Author Topic: Novus Ordo beatifications (Read 1296 times)

Disputaciones · « **on:** July 27, 2015, 11:48:47 PM »

Today an old aunt of mine died. She was Novus Ordo. Another Novus Ordo aunt of mine, posted the following on Facebook:

"I just found out about the sad news of the passing away of my very dear aunt XXXXXX, a woman of God, there is a party in Heaven and my uncle XXXXX is happy to have her by her side!!!! My most sincere condolences to my cousins XXXXX and XXXXX and their families. Rest in peace aunt XXXXX, we're going to miss you!!!!"

Did Catholics before V2 ever say such things? She basically declared her a saint.

I realize this is how they all are now, they all go to Heaven no matter how badly they lived etc., it doesn't matter. They don't believe in justification or sin anyways, so it's only natural.

Marlelar · « **Reply #1 on:** July 28, 2015, 12:11:47 AM »

Pre-V2 we prayed for the repose of the soul, and continued to have Masses said for the dead.

Believing "everyone" goes to heaven is NO at its worst.

Nadir · « **Reply #2 on:** July 28, 2015, 01:09:00 AM »

Quote from: Disputaciones

Did Catholics before V2 ever say such things?

I don't believe so. I have never heard this said before the revolution.

Disputaciones · « **Reply #3 on:** July 28, 2015, 02:12:01 AM »

So what did they used to say and what should be said?

I know it's totally different with someone who was manifestly a saint during life and led a holy life and so on, I understand that.

But regular folks?

Was "may he/she rest in peace" the most that was said that may sound like the person went straight to Heaven? I know that the word may is conditional and nothing like the bold Novus Ordo assurances.

ClarkSmith · « **Reply #4 on:** July 28, 2015, 02:34:41 AM »

I don't think it is proper to leave condolences on Facebook. It comes off as insincere to me. Condolences should be done in person. A hand written letter is also acceptable if you live far from the deceased. The letter should be dignified and sympathetic. You should not write things like, " there is a party in Heaven" because it is not the place to make jokes. Maybe say something like, "Please accept my deepest sympathy for your loss. My prayers are with xxxxx and your family."

Nadir · « **Reply #5 on:** July 28, 2015, 03:03:53 AM »

Well, what you have quoted here was on Facebook. So for that there was really no equivalent.

It would depend on the milieu and the circuмstances in which a comment was made.

In Catholic circles, one may here, "May God have mercy on his soul." Possibly "He's gone to his reward" or "I'll remember him in my prayers.

I have a collection of holy cards of family who died before the revolution. They are very beautiful and uplifting, usually saying

"In your charity please pray for the repose of the soul of XXXX YYYYY" or

"Sweet Heart of Jesus, have mercy on her soul
In loving memory of TTTT YYYY BBBB R.I.P."

Always adding prayers:

Eternal rest grant....

Maybe the quote of St Monica: Lay this body anywhere and be not concerned about it. This one thing I ask of you that wherever you may be you will always remember me at the altar of the Lord.

or St Ephrem: I beseech all those who loved me to grant me the help of their prayers.

or St Ambrose: We have loved him in life, let us not forget him in death.

I don't think that saying "may he/she rest in peace" sounds like the person went straight to Heaven or was meant that way.

PerEvangelicaDicta · « **Reply #6 on:** July 28, 2015, 09:20:50 AM »

Nadir, thank you for very excellent instruction!

The tragedy of Disputaciones' family beliefs, and most of the Catholic world who hold the presumption of salvation, is the suffering that could be alleviated for the Holy Souls, and the immeasurable benefit to our souls in praying for them. For all intents and purposes, the Church Suffering is abandoned.

Marlelar · « **Reply #7 on:** July 28, 2015, 03:21:44 PM »

Quote from: PerEvangelicaDicta

Nadir, thank you for very excellent instruction!

... For all intents and purposes, the Church Suffering is abandoned.

That is so true! We always add prayers for the suffering souls in our nightly prayers.

Miseremini · « **Reply #8 on:** July 28, 2015, 08:28:50 PM »

Speaking of before and after Vat II, much of our vocabulary has changed.

In the '60's the newspapers ran a page titled DEATHS. Then in the '70's it changed to OBITUARIES. Now in the paper it is headed LIFE NEWS.

Death notices used to start with So and so died, the family announces the death etc. Now even amongst trads all I see is he/she passed away, his/her passing.
It appears everyone has become afraid to say the words, die,, died, death, dead,
Soon someone will invent a word to replace dying .

Christ didn't pass away on the cross. He died!

Why have we adapted the liberal lingo?

JezusDeKoning · « **Reply #9 on:** July 28, 2015, 09:12:15 PM »

Quote from: Miseremini

Speaking of before and after Vat II, much of our vocabulary has changed.

In the '60's the newspapers ran a page titled DEATHS. Then in the '70's it changed to OBITUARIES. Now in the paper it is headed LIFE NEWS.

Death notices used to start with So and so died, the family announces the death etc. Now even amongst trads all I see is he/she passed away, his/her passing.
It appears everyone has become afraid to say the words, die,, died, death, dead,
Soon someone will invent a word to replace dying .

Christ didn't pass away on the cross. He died!

Why have we adapted the liberal lingo?

I think the cause of death is what determines the verbiage nowadays. I usually hear 'pass away' if it was an illness, i.e. "passed away from a brain tumor" and 'died' if something else, i.e. "died in a plane crash". Not necessarily 'liberal lingo'.

Lighthouse · « **Reply #10 on:** July 28, 2015, 11:06:47 PM »

Don't forget: "Well fortified with the Holy Sacraments"

I don't see that anymore at all.

Nadir · « **Reply #11 on:** July 28, 2015, 11:18:19 PM »

Quote from: JezusDeKoning

Quote from: Miseremini
Speaking of before and after Vat II, much of our vocabulary has changed.

In the '60's the newspapers ran a page titled DEATHS. Then in the '70's it changed to OBITUARIES. Now in the paper it is headed LIFE NEWS.

Death notices used to start with So and so died, the family announces the death etc. Now even amongst trads all I see is he/she passed away, his/her passing.
It appears everyone has become afraid to say the words, die,, died, death, dead,
Soon someone will invent a word to replace dying .

Christ didn't pass away on the cross. He died!

Why have we adapted the liberal lingo?

I think the cause of death is what determines the verbiage nowadays. I usually hear 'pass away' if it was an illness, i.e. "passed away from a brain tumor" and 'died' if something else, i.e. "died in a plane crash". Not necessarily 'liberal lingo'.

Nevertheless, "passed away", and the other expression which I learnt on CathInfo - "she passed", are still euphemisms (i.e. mild or indirect word or expression substituted for one considered to be too harsh or blunt when referring to something unpleasant or embarrassing.) It was rarely heard when I was younger, but mainly among protestants.

Catholics say, or said, "die".