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Author Topic: John 23 Mason and Modernist  (Read 3149 times)

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Offline Exurge

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John 23 Mason and Modernist
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2014, 01:34:30 PM »
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  • Quote from: andysloan
    To Exurge


    I can't agree with you on that. An alternative analysis is that the conciliar popes were variously manipulated/controlled/mis-advised/mis-represented by the superforce in the Vatican and highly restricted in their sphere of action.


    They have been hammered by the ignorant masses who do not understand what is going on and various purported utterances by the Popes have been deliberately interpreted for the worse, by people who take pleasure in finding fault, poking at authority and sensationalism.


    It may be best summed up by Benedict XV1.


    During an audience with the Pope, Bishop Fellay found himself alone with the Pope for a moment.  His Excellency seized the opportunity to remind the Pope that he is the Vicar of Christ, possessed of the authority to take immediate measures to end the crisis in the Church on all fronts. The Pope replied thus: “My authority ends at that door.”

    (Castel Gondolfo August, 2005)









    Oh, the "poor pope who is actually good but is pushed around and forced to do everything by the bad bishops against his will" nonsense.

    If you fall for that sort of thing, I don't know what to do for you. You're just as delusional as the ones over at traditio it seems.

    Fellay may be a freemason himself so I don't care what he claims the ratman said.

    Offline cassini

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    John 23 Mason and Modernist
    « Reply #16 on: April 08, 2014, 02:38:41 PM »
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  • Quote from: Exurge
    Quote from: andysloan
    To Exurge


    I can't agree with you on that. An alternative analysis is that the conciliar popes were variously manipulated/controlled/mis-advised/mis-represented by the superforce in the Vatican and highly restricted in their sphere of action.


    They have been hammered by the ignorant masses who do not understand what is going on and various purported utterances by the Popes have been deliberately interpreted for the worse, by people who take pleasure in finding fault, poking at authority and sensationalism.


    It may be best summed up by Benedict XV1.


    During an audience with the Pope, Bishop Fellay found himself alone with the Pope for a moment.  His Excellency seized the opportunity to remind the Pope that he is the Vicar of Christ, possessed of the authority to take immediate measures to end the crisis in the Church on all fronts. The Pope replied thus: “My authority ends at that door.”

    (Castel Gondolfo August, 2005)


    Oh, the "poor pope who is actually good but is pushed around and forced to do everything by the bad bishops against his will" nonsense.

    If you fall for that sort of thing, I don't know what to do for you. You're just as delusional as the ones over at traditio it seems.

    Fellay may be a freemason himself so I don't care what he claims the ratman said.


    Pope Pius X was a simple priest elected amid freemasons all trying to get their man elected. Afterwards, surrounded by Masons everywhere, he stepped up to the task as supreme boss and told them all where to get off. That is what a pope does, should do, what he is elected to do.

    Benedict XVI, was Cardinal Ratzinger, a man who with the likes of JP2 brought about the Modernist revolution of Vatican II so the idea that he ended up as depicted above is indeed hard to believe. If he did, then it was he who back in 1965 brought such a curia into existence. If he did, he should never have become pope, you can refuse you know. If he did then he was a coward, not worthy to be a pope.

    Now look at Pope Francis. Do you think his power ends at his sitting-room door?


    Offline andysloan

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    « Reply #17 on: April 08, 2014, 02:39:59 PM »
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  • To Exurge:


    What evidence can you present in objection to my view?


    God bless!

    Offline andysloan

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    John 23 Mason and Modernist
    « Reply #18 on: April 08, 2014, 02:44:12 PM »
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  • To Exurge/Cassini,


    Are your views based on forensic analysis or prejudice?


    Here is the perspective of the late Fr Malachi Martin (RIP)





    God bless!


    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    John 23 Mason and Modernist
    « Reply #19 on: April 09, 2014, 12:46:28 AM »
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  • Roncalli and Freemasonary, Sodalitium

    Link:

    http://www.sodalitiumpianum.com/index.php?pid=11


    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    John 23 Mason and Modernist
    « Reply #20 on: April 09, 2014, 12:52:22 AM »
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  • Andysloan,

    The material that comes from Necedah cannot be trusted.

    Offline andysloan

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    John 23 Mason and Modernist
    « Reply #21 on: April 09, 2014, 06:07:16 AM »
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  • To RC1953


    There is no evidence in the article that Pope John 23 was a mason. A lot of tendentious speculation.


    For example:



    "Thus, in both cases, it can be hypothesized that Roncalli had an entré into the Masonic world. "


    "According to Virgilio Gaito, the answer is as follows: 1. It seems that A.G. Roncalli frequented the Istanbul lodges. 2. It seems that it may have been  in Paris that A.G. Roncalli may have been initiated into Masonry.  (3) At any rate, the Grand Master’s competence in this matter is, as he says, not completely reliable, but he also says that numerous aspects of John XXIII’s thought are essentially Masonic."




    As I have said before, the exorcism has nothing to do with Necedah and took place in Switzerland in the 1970's




    Offline cassini

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    « Reply #22 on: April 09, 2014, 04:54:54 PM »
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  • Quote from: andysloan
    To Exurge/Cassini,


    Are your views based on forensic analysis or prejudice?


    Here is the perspective of the late Fr Malachi Martin (RIP)





    God bless!



    Forensic analysis.


    Offline andysloan

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    John 23 Mason and Modernist
    « Reply #23 on: April 09, 2014, 05:02:14 PM »
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  •  

    “Conciliar or Catholic”

    by Fr. Gomer de Pauw

    Professor of Theology and Doctor of Canon Law

     A Lecture given in Chicago, 1967




    And then came 1962, with Pope John XXIII occupying the Chair of Peter.  “Good Pope John.”  Never has the church known a Pope who was more traditional in his doctrine and in his liturgical outlook than the good Pope John XXIII, who is now being abused to justify the monstrosities which he detested and which he never authorized. Because when good Pope John XXIII convoked the Ecuмenical Council for October 11, he was told by some of his advisors that he made a mistake in convoking a council which would not be a “happy meeting of a couple of weeks” where bishops from all parts of the world would get together and change a few niceties and then jointly make a declaration to the world that the Catholic Church, unchanged in its fundamental doctrines, was now willing to make a few adaptations in some non-essential, external things.  When he was told, for instance, that the first attack of the Modernists would be against the traditional Latin liturgy, Pope John XXIII, who took responsibility when there was need for it, convoked all the Cardinals living in Rome and all those within reasonable traveling distance, and ordered them to come to Rome on February 22nd of 1962 – eight months before the opening of the Vatican Council.  And most solemnly, personally leaving the Vatican to go and stand on top of the grave of St. Peter in Rome with all the Cardinals standing next to him and a score of bishops right underneath him, Pope John, in the form of an apostolic constitution, which is the highest form of papal intervention next to an infallible dogmatic definition, declared that there was nothing – no council or no bishop – that could touch the traditional Latin liturgy.  He came out and on February 22nd, the Feast of St. Peter’s Chair (he selected just for that) with the constitution “Vitrum Sapientia,” made it clear that this wasn’t just a quick talk from the pope.

     

                “In the full awareness of Our office and of Our authority, We decree and order ad Perpetuam Rei memoriam – in perpetuity,” he said.  “We will and command that this Our constitution remain firmly established and ratified notwithstanding anything to the contrary…”  And that constitution said that Latin had to stay in the liturgy and that the bishops had the obligation to see to it that no one under their authority works for the elimination of the Latin from either the liturgy or the studies for the priesthood in our seminaries.  That was 8 months before the Vatican Council opened.  And the Pope made it clear that this was ad Perpetuam Rei memoriam “for all perpetuity, this must remain in the fullness of Our authority We make this decision,” he said.  And he made it quite clear why:  “A universal religion needs a universal language.”

                And it was in that year, 1962, that a schismatic heretical, Conciliar sect of the Church in the United States of America was born.  Why?  Because regardless of the clear, solemn oath of Pope John XXIII, the majority of our American bishops refused to obey.  I should know because I was there on the faculty at the time.  And I had instructions from our Bishop in Baltimore NOT to implement the constitution from Rome.  That’s when I resigned.

     

                And it is that day that the majority of our bishops automatically excommunicated themselves from our Roman Catholic Church!  Now they try to threaten me with excommunication.  I would consider it a high honor to be illegally excommunicated by men who were excommunicated 5 years ago.  Why?  Because the instruction they sent out to people such as I was: “Pay no attention to that old…” – I won’t quote what they called good, old Pope John.  “Pay no attention.  We will wait until the council convenes and we will get rid of that Latin liturgy fast.  So just wait.”

                Now, ladies and gentlemen, we are still living in a Church that believes in its Code of Canon Law.  And, if you believe Pope Paul VI, and we still do, than Canon 2,332 of our Code of Canon Law makes it so clear.

     

                “Each and everyone, of whatsoever position or rank, whether king, bishop or cardinal, who appeals from the laws, decrees or mandates of the reigning Roman pontiff to an ecuмenical council is suspected of heresy and incurs automatic excommunication.”  And the following Canon: “Persons who directly or indirectly prevent the implementation of acts issued by the Apostolic See incur automatic excommunication.”  – Canon 2,333.  And you don’t have to be a Doctor of Canon Law to understand that language.

     

                1962 was the first step in the establishment of the schismatic, heretical, Conciliar sect which is now posing as the Catholic Church establishment in the United States.  Because now we are faced with Conciliarism.  Pope John XXIII convoked his Vatican Council – and ladies and gentlemen, let no one tell you that I personally, or the Traditional Catholic movement, are fighting the decisions of the Ecuмenical Council.  Oh no, we are not!  No Catholic could!  What we are fighting today are the false interpretations of the Second Vatican Council and it is high time for the present Holy Father to declare that the Vatican Council was BIG MISTAKE, and that it is now completely eradicated from the record.  He could do it!  He is the pope!  And it isn’t just to the credit of Pope John XXIII, because it is much more to the credit of the Holy Ghost, that John XXIII made it crystal clear from the very beginning when he convoked that council.  And I should know; I heard him say it!  Yes, he said it in Latin, but I still understand a little Latin.  He made it clear that, unlike all previous Ecuмenical Councils, the Second Vatican Council was to be, not a Doctrinal Council, but a pastoral one, leaving the door open for any subsequent pope to just say “BUSTA!!”

     

                When it became clear that the Second Vatican Council was heading, humanly speaking, for destruction, God stepped in and closed the Vatican Council.  When I returned to the United States after the first session, I told my friends I had seen Pope John the day before I left Rome.  I said, “That pope will not open any other sessions; that man is dying.”  For once my predictions came true, though I have made a few others which have also come true incidentally.

     

                But the man died – an act of God ended the Second Vatican Council, which had at that time, not made any decisions, any decrees whatsoever.  The first session in 1962 ended, and no second session came because Pope John died.  Now with the existing law of our Church, an Ecuмenical Council is automatically ended when the reigning Supreme Pontiff dies.  An act of God closed the Ecuмenical Council.  And many a church observer was hoping that, when the new pope was elected, he would not re-open the council which had been closed by an outspoken, unmistakably clear act of God.  But after listening to some of his advisors, Pope Paul VI did not convoke a Third Vatican Council, which would have been more in line with the traditions, but he RE-opened the Second Vatican Council which had been closed.  And I was not the only one to be a little bit uncomfortable when witnessing within a month or two: a Council closed by an act of God, re-opened by an act of Man.

     

                But nevertheless, when the final session closed of the Second Vatican Council, every decision and every decree that officially was promulgated by it contained nothing but the traditional, sound doctrine of our Church.

    Offline cassini

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    « Reply #24 on: April 09, 2014, 05:16:30 PM »
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  • Now that is most interesting Andy, thanks, something to dwell on.

    Offline andysloan

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    « Reply #25 on: April 09, 2014, 07:11:34 PM »
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  • To Cassini,

    I'm simply presenting the facts. There is an enormous amount of obfuscation surrounding both JP2 and John 23.


    On the assumption the canonisations are performed, I am trying to prove their case as saints.


    If they are not, then the infallibility of the keys will be broken, which is impossible.


    Without this understanding, some may be pushed into the schismatic error of sedevacantism.


    Others will wander in confusion.


    There is an answer. Confusion is from the devil.



    Daniel 3:41-42


    "And now we follow thee with all our heart, and we fear thee, and seek thy face.  Put us not to confusion, but deal. with us according to thy meekness, and according to the multitude of thy mercies."