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Offline Seek the Truth

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  • Just received e-mail below from Msgr Byrnes.

    Msgr Byrnes was ordained on November 15, 1986, by Cardinal O'Connor at Saint Patrick's Cathedral in New York City and has been in Ridgefield, CT, for approximately two years. Msgr. Byrnes has not been conditionally ordained since the SSPX has stated that Msgr's ordination was valid. I was personally told by two priests in Ridgefield that there is nothing to question as the SSPX's own investigation into the ordination confirmed that the matter, form, and intent were all valid and that I should not question this.

    Why would the SSPX allow a Novus Order trained and ordained priest to be a principal?


    Dear Parents,

    Last Thursday I received a call from our District Superior Fr. Wegner, informing me that I am to be the principal of St. Padre Pio Academy beginning with the new school year.

    Fr. Sulzen has kept me in the loop about the desire for all of you to have a meeting with the principal regarding some concerns you have about the high school program for next year, and I know that there has been some difficulty in getting a meeting date because of vacation schedules and that the date currently set for the meeting is in July, a date later than most would prefer.

    Given everyone’s desire to meet as soon as possible, I am proposing having our meeting this Tuesday evening (9 June) at 7:30 PM in Jogues Hall. Please let me know as soon as possible if this will work for you. If the majority cannot make this day, we will stick with the date in July. I realize that this is rather short notice, but I hope this date will work for everyone, or at least most.
    I look forward to working with all of you during the coming school year.

    God bless,

    Msgr. Byrnes

    Offline Matto

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    Major change in Ridgefield New principle for Padre Pio Academy
    « Reply #1 on: June 07, 2015, 07:49:42 PM »
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  • I think it is insane that the SSPX does not conditionally ordain all Novus Ordo priests who come over to the SSPX. I know of people at my chapel (including me) who would walk out if this man came to say Mass there (which may very well happen because sometimes priests from Ridgefield say Mass at my chapel) because of doubts about his ordination. I would guess that this is common. I guess it is more important not to offend Rome than to reassure those many SSPX faithful who have doubts about Novus Ordo orders.

    I know that this man is traditional for a Novus Ordo priest but he is still a Novus Ordo priest. He should have to go to seminary for a few years so he could learn all the things they no longer teach in Novus Ordo seminaries and be trained to be a real priest and then conditionally ordained and then become principal.
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    Offline TKGS

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    Major change in Ridgefield New principle for Padre Pio Academy
    « Reply #2 on: June 07, 2015, 07:53:55 PM »
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  • John Joseph Cardinal O’Connor was consecrated as a bishop in the New Rite of Episcopal Consecration in 1979.

    I'm have no doubt that Msgr. Byrnes's ordination followed the requirements of matter and form.  I also have no doubt that Cardinal O'Connor even had the proper intention.

    The only problem is that he was not a validly consecrated bishop when he ordained Byrnes who remains a layman.  Does anyone really believe there is not already an agreement between the SSPX and the Conciliar church that just hasn't yet been publicized?

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Major change in Ridgefield New principle for Padre Pio Academy
    « Reply #3 on: June 07, 2015, 08:00:57 PM »
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  • He was a principal for many years at another school. Monsignor has experience and he is a Holy Catholic Priest as well.

    When I was on a retreat, he was one of our Priests.  All the priests, including Monsignor Byrnes did a great job with our retreat.  We really learned a lot about our Catholic faith.

    We need to pray for our Catholic priests.  Our prayers are with Monsignor Byrnes and the priests up in Ridgefield.  

    You are truly blessed by God to have a Catholic school, retreat house and Catholic Church.
    Most of us don't have that.  

    When you attend that meeting with Monsignor Byrnes, you should all be kind and charitable.
    You all should thank God for what you have.






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    Offline Centroamerica

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    Major change in Ridgefield New principle for Padre Pio Academy
    « Reply #4 on: June 07, 2015, 11:17:21 PM »
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  • This should not be presented as some new policy that shows evidence of a deal.

    We have plenty of priests who were allowed to offer Mass in SSPX chapels and ordained in the new rite. Fr. Hesse, Fr. Gruner, and Fr. Kramer are a few examples. The policy of investigating a pries's ordination and making a determination one way or another has been the SSPX's policy for decades.
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...


    Offline JPaul

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    Major change in Ridgefield New principle for Padre Pio Academy
    « Reply #5 on: June 08, 2015, 08:31:33 AM »
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  • One should be more concerned with the priests who have been coming out of Winona over the last ten years.

    Offline covet truth

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    Major change in Ridgefield New principle for Padre Pio Academy
    « Reply #6 on: June 08, 2015, 09:07:22 AM »
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  • Does the SSPX even do conditional ordinations anymore?  I'm not aware of any.  What if a N.O. priest requested it, would he receive it?  

    Offline Matthew

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    Major change in Ridgefield New principle for Padre Pio Academy
    « Reply #7 on: June 08, 2015, 12:10:02 PM »
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  • Quote from: Centroamerica


    This should not be presented as some new policy that shows evidence of a deal.

    We have plenty of priests who were allowed to offer Mass in SSPX chapels and ordained in the new rite. Fr. Hesse, Fr. Gruner, and Fr. Kramer are a few examples. The policy of investigating a pries's ordination and making a determination one way or another has been the SSPX's policy for decades.


    On the other hand, what is going on in Ridgefield IS revolutionary. There are real problems in Ridgefield, and the recent exodus from that chapel is proof of that. About 300 parishioners have left. Many teachers and students have quit the school. This priory was in such disarray that Bishop Fellay himself had to fly in and try to hold things together.

    But here's the interesting part -- they're not all leaving for the Resistance. About 1/3 of them went to the Indult -- another 1/3 went to the local Sedevacantist chapel. And 1/3 went to the Resistance, currently served by Fr. Zendejas.

    Of course, the SSPX firmly blames Fr. Zendejas, even though the problem is with Ridgefield.

    Regarding the defectors to the Indult, I can understand their logic. "So you want me to drive all the way to Ridgefield where I'll be hearing the Tridentine Mass of a Novus Ordo-ordained priest? I have an Indult (said by a Novus Ordo-trained and ordained priest) closer to me; I'll go to that one instead, but thank you kindly for your offer."
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    Offline hollingsworth

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    Major change in Ridgefield New principle for Padre Pio Academy
    « Reply #8 on: June 08, 2015, 03:55:55 PM »
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  • Matt:
    Quote
    On the other hand, what is going on in Ridgefield IS revolutionary. There are real problems in Ridgefield, and the recent exodus from that chapel is proof of that. About 300 parishioners have left. Many teachers and students have quit the school. This priory was in such disarray that Bishop Fellay himself had to fly in and try to hold things together.

    But here's the interesting part -- they're not all leaving for the Resistance. About 1/3 of them went to the Indult -- another 1/3 went to the local Sedevacantist chapel. And 1/3 went to the Resistance, currently served by Fr. Zendejas.


    Personally, I had no idea this was going on in Ridgefield.  But I don't think it is "revolutionary " in the classic definition of the word.  A revolution, in short, is defined as a "forcible overthrow of a government or social order in favor of a new system."  What's going on there seems more like 'anarchy,' than revolution.  Yes, they have thrown off the religious order of the sspx, but have not agreed in any way about what should replace it.  It is more like every man to his own tent. :facepalm:

    Offline Centroamerica

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    Major change in Ridgefield New principle for Padre Pio Academy
    « Reply #9 on: June 08, 2015, 07:48:29 PM »
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  • Quote from: hollingsworth
    Matt:
    Quote
    On the other hand, what is going on in Ridgefield IS revolutionary. There are real problems in Ridgefield, and the recent exodus from that chapel is proof of that. About 300 parishioners have left. Many teachers and students have quit the school. This priory was in such disarray that Bishop Fellay himself had to fly in and try to hold things together.

    But here's the interesting part -- they're not all leaving for the Resistance. About 1/3 of them went to the Indult -- another 1/3 went to the local Sedevacantist chapel. And 1/3 went to the Resistance, currently served by Fr. Zendejas.


    Personally, I had no idea this was going on in Ridgefield.  But I don't think it is "revolutionary " in the classic definition of the word.  A revolution, in short, is defined as a "forcible overthrow of a government or social order in favor of a new system."  What's going on there seems more like 'anarchy,' than revolution.  Yes, they have thrown off the religious order of the sspx, but have not agreed in any way about what should replace it.  It is more like every man to his own tent. :facepalm:



    Yeah, I had no idea about the situation there.  I was only making a point about the conditional ordinations.  As far as I know, that policy has not changed and has been the same.  The  only people who make a big deal about it are those who put the quotations around Father when they speak about Fr. Gruner or Fr. Kramer, who were probably the ones who put all the down thumbs on my comment staing the fact of the matter.
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...

    Offline Clemens Maria

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    « Reply #10 on: June 09, 2015, 02:10:53 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    But here's the interesting part -- they're not all leaving for the Resistance. About 1/3 of them went to the Indult -- another 1/3 went to the local Sedevacantist chapel. And 1/3 went to the Resistance, currently served by Fr. Zendejas.

    Of course, the SSPX firmly blames Fr. Zendejas, even though the problem is with Ridgefield.

    Regarding the defectors to the Indult, I can understand their logic. "So you want me to drive all the way to Ridgefield where I'll be hearing the Tridentine Mass of a Novus Ordo-ordained priest? I have an Indult (said by a Novus Ordo-trained and ordained priest) closer to me; I'll go to that one instead, but thank you kindly for your offer."


    Are you sure the Diocesan priest is NO-ordained?  There are still a lot of pre-NO priests around.  They are getting old but they are still here.  That might explain the people going to the Diocese.  But of course given that the SSPX accepts the theoretical validity of the Conciliar sacraments that would certainly work against any claim on the loyality of their followers as you have just pointed out.


    Offline Clemens Maria

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    « Reply #11 on: June 09, 2015, 02:21:14 PM »
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  • I would be curious to know why 1/3 went to the SV chapel.  I'm wondering if they could no longer stomach Francis.  That's what caused me to leave the SSPX chapel in Woburn, MA and start going to the CMRI chapel in the neighboring town.  They had that goofy photo of Francis over the entrance to the SSPX chapel and I felt like it was distracting me with bad thoughts.  I'm so happy not to have to say that I "recognize" that guy.  Francis does not speak with the voice of my Shepherd.  I don't know who that guy is but I know he is not my Shepherd.  And to be frank (ha!), he was not the shepherd of anyone at the SSPX chapel either.  They "recognized" him but they didn't follow him.  Thanks be to Our Lord and Our Lady!

    Offline hollingsworth

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    Major change in Ridgefield New principle for Padre Pio Academy
    « Reply #12 on: June 09, 2015, 03:41:47 PM »
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  • CM:
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    I don't know who that guy is but I know he is not my Shepherd. And to be frank (ha!), he was not the shepherd of anyone at the SSPX chapel either. They "recognized" him but they didn't follow him. Thanks be to Our Lord and Our Lady!


    This is the problem,of course.  CM is just one voice from among maybe 10s of thousands of traditional Catholics who say in essence:   'This guy is not my Shepherd.  We are told to "recognize" him, but he is not my shepherd.'
    The good bishop publishes numbers of ECs trying to prop up the "recognition" thesis, but sales are going down.  Then the 'I-told-you-so' sedes move in parroting their annoying shibboleths.  Folks get irritated and tell them to move off.  It is never ending.
    At least historically, so we are told, the popes of the Arian period were orthodox Catholics.  It was just most of the bishops and priests whom you had to avoid.  Now we have popes, bishops and priest alike who have gone off the reservation.  They're all rotten.

    Offline Marlelar

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    Major change in Ridgefield New principle for Padre Pio Academy
    « Reply #13 on: June 09, 2015, 11:13:41 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    On the other hand, what is going on in Ridgefield IS revolutionary. There are real problems in Ridgefield, and the recent exodus from that chapel is proof of that. About 300 parishioners have left. Many teachers and students have quit the school. This priory was in such disarray that Bishop Fellay himself had to fly in and try to hold things together.


    What is going on in Ridgefield?  Why is it in disarray?

    Offline Bartholemew

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    Major change in Ridgefield New principle for Padre Pio Academy
    « Reply #14 on: June 11, 2015, 09:42:13 AM »
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  • Quote from: Centroamerica


    This should not be presented as some new policy that shows evidence of a deal.

    We have plenty of priests who were allowed to offer Mass in SSPX chapels and ordained in the new rite. Fr. Hesse, Fr. Gruner, and Fr. Kramer are a few examples. The policy of investigating a pries's ordination and making a determination one way or another has been the SSPX's policy for decades.


    I remember when Father Voigt was up in Syracuse for many years. He was known to everyone in the northeast as the "bad Novus Ordo priest" and everyone went out of their way to never go to any of his Masses. When we asked the SSPX why he hasn't been conditionally ordained, their answer was that they looked into it and his ordination was valid and that we shouldn't worry about it but that never stopped parishioners and others from avoiding him.

    Once Father Voigt left the SSPX for the resistance, I heard that the first thing he did was get conditionally ordained and I heard that he had wanted to be conditionally ordained while he was being persecuted as a Novus Ordo priest who was with the Society but that they wouldn't approve it.

     

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