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Author Topic: SSPX official position re: validity of new rite of episcopal consecrations  (Read 48338 times)

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Re: SSPX official position re: validity of new rite of episcopal consecrations
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2019, 04:54:43 PM »
No one can say they are postively invalid or positively valid.  This is the issue - doubt.
If there is reason to doubt - and there is, since new-rome's new rites are systematically ambiguous - then conditional ordination is necessary.  One is not allowed to attend a doubtful mass or sacrament under pain of grave sin, per Canon Law.  Therefore, one is not allowed to attend a TLM by a doubtful priest, under pain of sin.
This is a very charitable thing for you to do, but it's the sspx's fault that you have to do so.  This information should be publically posted for all to see.  Every catholic should demand to know that their priests are valid - with 100% certainty.  The fact that the sspx is scared to question new-rome's sacraments is a symptom of their political games and their lukewarm defense of Tradition.
Two questions. One comment. 
Question number one. If I did not know this about it being a sin to attend a Mass of a doubtful priest and had been attending (not receiving communion) for the sake of family unity would that be a venial sin or not a sin at all because it is done for the sake of family unity (and so as not to send them over the cliff and completely lose the faith)? Kind of similar to the controversial question posed to +Bp. Williamson about attendance to the NO Mass (but now with respect to the TLM celebrated by a doubtful priest). Question two. Now that I know this, would it be a mortal sin or would the above extenuating family circuмstances mitigate the culpability? (I have had trad priests say different things on this subject--so I am very confused). Since these are ostensibly Catholic sacraments wouldn't taking this position be schismatic? (Sorry probably more than two questions there...)
Comment. As for posting information publicly for all to see. Here it is: the priest is Msgr Byrnes of St. Judes near Philadelphia. I don't believe he was conditionally ordained. I could be mistaken, but I believe that is what he said to me a few years ago. He was a very friendly priest and I do not intend to create controversy, but as you said--the faithful have a right to know this (though I imagine this is common knowledge in the SSPX world). 

Re: SSPX official position re: validity of new rite of episcopal consecrations
« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2019, 04:59:13 PM »
Monsignor Byrnes is New Rite.  There is an old thread out there about him.  I will search for it and edit this post.

https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/major-change-in-ridgefield-new-principle-for-padre-pio-academy/msg455503/#msg455503



Re: SSPX official position re: validity of new rite of episcopal consecrations
« Reply #32 on: January 02, 2019, 07:44:57 PM »
You cannot truthfully say they are positively invalid as if you actually know, because you don't actually know, because it is impossible to actually know that all NO sacraments are invalid.

I know of a few ex NO priests who joined the SSPX and were conditionally ordained. So while I often agree with your posts, and I know the SSPX upper management is hanging by a NO thread, I cannot agree with this one.
Case in point. Have you heard of Bishop John Elya of the Melkites?
He told me that he goes to every Novus Ordo consecration of a Roman Catholic bishop to which he is invited, and he has been invited to many. Bishop John is quite sure that he has been validly ordained and consecrated through the Eastern Catholic apostolic line of succession. Thus, to insure that Roman Catholic bishops have valid orders, he personally lays his hands on every bishop during their ordination.

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Re: SSPX official position re: validity of new rite of episcopal consecrations
« Reply #33 on: January 02, 2019, 08:03:25 PM »

Quote
Question number one. If I did not know this about it being a sin to attend a Mass of a doubtful priest and had been attending (not receiving communion) for the sake of family unity would that be a venial sin or not a sin at all because it is done for the sake of family unity (and so as not to send them over the cliff and completely lose the faith)? 

Canon law applies firstly to clerics, because it is ecclesiastical law which they must abide by.  It only applies to laymen indirectly, in the sense that clerics are suppose to rule based on the law.  Laymen have no obligation to study or know canon law, generally speaking, so your obligation to know the fine details are small.  My opinion is, you didn't know, so don't worry about the past; worry about the present and future and educate yourself.



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Kind of similar to the controversial question posed to +Bp. Williamson about attendance to the NO Mass (but now with respect to the TLM celebrated by a doubtful priest). 

I don't want to get into that controversy (because that horse has been beaten to death) but i'll just say 1) the end does not justify the means and 2) Christ told us "He that loveth father or mother more than me, is not worthy of me; and he that loveth son or daughter more than me, is not worthy of me."  (Matt 10:37)

Our obligation to God outweighs any other obligation, family included.



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Question two. Now that I know this, would it be a mortal sin or would the above extenuating family circuмstances mitigate the culpability? (I have had trad priests say different things on this subject--so I am very confused). Since these are ostensibly Catholic sacraments wouldn't taking this position be schismatic? (Sorry probably more than two questions there...)

My position is that one has the obligation to attend mass/sacraments from a 100% certain priest.  If one is not available within 1-2 hours drive, then maybe this guy is all you have?  If you have other options, i'd take the more certain route.  It's your catholic duty to give God the best you can.

Family circuмstances do not change your obligations and religious duties.  When you are at your judgement before God, your family won't be there.



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Comment. As for posting information publicly for all to see. Here it is: the priest is Msgr Byrnes of St. Judes near Philadelphia. I don't believe he was conditionally ordained. I could be mistaken, but I believe that is what he said to me a few years ago. He was a very friendly priest and I do not intend to create controversy, but as you said--the faithful have a right to know this (though I imagine this is common knowledge in the SSPX world). 
I cannot say for sure he's not a priest, nor can I say for sure he is one.  Even the priest himself cannot say he's one for sure, because how does he know the intentions of the "bishops" who "ordained" him?  It's truly a mess, exactly as satan wants.  My view is they aren't 100% priests until ordained in the old rite.  But that's my personal opinion only; I can't and won't push that view on anyone else.

Re: SSPX official position re: validity of new rite of episcopal consecrations
« Reply #34 on: January 02, 2019, 08:09:40 PM »
How about the validity of Episcopal / Anglican consecrations / priestly ordinations within that particular sect?  Pretty cut and dry when compared to the “Novus Ordo Sect” ordinations” and “consecrations”.  Absolutely null and void.