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Author Topic: SSPX official position re: validity of new rite of episcopal consecrations  (Read 48457 times)

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Re: SSPX official position re: validity of new rite of episcopal consecrations
« Reply #35 on: January 03, 2019, 05:36:04 AM »
Good morning,

What do you think of the SSPX current official position re: the validity of new rite of episcopal consecrations? (See link to their article here: http://sspx.org/en/validity-new-rite-episcopal-consecrations).

In their article they state that due to the duration of time that has elapsed since the promulgation of the new rite, if the new rite were invalid per se then we would have been left without a Catholic hierarchy which would be a violation of Our Lord's promise "the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" (Mt 16:18 )

This particular argument seems reasonable to me. Generally speaking the article the SSPX published seems well thought through and reasonable to me--but I am not expert on this subject either. This is probably one of the first articles I have read on the subject other than a few EC's from Bp. Williamson on the subject.

Which raises another question. Do they four bishops (+Williamson, +Faure, +Aquino, +Zendejas) have a current position on this subject ("official" or unofficial)?

Thank you in advance for your comments. God bless!
If the SSPX recognizes the validity of the new rite then who am I to argue with them? 

Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: SSPX official position re: validity of new rite of episcopal consecrations
« Reply #36 on: January 03, 2019, 07:22:05 AM »
No one can say they are postively invalid or positively valid.  This is the issue - doubt.
Yes, doubt, is the reason we avoid NO priests, and it is the same reason why they cannot be *automatically* conditionally ordained.

If you were an SSPX bishop and a defecting NO priest wanted conditional ordination, you could not automatically do that without risking committing a serious mortal sin, that of sacrilege - for both you and the NO priest.

You would need to first investigate his prior ordination to see if indeed he has to be conditionally ordained. That's just the way it works, and it works like this even if the last 10,000 defecting NO priests in a row all had to be conditionally ordained, until the Church comes out and says the NO Orders are null and void after the manner of Pope Leo XIII, as he did with the Anglicans, their prior Ordinations must be investigated in an effort to determine whether or not they may be conditionally ordained.

Yes, since the NO took over, we all *must* doubt the validity of the NO clergy, but it's a whole nother story when it comes to conditionally ordaining them - before any conditional or re-ordinations can be done, that prior ordination must be investigated.  


Re: SSPX official position re: validity of new rite of episcopal consecrations
« Reply #37 on: January 03, 2019, 07:37:26 AM »
I re-read the SSPX article. 

When I got to the last page, I think if you read it carefully it basically is saying exactly what Pax Vobis is saying, but they have just tried to downplay the emphasis. 

Also, another question (more for curiosity sake) are priests/bishops of the Eastern Rites (i.e. Byzantine Catholic Church) valid per se? 

In an emergency (or even just to receive the sacraments more frequently) can one go to an Eastern Rite Church for the sacraments if an otherwise 100% certainly validly ordained Roman Rite clergymen is about a half-day's drive away? 

Also, I was reading the Catechism of the Council of Trent last night...I am not so sure the pope can be the Successor of Peter and not be a validly consecrated bishop. 

For whatever its worth, I agree this issue is a complete mess and is probably as important as the issues with the New Mass and the question re: the occupant of the Chair of Peter...yet not as many people really focus in on this question. More "mainstream" Catholics need to wake-up to the issues involved here. 

Thank you. God bless.

Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: SSPX official position re: validity of new rite of episcopal consecrations
« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2019, 07:40:18 AM »
Monsignor Byrnes is New Rite.  There is an old thread out there about him.  I will search for it and edit this post.

https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/major-change-in-ridgefield-new-principle-for-padre-pio-academy/msg455503/#msg455503
Here is the OP from your link:

Quote
Just received e-mail below from Msgr Byrnes.

Msgr Byrnes was ordained on November 15, 1986, by Cardinal O'Connor at Saint Patrick's Cathedral in New York City and has been in Ridgefield, CT, for approximately two years. Msgr. Byrnes has not been conditionally ordained since the SSPX has stated that Msgr's ordination was valid. I was personally told by two priests in Ridgefield that there is nothing to question as the SSPX's own investigation into the ordination confirmed that the matter, form, and intent were all valid and that I should not question this.

Why would the SSPX allow a Novus Order trained and ordained priest to be a principal?

I will still call and see if I can find out how they determined he did not need conditional ordination.

Re: SSPX official position re: validity of new rite of episcopal consecrations
« Reply #39 on: January 03, 2019, 07:50:10 AM »
Thank you Stubborn! 

Its the how part that I think we are all questioning. 

If they somehow have a method for investigating and verifying the validity of a particular Novus Ordo ordination--great, but it would really help put people's minds at ease if they could clearly explain the criteria for making that determination.