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Author Topic: The Charismatic Renewal is an Authentic Work of the Holy Spirit  (Read 9250 times)

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Offline Meg

The Charismatic Renewal is an Authentic Work of the Holy Spirit
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2015, 08:31:06 AM »
I think that JP2's support for charismaticism came from his ideology of personalism, where the individual has a personal and therefore subjective 'spiritual' experience.

I recall, when I attended the FSSP indult, that the priest once gave a talk on the charismatics. He said that Catholics are not supposed to ask for or seek out the 'extraordinary gifts' of the Holy Ghost, such as speaking in tongues. If these gifts are given to someone naturally, that's fine. But it isn't even required to be in a state of grace for one to receive these extraordinary gifts (which IMO is quite rare anyway, though the priest didn't say anything about this).

What the charismatics don't seem to get is that we are called upon to grow in holiness first of all, and that those extraordinary gifts (when they are legitimate) aren't meant to help with growing in holiness. And as has been mentioned already on this thread, a Catholic can open themselves up to demonic influences by this. FR. Chad Ripperger (FSSP) has said that he's had to say prayers of exorcism over at least two people who were involved to charismatic renewal.

It reminds me of the new-age movement, where people are also looking for 'spiritual experiences.' It doesn't mean that they are bad or evil - just very much misguided. Also, I think that for most of those folks who think that the Holy Ghost is working through them by speaking in tongues and prophecy, it isn't the Holy Ghost at all, but something subconscious instead.

The Charismatic Renewal is an Authentic Work of the Holy Spirit
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2015, 09:16:27 AM »
The SSPX article that Stubborn linked to had this paragraph:
Quote
Despite Charismatic attempts to make personal endorsements of high-ranking Church officials into official approbation by the Church, no such approbation exists. Popes Paul VI and John Paul II have received Charismatics many times in audience and spoken of them in their addresses on many occasions; in 1990, the Pontifical Council for the Laity recognized the Catholic Fraternity of Covenant Communities (an international Charismatic organization) as a private association of the laity;7  nonetheless, no official pronouncement has been made on the CCR. Charismatics, like all liberal Catholics, tend to ascribe "creeping infallibility" to unofficial papal pronouncements in their favor as much as they disregard authoritative condemnations of other liberal practices and beliefs.


This was written in 1998.  Is it still true that all the papal pronouncements about it have been unofficial and there is no official teaching? I would like more information about papal statements on this subject and their authority. Any suggestions as to where I can find this?

Reading this article was especially helpful for me to understand how shocking my statement was and why people are making such a big deal about it.  I now get why some have said it was ban-worthy.  I never understood this subject before.  Discussions I've seen on other trad forums about this just seemed to be pictures of how silly Charismatics look and posters laughing at them.  I have never before read a thorough explanation of the theological problems with it.  

Thank you all very much.



The Charismatic Renewal is an Authentic Work of the Holy Spirit
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2015, 09:27:56 AM »
Quote from: Jaynek
The SSPX article that Stubborn linked to had this paragraph:
Quote
Despite Charismatic attempts to make personal endorsements of high-ranking Church officials into official approbation by the Church, no such approbation exists. Popes Paul VI and John Paul II have received Charismatics many times in audience and spoken of them in their addresses on many occasions; in 1990, the Pontifical Council for the Laity recognized the Catholic Fraternity of Covenant Communities (an international Charismatic organization) as a private association of the laity;7  nonetheless, no official pronouncement has been made on the CCR. Charismatics, like all liberal Catholics, tend to ascribe "creeping infallibility" to unofficial papal pronouncements in their favor as much as they disregard authoritative condemnations of other liberal practices and beliefs.


This was written in 1998.  Is it still true that all the papal pronouncements about it have been unofficial and there is no official teaching? I would like more information about papal statements on this subject and their authority. Any suggestions as to where I can find this?

Reading this article was especially helpful for me to understand how shocking my statement was and why people are making such a big deal about it.  I now get why some have said it was ban-worthy.  I never understood this subject before.  Discussions I've seen on other trad forums about this just seemed to be pictures of how silly Charismatics look and posters laughing at them.  I have never before read a thorough explanation of the theological problems with it.  

Thank you all very much.



How about simply recognizing that the new-age and novel are not Catholic.  How about the prospect of tradition being left pure and undefiled.  The idea that everything is better mish-mashed and blended, and that nothing is better than the other, is very Jєωιѕн.

The Charismatic Renewal is an Authentic Work of the Holy Spirit
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2015, 09:30:30 AM »
From a source not condoned by this forum, therefore I will not include the link which would potentially advertise the site, nonetheless, a great analysis in the following quote:

Quote
God allows the Devil to take people over in these Charismatic services because by partaking in them people are essentially saying that the sacraments of the Catholic Church, the seven instituted by Jesus Christ, are not sufficient. They are professing, therefore, that they need a new set of man-made rites – rites which are outside the sacramental system – in order to really receive “the spirit.” By participation in such “rites,” they are essentially participating in a new religion in order to gain access to “the spirit” outside the means specifically set up by Christ. As a consequence, these Charismatic “rites” become new “sacraments” of a false religion which give access to the evil, not the Holy, spirit.

The Charismatic Renewal is an Authentic Work of the Holy Spirit
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2015, 10:07:22 AM »


The only Charismatics come to Tradition is when they truly understand the errors of the charismatic movement.   When they come to the Traditional Mass, they do it usually because they like all the variations associated with the charismatic movement, so they want to see something else.  They are sometimes turned off by the lack of active participation by the laity. At charismatic places they feel important and it makes them feel good to hop around and be happy.  Then they go to the Traditional Mass and are told about the sacrifice, the silence, and contrition.  The ones I know of that have converted to Tradition, already saw the problems with the charismatic movement before finding Tradition.  Tradition was the answer to the problem that they were already seeing.  If they see no problems with the charismatic movement, then they generally don't like the Traditional Mass because they see it as opposition to them.