to would clearly understand.  

In Christ's time, there were kings and slaves.  He did not teach people to rebel against the earthly king or the emperor.  
If we simply accept that there were kings and slaves in human history, and simply read St. Louis de Montfort as only using the actual situation of slaves as an example of how, if we freely surrender our will, we also become slaves, then the confusion will disappear.  

St. Louis de Montfort did not invent the surrendering of our Will to God.  Our Lord Jesus Christ Himself who taught us to pray "...Thy Kingdom come, Thy Will be done..."

God as our King expects from us more than what earthly kings can demand:  ADORATION.  He wants us obey His Commands and to love Him above all.  It is not wrong to give back to God all that He has given to us, and to acknowledge that we are nothing before Him; then, in our nothingness, to offer to Him our will -- effectively becoming slaves, but voluntarily - because free will should be surrendered freely, otherwise, it is not free will that is being offered.  

God does not force us to surrender our will to His but if we do, we will only be echoing the FIAT of Our Lady.  

In the Jєωιѕн custom, in Christ's time, the mother of the King was considered the Queen. So if we really mean to pray that "His Kingdom come" (at Pater Noster), then we really should know that we are also asking that Mary (His Mother) be Our Queen.  But we should not be afraid to have her as Queen. Her Fiat should be our assurance that she will not lead us astray.  She has surrendered her will fully to God and all she has is His.  If you give yourself and your merits to Her, she will not own you, she will simply give you and your merits to God.  And God will find her offering pleasing, because She has found favor with Him (St. Gabriel the Archangel said that).  

The slavery to Our Lady is not diabolical because it is in fact slavery to Our Lord Jesus Christ through Mary:  "...O admirable Mother, present me to your dear Son as His slave now and for always, so that He who redeemed me through you will now receive me through you."  

You fear that making Mary our Queen is giving her the the power to kill.  
" 5 (http://biblehub.com/luke/12-5.htm)But I will shew you whom you shall fear: fear ye him, who after he hath killed, hath power to cast into hell. Yea, I say to you, fear him. 6 (http://biblehub.com/luke/12-6.htm)Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God? 7 (http://biblehub.com/luke/12-7.htm)Yea, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. (Luke 12:5)

The absolute power of God is hard for our liberal spirit to accept.  But if we meditate on Judgment Day, we can understand His power.  And reflecting on His omnipotence, we can imagine the power of the Queen. But there is no reason to be afraid of her because she describes herself simply as "the handmaid of the Lord."   

I pray for you that you may appreciate the role of Our Lady in our salvation, and be among her humble slaves, for She will defeat the Dragon by her humility.  Satan is angry against her and her followers (slaves)-- Revelations 12:17.  Satan is waging war against you.  May the Immaculate Heart of Mary be your refuge.

Nos cuм prole pia benedicat Virgo Maria.  Pax Christi tecuм, PG!

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Ladislaus on March 09, 2018, 08:21:57 AM

But Monarch's did have the right of life or death over their subjects ... as they could send them to war on behalf of a just cause.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Ladislaus on March 09, 2018, 08:23:14 AM

Quote from: Student of Qi on March 03, 2018, 03:04:25 PM

I think it is interesting thatk you mention that the Muslims will convert. They actually alfeady are in the process. There are mass conversions of young Muslims in Turkey to the Russian Orthodox Church. 

Uhm, that's not conversion.  Perhaps a step in the right direction, but still outside the Church.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Last Tradhican on March 09, 2018, 10:17:56 AM

Quote from: Ladislaus on March 09, 2018, 08:23:14 AM

Uhm, that's not conversion.  Perhaps a step in the right direction, but still outside the Church.

The world will allow you to practice any false religion including the Vatican II Novus Ordo false religion. The only Religion not permitted is Catholicism. For the world, religion is like a race where you are allowed to use any part of your body except your legs. Your legs are Catholicism. The Vatican II counterfeit catholic church is just another false religion.

The Vatican II religion, Eastern Orthodox church, Anglicans, Lutherans, Mohamedans, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, ALL the same dung in different packaging.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: res ipsa loquitur on March 09, 2018, 03:47:39 PM

Quote from: Ladislaus on March 09, 2018, 08:21:57 AM

But Monarch's did have the right of life or death over their subjects ... as they could send them to war on behalf of a just cause.

You're right. And Queen Esther, who had found favor with the king, did influence the death of Haman.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: PG on March 09, 2018, 04:25:39 PM

Quote from: res ipsa loquitur on March 09, 2018, 03:47:39 PM

You're right. And Queen Esther, who had found favor with the king, did influence the death of Haman.

Indistinguishable from modernism, your(and ladislaus) morality is subject to the times.  However, that is false morality.  Morality is determined by Christ's objective eternity.

 

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: res ipsa loquitur on March 09, 2018, 05:31:46 PM

Quote from: PG on March 09, 2018, 04:25:39 PM

Indistinguishable from modernism, your(and ladislaus) morality is subject to the times.  However, that is false morality.  Morality is determined by Christ's objective eternity.

 

Christ did not intervene when King Herod, using his earthly power, ordered the death of John the Baptist. Christ, a descendant of David and heir to the throne, Whom the children of Israel wanted to make King, did not take away the earthly kingdom from Herod even though Herod made use of his earthly power immorally.  Point is, whether or not the earthly king or queen were immoral, God, Who is the source of all authority, allows them to exercise power according to their judgments (subject to reward or punishment on Judgment Day).  So, if the king wishes to share his power with the queen, it is really possible for the queen to order the death of a person and for the king's subjects to carry out the order.  

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: res ipsa loquitur on March 09, 2018, 05:39:54 PM

The encyclical "Libertas Praestantissimum" written by Pope Leo XIII would help to put things into proper perspective.  A priest had to explain it to me before I could understand how the All-Powerful God can give Authority to a feeble human being and expect the society to accept and respect that Authority. 

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: res ipsa loquitur on March 09, 2018, 06:28:01 PM

The power of earthly kings, governors and emperors can be understood rightly from the exchange between Pilate and Our Lord Jesus Christ:

10 Pilate therefore saith to him: Speakest thou not to me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and I have power to release thee?
11 Jesus answered: Thou shouldst not have any power against me, unless it were given thee from above.  (Gospel according to St. John, chapter 19)

If we can understand how Christ willingly subjected Himself to the injustice of men, we can slowly reflect how we ought to imitate Him in respecting human authority.  Obeying and imitating Christ, the early Christians boldly accepted persecutions and martyrdom in the hands of immoral rulers.
  
Our Lady, as Queen of heaven and earth, really has power but she is humble and simple and desires only the Will of God.  God does not desire the death of a sinner and demonstrates this by accepting the cruel death on the Cross to save sinners but on Judgment Day, He will order those who disobey Him to be thrown into everlasting fires.  Our Lady will not use her power to condemn us but to plead for us before Her Son and because She has found favor with Him, He will accept Her prayers for us, unworthy sinners. If today we make ourselves a slave of Her who desires only His Will, The King will pity us and give us graces to persevere.  On Judgment Day, She who desires only the Will of God, will not at all intervene when He condemns the demons and bad-willed people to hell.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Ladislaus on March 09, 2018, 07:49:45 PM

Quote from: PG on March 09, 2018, 04:25:39 PM

Indistinguishable from modernism, your(and ladislaus) morality is subject to the times.  However, that is false morality.  Morality is determined by Christ's objective eternity.

 

.
.. as interpreted by you.

Yet the Catholic Church has always taught the permissibility of capital punishment.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: res ipsa loquitur on March 09, 2018, 07:57:42 PM

Quote from: Ladislaus on March 09, 2018, 07:49:45 PM

.
.. as interpreted by you.

Yet the Catholic Church has always taught the permissibility of capital punishment.

True.  Many are confused about capital punishment.  They think it is against the Mercy of God.  But Christ accepted the most cruel capital punishment and saved the thief beside him who accepted that he deserved the capital punishment and pitied Christ Who was being punished for sins He did not commit.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Ladislaus on March 09, 2018, 08:06:34 PM

Quote from: res ipsa loquitur on March 09, 2018, 07:57:42 PM

True.  Many are confused about capital punishment.  They think it is against the Mercy of God.  But Christ accepted the most cruel capital punishment and saved the thief beside him who accepted that he deserved the capital punishment and pitied Christ Who was being punished for sins He did not commit.

Indeed, God considered it a virtue on the part of Abraham to be on the ready to sacrifice his son to him ... and rewarded him for this.  There's no absolute "right to life" independent of God.  What God gives, God can take away.  And God has delegated this authority to Our Lady ... and even to secular authorities under certain conditions.

Title: Re: The secret hidden within Marian Consecration
Post by: Cantarella on March 10, 2018, 01:26:12 AM

Quote from: res ipsa loquitur on March 09, 2018, 05:39:54 PM

The encyclical "Libertas Praestantissimum" written by Pope Leo XIII would help to put things into proper perspective.  A priest had to explain it to me before I could understand how the All-Powerful God can give Authority to a feeble human being and expect the society to accept and respect that Authority.

Thank you for that reference.

Quote

Since, then, the profession of one religion is necessary in the State, that religion must be professed which alone is true, and which can be recognized without difficulty, especially in Catholic States, because the marks of truth are, as it were, engraven upon it. This religion, therefore, the rulers of the State must preserve and protect, if they would provide — as they should do — with prudence and usefulness for the good of the community. For public authority exists for the welfare of those whom it governs; and, although its proximate end is to lead men to the prosperity found in this life, yet, in so doing, it ought not to diminish, but rather to increase, man’s capability of attaining to the supreme good in which his everlasting happiness consists: which never can be attained if religion be disregarded.

"It is manifest that the eternal law of God is the sole standard and rule of human liberty, not only in each individual man, but also in the community and civil society which men constitute when united".



Compare this gem with the false principles of Vatican II Dignitatis Humanae.

Something has gone terribly wrong.