Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => General Discussion => Topic started by: Exurge on April 06, 2014, 06:13:17 PM
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What is the best or surest evidence there is of this, if there is any.
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The fact that he called the Council and opened with a speech to the effect of throwing open the doors and windows of the Church to change is quite telling with regard to his modernism. Someone else will have to cite the source because I don't have time to find it today, but he ignored wise counsel that modernists would dominate a Council at that time. He was either an idiot or a modernists or both.
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The fact that he called the Council and opened with a speech to the effect of throwing open the doors and windows of the Church to change is quite telling with regard to his modernism. Someone else will have to cite the source because I don't have time to find it today, but he ignored wise counsel that modernists would dominate a Council at that time. He was either an idiot or a modernists or both.
Yeah. There's also the story they tell of him looking at a docuмent that stated he was suspected of modernism and that he scoffed at it. Does anyone have authentic evidence of that?
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I would read the book Nikita Roncalli. Just do a Google search for the term and the first link that comes up is a free PDF download.
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Many think of Pope John XX111 wrongly:
OPENING SPEECH FOR COUNCIL OF VATICAN II
POPE JOHN XXIII, OCTOBER 11, 1962
But from the renewed, serene, and tranquil adherence to all the teaching of the Church in its entirety and preciseness, as it still shines forth in the Acts of the Council of Trent and First Vatican Council, the Christian, Catholic, and apostolic spirit of the whole world expects a step forward toward a doctrinal penetration and a formation of consciousness in faithful and perfect conformity to the authentic doctrine, which, however, should be studied and expounded through the methods of research and through the literary forms of modern thought. The substance of the ancient doctrine of the deposit of faith is one thing, and the way in which it is presented is another. And it is the latter that must be taken into great consideration with patience if necessary, everything being measured in the forms and proportions of a Magisterium which is predominantly pastoral in character.
The Church's solicitude to promote and defend truth derives from the fact that, according to the plan of God, who wills all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth (l Tim. 2:4), men without the assistance of the whole of revealed doctrine cannot reach a complete and firm unity of minds, with which are associated true peace and eternal salvation.
In this regard, it is a source of considerable sorrow to see that the greater part of the human race -- although all men who are born were redeemed by the blood of Christ -- does not yet participate in those sources of divine grace which exist in the Catholic Church. Hence the Church, whose light illumines all, whose strength of supernatural unity redounds to the advantage of all humanity, is rightly described in these beautiful words of St. Cyprian:
"The Church, surrounded by divine light, spreads her rays over the entire earth. This light, however, is one and unique and shines everywhere without causing any separation in the unity of the body. She extends her branches over the whole world. By her fruitfulness she sends ever farther afield he rivulets. Nevertheless, the head is always one, the origin one for she is the one mother, abundantly fruitful. We are born of her, are nourished by her milk, we live of her spirit' (De Catholicae Eccles. Unitate, 5).
Nothing ecuмenical here! The truth is that the council was heisted:
"This time we are going to stay in the Church, and we are going to dismantle the Catholic Church from within."
Hans Küng (1928- present) Vatican II Theologian
"We have used ambiguous terms during the Council, and we know how we shall interpret them afterwards."
Father Eduard Schillebeeckx (1914-2009) Vatican II Theologian
The last words of Pope John XX111
"Stop the Council; stop the Council!"
See:
http://www.traditio.com/papal/john23.htm
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Many think of Pope John XX111 wrongly:
OPENING SPEECH FOR COUNCIL OF VATICAN II
POPE JOHN XXIII, OCTOBER 11, 1962
But from the renewed, serene, and tranquil adherence to all the teaching of the Church in its entirety and preciseness, as it still shines forth in the Acts of the Council of Trent and First Vatican Council, the Christian, Catholic, and apostolic spirit of the whole world expects a step forward toward a doctrinal penetration and a formation of consciousness in faithful and perfect conformity to the authentic doctrine, which, however, should be studied and expounded through the methods of research and through the literary forms of modern thought. The substance of the ancient doctrine of the deposit of faith is one thing, and the way in which it is presented is another. And it is the latter that must be taken into great consideration with patience if necessary, everything being measured in the forms and proportions of a Magisterium which is predominantly pastoral in character.
The Church's solicitude to promote and defend truth derives from the fact that, according to the plan of God, who wills all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth (l Tim. 2:4), men without the assistance of the whole of revealed doctrine cannot reach a complete and firm unity of minds, with which are associated true peace and eternal salvation.
In this regard, it is a source of considerable sorrow to see that the greater part of the human race -- although all men who are born were redeemed by the blood of Christ -- does not yet participate in those sources of divine grace which exist in the Catholic Church. Hence the Church, whose light illumines all, whose strength of supernatural unity redounds to the advantage of all humanity, is rightly described in these beautiful words of St. Cyprian:
"The Church, surrounded by divine light, spreads her rays over the entire earth. This light, however, is one and unique and shines everywhere without causing any separation in the unity of the body. She extends her branches over the whole world. By her fruitfulness she sends ever farther afield he rivulets. Nevertheless, the head is always one, the origin one for she is the one mother, abundantly fruitful. We are born of her, are nourished by her milk, we live of her spirit' (De Catholicae Eccles. Unitate, 5).
Nothing ecuмenical here! The truth is that the council was heisted:
"This time we are going to stay in the Church, and we are going to dismantle the Catholic Church from within."
Hans Küng (1928- present) Vatican II Theologian
"We have used ambiguous terms during the Council, and we know how we shall interpret them afterwards."
Father Eduard Schillebeeckx (1914-2009) Vatican II Theologian
The last words of Pope John XX111
"Stop the Council; stop the Council!"
See:
http://www.traditio.com/papal/john23.htm
I'd like to see the exact sources for those quotes from Kung and Schillebeeckx.
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Many think of Pope John XX111 wrongly:
OPENING SPEECH FOR COUNCIL OF VATICAN II
POPE JOHN XXIII, OCTOBER 11, 1962
But from the renewed, serene, and tranquil adherence to all the teaching of the Church in its entirety and preciseness, as it still shines forth in the Acts of the Council of Trent and First Vatican Council, the Christian, Catholic, and apostolic spirit of the whole world expects a step forward toward a doctrinal penetration and a formation of consciousness in faithful and perfect conformity to the authentic doctrine, which, however, should be studied and expounded through the methods of research and through the literary forms of modern thought. The substance of the ancient doctrine of the deposit of faith is one thing, and the way in which it is presented is another. And it is the latter that must be taken into great consideration with patience if necessary, everything being measured in the forms and proportions of a Magisterium which is predominantly pastoral in character.
The Church's solicitude to promote and defend truth derives from the fact that, according to the plan of God, who wills all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth (l Tim. 2:4), men without the assistance of the whole of revealed doctrine cannot reach a complete and firm unity of minds, with which are associated true peace and eternal salvation.
In this regard, it is a source of considerable sorrow to see that the greater part of the human race -- although all men who are born were redeemed by the blood of Christ -- does not yet participate in those sources of divine grace which exist in the Catholic Church. Hence the Church, whose light illumines all, whose strength of supernatural unity redounds to the advantage of all humanity, is rightly described in these beautiful words of St. Cyprian:
"The Church, surrounded by divine light, spreads her rays over the entire earth. This light, however, is one and unique and shines everywhere without causing any separation in the unity of the body. She extends her branches over the whole world. By her fruitfulness she sends ever farther afield he rivulets. Nevertheless, the head is always one, the origin one for she is the one mother, abundantly fruitful. We are born of her, are nourished by her milk, we live of her spirit' (De Catholicae Eccles. Unitate, 5).
Nothing ecuмenical here! The truth is that the council was heisted:
"This time we are going to stay in the Church, and we are going to dismantle the Catholic Church from within."
Hans Küng (1928- present) Vatican II Theologian
"We have used ambiguous terms during the Council, and we know how we shall interpret them afterwards."
Father Eduard Schillebeeckx (1914-2009) Vatican II Theologian
The last words of Pope John XX111
"Stop the Council; stop the Council!"
See:
http://www.traditio.com/papal/john23.htm
If it was "heisted," then it was obvious early on. Why didn't he shut it down before he was on his deathbed (if one believes that quote)?
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"This time we are going to stay in the Church, and we are going to dismantle the Catholic Church from within."
Hans Küng (1928- present) Vatican II Theologian
That sort of quote is also direct from highest degrees of Masonry (= Satanism), whereby they reduce things (society - immigrant non mixing) to lowest common denominator - chaos, murder, riots etc
They call it "Ordo Ab Chao" - "Order Out of Chaos or Order from Disorder."
By doing this they intend to introduce a new luciferic religion and you will be forced to attend too.
Satanic Luci-feric (ferrum) "relating to luci-fer "
- ever noticed the " iron" (ye olde blacksmith) in the word?
(The 'Iron' lady )
- Eastern Star mason?,
11 years in power,
Resigned as PM - Opening remarks to the Cabinet on 22 November(11) 1990
resigned from politics after representing Fulham for 33 years!)
Check out all the Masonic/Satanist 11's or multiples of!
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To OHCA:
http://www.traditio.com/papal/john23.htm
Pope John XXIII (1958-1963)
Angelo Giuseppe Roncalli (1881-1963)
Pope John XXIII summoned the Italian bishops to the Roman Synod of 1959 as an anticipation of the Second Vatican council. In a massive reaffirmation of traditional practice, the pope solemnly confirmed the use of Latin, condemned all attempts at creativity on the part of the celebrant of Holy Mass, ordered Gregorian Chant, and forbade women entry to the altar area.
A year later the pope issued his Apostolic Constitution Veterum Sapientia, On Promoting the Study of Latin, as the Church's cultural and religious heritage and as its living language -- universal, immutable, and non-vernacular. He bound bishops to "be on their guard lest anyone under their jurisdiction, being eager for innovation, write against the use of Latin in the teaching of the higher sacred studies or in the liturgy, or through prejudice makes light of the Holy See's will in this regard or interprets it fa1sely." He attributed a very special importance to this docuмent, promulgating it with a solemnity unique in the history of the present century -- in person, in St. Peter's upon the Confession of St. Peter himself, and in the presence of the cardinals and of the Roman clergy.
When he opened the Second Vatican Council on October 11, 1962, Pope John XXIII charged the Council Fathers "that the Sacred Deposit of Christian Doctrine should be guarded and taught more efficaciously [with a] renewed, serene, and tranquil adherence to all the teachings of the Church in their entirety and preciseness, as they still shine forth in the acts of the Council of Trent and the First Vatican Council."
In fact, the Second Vatican Council was apparently a great disappointment to the pope. According to Anne Muggeridge, the daughter-in-law of the famous British Catholic convert and journalist Malcolm Muggeridge), in The Desolate City, John Cardinal Heenan of Westminster reported that when, during the rebellious first session of the Council, the pope realized that the papacy had lost control of the process, he attempted to organize a group of bishops to try to force it to an end.
Malcolm Muggeridge, who reported from Rome on the Second Vatican Council for the British Broadcasting Corporation, considered Pope John "politically naive and unduly influenced by the handful of 'liberal' clerics with whom he is in close contact." In a 1985 interview, he gave his assessment of the pope thus:
Really Pope John -- who was built up as a saintly and perfect pope, the good man of our time -- whether consciously or unconsciously, did more damage to the Church than possibly any other individual man had ever done in the whole of its history.... It seemed almost as though Pope John was operating on behalf of the devil without being in any way conscious of it.
Whatever Pope John's disposition was, however, before the second session of the council could open, he died. His last words on his deathbed, as reported by Jean Guitton, the only Catholic layman to serve as a peritus at the Council, were: "Stop the Council; stop the Council." In any case, it is a fact that Pope John signed not one docuмent of the Second Vatican Council.
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To Exurge
"We have used ambiguous terms during the Council, and we know how we shall interpret them afterwards."
Father Eduard Schillebeeckx (1914-2009) Vatican II Theologian
Cited from the Dutch magazine De Bazuin, No. 16, 1965, in Iota Unum, by Romano Amerio, Kansas City, MO: Sart House, 1996)
Also:
Quoted from - Open letter to confused Catholics:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=jgsl1kHs-kUC&pg=PA111&lpg=PA111&dq=%22We+have+used+ambiguous+terms+during+the+Council,+and+we+know+how+we+shall+interpret+them+afterwards.%22&source=bl&ots=MA5DTu8LYc&sig=-lyaG5imOy89Iped8uNran_rVI8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=je1DU7C9Msi90QX8s4BA&ved=0CDkQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=%22We%20have%20used%20ambiguous%20terms%20during%20the%20Council%2C%20and%20we%20know%20how%20we%20shall%20interpret%20them%20afterwards.%22&f=false
Hans Kung Quote - cannot find original source but referenced on Traditio site (1/3 rd way down):
http://www.traditio.com/tradlib/relquote.txt
"Let no innovator dare to write against the use of Latin in the
sacred rites ... nor let them in their folly attempt to minimize the will of the
Apostolic See in this matter."
Pope John XXIII, Apostolic Constitution
Veterum Sapientia, February 22, 1962
"I don't want to have anything to do with the Vatican. The devil is
in the Vatican."
Albino Cardinal Luciani, later Pope John Paul I, on his
pilgrimage to Fatima, July 1977
" First, there is the mafia in the Church, the prelates who have not
only lost their faith but who remain in the Church in order to destroy the
Church; otherwise, they would leave the Church. If I would lose my faith, I
would leave the Church. But to lose the faith and remain in the Church,
there must be some reason for that. They use the slogan "progress" as a
means to camouflage their diabolical work of destruction and to fool the
faithful, in order to draw them away from Christ and His holy Church. They
are real servants of the anti-Christ. --Dr. Dietrich von Hildebrand
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Google in Mary Ball Martinez and see she wrote books on John XXIII. She was a journalist in the Vatican and saw it all.
Do not forget JP2.
On January 3rd, 1997, the following report appeared in The Catholic Herald, an English weekly church newspaper:
‘The Grand Orient of Italy decided to award the Pontiff Pope John Paul II with the Order of Galileo Galilei, the highest form of recognition able to be made by Italy’s Freemasons to a non-member, in recognition for his promotion of universal Masonic values of fraternity, respect for the dignity of man, and the spirit of tolerance… Our intention is to pay homage to a man who, unlike his predecessors, showed himself to be extremely open-minded, rehabilitating Galileo, promoting a critical analysis of the Inquisition [etc.].’
The Alta Vendita,’ otherwise known as the ‘Alta Vendita Plan’ discovered in 1820, whose ultimate end is that of Voltaire and of the French Revolution, and which speaks of working for a generation that will rejoice in having a pope ‘according to our wants’ and of a clergy who will ‘march under our banner in the belief always that they march under the banner of the Apostolic Keys.’
The secret papers of the Alta Vendita (written in the early 1800s), highest lodge of the Italian secret society, the Carbonari, acquired by Pope Gregory XVI and, on the orders of Pope Pius IX and Pope Leo XIII, was published by Cretineau-Joly in his work The Roman Church and Revolution, reprinted in 1885 and many times after that.
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From 1970's Exorcism
June 18, 1977
E = Exorcist
B = Beelzebub
JOHN XXIII AND THE COUNCIL
E: In the name of the Most Blessed Virgin, tell us the truth!
B: John XXIII commenced his pontificate in 1958; this John was not especially intelligent, he was not particularly learned. We would rather not talk on that subject.
E: But now, is he up in Heaven?
B: Alas, She (he points upward) would like us to say something about him and the damned Council but that is precisely what we do not want to do. You will have much plainer sailing everywhere if you do not talk about the Council and just simply go on your way.
E: In the name... say only what the Blessed Virgin wishes!
B: Alas, She wishes too much of it - too much of it! (He sighs)
E: Say what She wishes!
B: In 1958, John commenced his pontificate; it was an emergency solution, you could say, but still, it was he who arrived. He was pious and had good intentions, although things did not always turn out as he had foreseen. The fact remains that he convoked the Council, and he would have done better had he refrained from doing so.
E: From what point of view would it have been better if he had refrained from doing so?
B: From the point of view of up there (he points upward)
E: Tell the truth!
B: We don't want to say this; we have no wish to preach.
E: From the point of view of down below (he points downward), how was it?
B: Good! It was like this: it was not provided for, up there,[28] that in the end, the baby would be thrown out with the bath-water. Those up there had not wanted that. But things being what they are now, it would have been better if the Council had not been convoked. There were, it is true, some things which could be said were in need of a renewal. But things being what they are now, the baby has been thrown out with the bath-water so completely that the water can run out, the Devil knows to where, and all that remains in the bathtub is the filth and the dirt of the child who was in the bath. It would have been better...
E: By “the baby”, you mean the Holy Church?
B: Yes, the Church and the Council. With the Council, a very great mistake was made. I mean that it is not without good reason that Pope John has said... (he breaks off). Even today, he would be turning in his grave is he knew what its results are.
E: Doesn't he know?
B: Of course he knows. He already saw on his deathbed that it was not very smart. But it was already much too late. He did not know that this Council would have such deplorable, destructive, catastrophic, frightful consequences. He thought he was doing the right thing. He had good will. He believed that he was doing everything for the greatest good of the Church. He wished to renew what little needed renewing.
Could he know that later, those cardinals, those fraudulent imitations of cardinals, those evil cardinals, would snatch the scepter from his hands and would plunge everything into this terrible state? Could he know that? He acted in good faith, so he reached Heaven -at all events, he is saved.
E: In the name... tell the truth and nothing but the truth!
B: He was humble and good, but he was not very gifted. At that time, it would have been necessary to install a very gifted Pope, knowing how to govern the Church and to maintain his authority in such a way that he could not be countermanded. But he learned that too late. But, everything considered, it was in the plans of Those up there (he points upward) because the Scriptures must be wholly fulfilled. Everything was in their plan, but all the same, it is a lamentable sight for Those up there to see the present situation.
E: In the name of the Father... B: He suffered bitterly for it on his deathbed, and he sent for some of his intimate friends, or those whom he thought were loyal to him. He told them that he would like to shout to the world: “If only I had not convoked this Council!”
Because he now saw the frightful consequences of it. but was able to do nothing more, and because he was now on his death-bed and could no longer do anything at ail to stop everything -may the Lord wish to be merciful to him; that was all he could still say. Let the others, the so-called Heaven, to make that known to the world and also to the next Pope.
E: In the name... tell the truth, and only what the Most Blessed Virgin wishes!
B: But those supposedly trustworthy men thought: “He is on his death-bed, he is no longer completely rational.” When a Council has been convoked, one can't just simply say: “We are stopping it” as if it were a tap which had been turned on full and only had to be turned off again. This Council no longer had a handle by which one could take control or slow it down. Things were already too far advanced for anyone to be able to do anything. The control was broken. It was already broken when John XXIII died.
Naturally, we (demons) were involved in the coup. We were trying to gain an advantage everywhere. Naturally, we did our utmost so that this tap could no longer be turned off to stop the flood. That is why you have dissensions which are deadly, catastrophic, frightful, and everything else the Devil knows how to create.
His trustworthy men said: “Perhaps he has arteriosclerosis, or something like that, and he no longer knows very well what he is saying.” The trustworthy men said to each other: “This must definitely not become known. Things are so far advanced, everything is so much under way and so involved, that one can no longer pull the feet out of the shoe.”
E: In the name...!
B: Then came Pope Paul VI, intelligent and gifted. But what could he do to slow down what his predecessor had set in motion, and to put it into reverse? Besides, Paul VI himself made some mistakes in the beginning. He did not know what John XXIII had said on his deathbed. Then he did learn about it, but too late. At all events, he did not act on it, to his own great harm. He even took some steps that even added to the disaster.
His pontificate has now lasted for almost fourteen years, and those fourteen years have been disappointing for him. He learned very quickly what the Council had brought with it of a destructive nature, hut too late. It is a long time - many years - since he understood the faults he committed but nevertheless, it was too late. Now he follows a terrible road, a martyr's road, as the other demons have previously had to say before me, so that he can no longer do anything in the chaotic situation existing at the present time.
People always say: It is the Holy Spirit, it must be the Holy Spirit. When, for example, the false Pope receives diplomats and all sorts of political men in whatever fashion happens to enter into his head, or as it pleases his cardinals, then the world, or at least the world which calls itself faithful to the Pope, says again: The Holy Spirit breathes! This must be the Holy Spirit! But the majority of people do not know that the Holy Spirit no longer has anything to do with it. Now we don't wish to speak any more!
E: You don't wish to speak? But have you said everything that you have to say, Beelzebub? Was the Council directed by the Holy Spirit or not?
B: In the beginning, the Holy Spirit was still present some of the time, but even at that stage, not always.
WITNESSES
The priests whose names are listed below, testify that, based on their personal knowledge of this case of possession, they are firmly convinced of the authenticity of the revelations made by the demons, by order of the Blessed Virgin:
Abbot Albert d'Arx, Nieder-Buchsiten,
Abbot Arnold Egli, Ramiswil,
Abbot Ernest Fischer, missionary, Gossau,
Reverend Father Pius Gervasi, o.s.b., Disentis,
Abbot Karl Holdener, retired, Ried.
Reverend Father Gregoire Meyer, Trimbach,
Reverend Father Robert Rinderer, e.p.p.s., Auw,
Abbot Louis Veillard, retired, Cerneux-Pequignot.
NOTE (French edition).
The eight priests or religious named above are all of Swiss nationality, except Father Fischer, who is a German: they all took part in the exorcisms, except Father Gregoire Meyer, who was at one time Spiritual Director for the possessed woman, and therefore knows her well.
Two other priests, of French nationality, have also taken part in the exorcisms.
DECLARATION
Some of the shepherds of the Church who ought to be protectors of the Faith and of the Truth are that no longer. That is why the Blessed Virgin Mary forces Satan -the father of lies - to tell the truth and to teach the pure doctrine of the Church, even while he fulminates against these Warnings. It is a question of waking the shepherds up and bringing about the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, the Mother of the Holy Church.
It must be understood that all these communications should be compared with the authentic doctrine of the Church and with its present situation. But it is certain, here and now, that the contents of this book show the way towards a profound renewal of the Church.
Reverend Father Arnold Renz.
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Cassini quoted:
"Do not forget JP2.
On January 3rd, 1997, the following report appeared in The Catholic Herald, an English weekly church newspaper:
‘The Grand Orient of Italy decided to award the Pontiff Pope John Paul II with the Order of Galileo Galilei, the highest form of recognition able to be made by Italy’s Freemasons to a non-member, in recognition for his promotion of universal Masonic values of fraternity, respect for the dignity of man, and the spirit of tolerance… Our intention is to pay homage to a man who, unlike his predecessors, showed himself to be extremely open-minded, rehabilitating Galileo, promoting a critical analysis of the Inquisition [etc.].’ "
....and probably had a good laugh after doing so!
Luke 16:8
"And the lord commended the unjust steward, forasmuch as he had done wisely: for the children of this world are wiser in their generation than the children of light."
Daniel 3:41-42
"And now we follow thee with all our heart, and we fear thee, and seek thy face. Put us not to confusion, but deal. with us according to thy meekness, and according to the multitude of thy mercies."
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I have iota unum and will look up the quote.
The ones at traditio are delusional thinking that John 23 was somehow a good and orthodox "pope" who meant well.
He was the one responsible for the mess we are in and they dare defend him.
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To Exurge
I can't agree with you on that. An alternative analysis is that the conciliar popes were variously manipulated/controlled/mis-advised/mis-represented by the superforce in the Vatican and highly restricted in their sphere of action.
They have been hammered by the ignorant masses who do not understand what is going on and various purported utterances by the Popes have been deliberately interpreted for the worse, by people who take pleasure in finding fault, poking at authority and sensationalism.
It may be best summed up by Benedict XV1.
During an audience with the Pope, Bishop Fellay found himself alone with the Pope for a moment. His Excellency seized the opportunity to remind the Pope that he is the Vicar of Christ, possessed of the authority to take immediate measures to end the crisis in the Church on all fronts. The Pope replied thus: “My authority ends at that door.”
(Castel Gondolfo August, 2005)
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To Exurge
I can't agree with you on that. An alternative analysis is that the conciliar popes were variously manipulated/controlled/mis-advised/mis-represented by the superforce in the Vatican and highly restricted in their sphere of action.
They have been hammered by the ignorant masses who do not understand what is going on and various purported utterances by the Popes have been deliberately interpreted for the worse, by people who take pleasure in finding fault, poking at authority and sensationalism.
It may be best summed up by Benedict XV1.
During an audience with the Pope, Bishop Fellay found himself alone with the Pope for a moment. His Excellency seized the opportunity to remind the Pope that he is the Vicar of Christ, possessed of the authority to take immediate measures to end the crisis in the Church on all fronts. The Pope replied thus: “My authority ends at that door.”
(Castel Gondolfo August, 2005)
Oh, the "poor pope who is actually good but is pushed around and forced to do everything by the bad bishops against his will" nonsense.
If you fall for that sort of thing, I don't know what to do for you. You're just as delusional as the ones over at traditio it seems.
Fellay may be a freemason himself so I don't care what he claims the ratman said.
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To Exurge
I can't agree with you on that. An alternative analysis is that the conciliar popes were variously manipulated/controlled/mis-advised/mis-represented by the superforce in the Vatican and highly restricted in their sphere of action.
They have been hammered by the ignorant masses who do not understand what is going on and various purported utterances by the Popes have been deliberately interpreted for the worse, by people who take pleasure in finding fault, poking at authority and sensationalism.
It may be best summed up by Benedict XV1.
During an audience with the Pope, Bishop Fellay found himself alone with the Pope for a moment. His Excellency seized the opportunity to remind the Pope that he is the Vicar of Christ, possessed of the authority to take immediate measures to end the crisis in the Church on all fronts. The Pope replied thus: “My authority ends at that door.”
(Castel Gondolfo August, 2005)
Oh, the "poor pope who is actually good but is pushed around and forced to do everything by the bad bishops against his will" nonsense.
If you fall for that sort of thing, I don't know what to do for you. You're just as delusional as the ones over at traditio it seems.
Fellay may be a freemason himself so I don't care what he claims the ratman said.
Pope Pius X was a simple priest elected amid freemasons all trying to get their man elected. Afterwards, surrounded by Masons everywhere, he stepped up to the task as supreme boss and told them all where to get off. That is what a pope does, should do, what he is elected to do.
Benedict XVI, was Cardinal Ratzinger, a man who with the likes of JP2 brought about the Modernist revolution of Vatican II so the idea that he ended up as depicted above is indeed hard to believe. If he did, then it was he who back in 1965 brought such a curia into existence. If he did, he should never have become pope, you can refuse you know. If he did then he was a coward, not worthy to be a pope.
Now look at Pope Francis. Do you think his power ends at his sitting-room door?
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To Exurge:
What evidence can you present in objection to my view?
God bless!
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To Exurge/Cassini,
Are your views based on forensic analysis or prejudice?
Here is the perspective of the late Fr Malachi Martin (RIP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i5otFwkhF0
God bless!
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Roncalli and Freemasonary, Sodalitium
Link:
http://www.sodalitiumpianum.com/index.php?pid=11
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Andysloan,
The material that comes from Necedah cannot be trusted.
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To RC1953
There is no evidence in the article that Pope John 23 was a mason. A lot of tendentious speculation.
For example:
"Thus, in both cases, it can be hypothesized that Roncalli had an entré into the Masonic world. "
"According to Virgilio Gaito, the answer is as follows: 1. It seems that A.G. Roncalli frequented the Istanbul lodges. 2. It seems that it may have been in Paris that A.G. Roncalli may have been initiated into Masonry. (3) At any rate, the Grand Master’s competence in this matter is, as he says, not completely reliable, but he also says that numerous aspects of John XXIII’s thought are essentially Masonic."
As I have said before, the exorcism has nothing to do with Necedah and took place in Switzerland in the 1970's
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To Exurge/Cassini,
Are your views based on forensic analysis or prejudice?
Here is the perspective of the late Fr Malachi Martin (RIP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i5otFwkhF0
God bless!
Forensic analysis.
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†
“Conciliar or Catholic”
by Fr. Gomer de Pauw
Professor of Theology and Doctor of Canon Law
A Lecture given in Chicago, 1967
And then came 1962, with Pope John XXIII occupying the Chair of Peter. “Good Pope John.” Never has the church known a Pope who was more traditional in his doctrine and in his liturgical outlook than the good Pope John XXIII, who is now being abused to justify the monstrosities which he detested and which he never authorized. Because when good Pope John XXIII convoked the Ecuмenical Council for October 11, he was told by some of his advisors that he made a mistake in convoking a council which would not be a “happy meeting of a couple of weeks” where bishops from all parts of the world would get together and change a few niceties and then jointly make a declaration to the world that the Catholic Church, unchanged in its fundamental doctrines, was now willing to make a few adaptations in some non-essential, external things. When he was told, for instance, that the first attack of the Modernists would be against the traditional Latin liturgy, Pope John XXIII, who took responsibility when there was need for it, convoked all the Cardinals living in Rome and all those within reasonable traveling distance, and ordered them to come to Rome on February 22nd of 1962 – eight months before the opening of the Vatican Council. And most solemnly, personally leaving the Vatican to go and stand on top of the grave of St. Peter in Rome with all the Cardinals standing next to him and a score of bishops right underneath him, Pope John, in the form of an apostolic constitution, which is the highest form of papal intervention next to an infallible dogmatic definition, declared that there was nothing – no council or no bishop – that could touch the traditional Latin liturgy. He came out and on February 22nd, the Feast of St. Peter’s Chair (he selected just for that) with the constitution “Vitrum Sapientia,” made it clear that this wasn’t just a quick talk from the pope.
“In the full awareness of Our office and of Our authority, We decree and order ad Perpetuam Rei memoriam – in perpetuity,” he said. “We will and command that this Our constitution remain firmly established and ratified notwithstanding anything to the contrary…” And that constitution said that Latin had to stay in the liturgy and that the bishops had the obligation to see to it that no one under their authority works for the elimination of the Latin from either the liturgy or the studies for the priesthood in our seminaries. That was 8 months before the Vatican Council opened. And the Pope made it clear that this was ad Perpetuam Rei memoriam “for all perpetuity, this must remain in the fullness of Our authority We make this decision,” he said. And he made it quite clear why: “A universal religion needs a universal language.”
And it was in that year, 1962, that a schismatic heretical, Conciliar sect of the Church in the United States of America was born. Why? Because regardless of the clear, solemn oath of Pope John XXIII, the majority of our American bishops refused to obey. I should know because I was there on the faculty at the time. And I had instructions from our Bishop in Baltimore NOT to implement the constitution from Rome. That’s when I resigned.
And it is that day that the majority of our bishops automatically excommunicated themselves from our Roman Catholic Church! Now they try to threaten me with excommunication. I would consider it a high honor to be illegally excommunicated by men who were excommunicated 5 years ago. Why? Because the instruction they sent out to people such as I was: “Pay no attention to that old…” – I won’t quote what they called good, old Pope John. “Pay no attention. We will wait until the council convenes and we will get rid of that Latin liturgy fast. So just wait.”
Now, ladies and gentlemen, we are still living in a Church that believes in its Code of Canon Law. And, if you believe Pope Paul VI, and we still do, than Canon 2,332 of our Code of Canon Law makes it so clear.
“Each and everyone, of whatsoever position or rank, whether king, bishop or cardinal, who appeals from the laws, decrees or mandates of the reigning Roman pontiff to an ecuмenical council is suspected of heresy and incurs automatic excommunication.” And the following Canon: “Persons who directly or indirectly prevent the implementation of acts issued by the Apostolic See incur automatic excommunication.” – Canon 2,333. And you don’t have to be a Doctor of Canon Law to understand that language.
1962 was the first step in the establishment of the schismatic, heretical, Conciliar sect which is now posing as the Catholic Church establishment in the United States. Because now we are faced with Conciliarism. Pope John XXIII convoked his Vatican Council – and ladies and gentlemen, let no one tell you that I personally, or the Traditional Catholic movement, are fighting the decisions of the Ecuмenical Council. Oh no, we are not! No Catholic could! What we are fighting today are the false interpretations of the Second Vatican Council and it is high time for the present Holy Father to declare that the Vatican Council was BIG MISTAKE, and that it is now completely eradicated from the record. He could do it! He is the pope! And it isn’t just to the credit of Pope John XXIII, because it is much more to the credit of the Holy Ghost, that John XXIII made it crystal clear from the very beginning when he convoked that council. And I should know; I heard him say it! Yes, he said it in Latin, but I still understand a little Latin. He made it clear that, unlike all previous Ecuмenical Councils, the Second Vatican Council was to be, not a Doctrinal Council, but a pastoral one, leaving the door open for any subsequent pope to just say “BUSTA!!”
When it became clear that the Second Vatican Council was heading, humanly speaking, for destruction, God stepped in and closed the Vatican Council. When I returned to the United States after the first session, I told my friends I had seen Pope John the day before I left Rome. I said, “That pope will not open any other sessions; that man is dying.” For once my predictions came true, though I have made a few others which have also come true incidentally.
But the man died – an act of God ended the Second Vatican Council, which had at that time, not made any decisions, any decrees whatsoever. The first session in 1962 ended, and no second session came because Pope John died. Now with the existing law of our Church, an Ecuмenical Council is automatically ended when the reigning Supreme Pontiff dies. An act of God closed the Ecuмenical Council. And many a church observer was hoping that, when the new pope was elected, he would not re-open the council which had been closed by an outspoken, unmistakably clear act of God. But after listening to some of his advisors, Pope Paul VI did not convoke a Third Vatican Council, which would have been more in line with the traditions, but he RE-opened the Second Vatican Council which had been closed. And I was not the only one to be a little bit uncomfortable when witnessing within a month or two: a Council closed by an act of God, re-opened by an act of Man.
But nevertheless, when the final session closed of the Second Vatican Council, every decision and every decree that officially was promulgated by it contained nothing but the traditional, sound doctrine of our Church.
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Now that is most interesting Andy, thanks, something to dwell on.
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To Cassini,
I'm simply presenting the facts. There is an enormous amount of obfuscation surrounding both JP2 and John 23.
On the assumption the canonisations are performed, I am trying to prove their case as saints.
If they are not, then the infallibility of the keys will be broken, which is impossible.
Without this understanding, some may be pushed into the schismatic error of sedevacantism.
Others will wander in confusion.
There is an answer. Confusion is from the devil.
Daniel 3:41-42
"And now we follow thee with all our heart, and we fear thee, and seek thy face. Put us not to confusion, but deal. with us according to thy meekness, and according to the multitude of thy mercies."