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Author Topic: JPII  (Read 3675 times)

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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: JPII
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2019, 01:45:29 PM »
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  • NovusOrdoWatch.com and Traditio.com have been docuмenting the V2 popes' heresies for decades.  Plenty of picture/quote evidence there.  "Tradition in Action" also has some articles on this topic. 

    Offline AnonymousCatholic

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    Re: JPII
    « Reply #16 on: October 24, 2019, 02:48:31 PM »
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  • NovusOrdoWatch.com and Traditio.com have been docuмenting the V2 popes' heresies for decades.  Plenty of picture/quote evidence there.  "Tradition in Action" also has some articles on this topic.
    Thank you. NorvusOrdo watch had over a dozen wonderful links regarding the guy. Makes me think that they sainted him so quickly because the love of him wouldn't last 100 years. Had to force it through before the average bear stopped caring and the not so average bears started tearing him a new one. 


    Offline Praeter

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    Re: JPII
    « Reply #17 on: October 24, 2019, 02:54:41 PM »
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  • You want any and all "dirt" on JP2; but that's not a very Catholic thing to ask. The way you phrase it makes it sound as if a tabloid journalist is trying to get dirt for an expose. It that what you're trying to do?

    JP2 caused scandal, to be sure; and as such it would be more proper to ask about scandal that he caused, and how he went against the teachings of the Church, rather than "any and all dirt," though for some (especially the sedes and sedewhatevers) dirt and scandal probably amount to the same thing.
       :applause:

    Offline Nishant Xavier

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    Re: JPII
    « Reply #18 on: October 24, 2019, 03:05:33 PM »
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  • Pope John Paul II made some mistakes, and both +ABL and +BF respectfully criticized those. He also did some good things, which both +ABL and +BF have appreciated. Here is some "dirt" which you may not like, but it is all about missionary works and salvation of souls, the Eucharist, catechesis etc. The Catholic Church is not by any means totally dead yet, as some of you seem to wish.

    "How John Paul II Transformed Mother Teresa’s Sisters
    Many are aware of Mother Teresa’s beginning her order after receiving her “call within a call.” But few are aware of this later call, given through St. John Paul II, to deepen their mission.
    Laura Dittus
    On the feast of St. Teresa of Calcutta this year I came across “The Spirituality of Mother Teresa,” written by Fr. John Hardon on the occasion of the first anniversary of her death. In this piece, Fr. Hardon, an American Jesuit and now a Servant of God, highlights a number of characteristics of Mother Teresa’s spirituality and also, in the same reflection, reveals a particular way in which St. John Paul II changed the Missionaries of Charity, the religious community that she founded.
    In Fr. Hardon’s reflection, there are seven characteristics of Mother’s spirituality that he points out and then elaborates upon. While the piece is worth reading in its entirety, the seven characteristics themselves bear light on the beauty of Mother Teresa’s spiritual life and include such aspects as “Deep Faith in the Real Presence,” “Deep Apostolic Love for the Poor,” “Spirit of Prayer,” and “Zeal for the True Faith.” In this article, I will focus on the last of the points as named here, “Zeal for the True Faith.”

    “Zeal for the True Faith” and Missionaries of Souls
    In Fr. Hardon’s description of this characteristic in the life and spirituality of Mother Teresa – “Zeal for the True Faith,” one finds an aspect of the history of the Missionaries of Charity that many are unfamiliar with. This historical moment, however, bears light on how important it is not just to care for the materially poor but also the spiritually poor, a need still very present in modern life, and even in the Church, today. Fr. Hardon begins his description of how St. John Paul II changed the Constitutions of the Missionaries of Charity in this way:
    Quote
    Quote After some thirty-five years of serving the poorest of the poor, Mother Teresa was called to Rome by Pope John Paul II. He told her how deeply he appreciated what she was doing worldwide to relieve the poverty of so many people. But then he told her, “I would like to change your Constitutions. I want the Missionaries of Charity to become missionaries not only of poor bodies but also of poor souls.”

    Many are aware of Mother Teresa’s beginning the Missionaries of Charity after receiving an inspiration from the Lord, often referred to as a “call within a call.” But few are aware of this later call, given through St. John Paul II, to deepen their mission.

    “Train them!”

    Fr. Hardon continues his description of this encounter between St. Teresa of Calcutta and St. John Paul II in these words:
    Quote
    Quote The Holy Father then told her to start catechizing and evangelizing. When Mother told the Pope that her Sisters were not trained for this apostolate, he told her, “train them!”

    What one finds in this encounter is amazing. Here Pope John Paul II gives Mother Teresa a particular call for her already established religious community, to care for not only the materially impoverished but also the spiritually impoverished, and to provide for the Sisters that they might carry out this work, which Mother Teresa saw that they were not yet equipped to do.
    One sees here how the Lord can take the poverty, even in the training of a particular religious community, and use it for his glory. Through providing for the training of the Missionaries of Charity, the work of catechesis and evangelization of the spiritually poor would later be carried out. Hardon, himself a renowned theologian, would, through his own call from the Vatican assist the Sisters in, as he calls it, “training them for their new apostolate.” Fr. Hardon also relates that this moment in the history of the Missionaries of Charity brought a great effect:
    Quote
    Quote Words cannot describe the impact which this had on the Missionaries of Charity. They have been phenomenally zealous and effective in teaching the true faith. Located in over one hundred countries throughout the world, I can honestly say they are now the largest missionary order in the world. But now, the word “missionary” has come to mean teaching the faith which God became man to reveal to the world.

    The Missionaries of Charity, who had already been serving Christ in the poorest of the poor, now took on a “new apostolate,” without abandoning their initial work and this response to the new “call within a call” has borne great fruit."

    From: http://www.ncregister.com/blog/lauradittus/how-john-paul-ii-transformed-mother-teresas-sisters

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: JPII
    « Reply #19 on: October 24, 2019, 03:16:11 PM »
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  • Quote
    Pope John Paul II made some mistakes
    JPII openly promoted inter-religious worship, which is one of the greatest blasphemies one can commit against Almighty God.  His Assisi conference was akin to the Tower of Babel goal.  He did all this openly, publically and scandalously.  How many souls did he lead to hell because of this?  And he never abjured this heresy, nor did he apologize for this sacrilegious event.  He's similar to St Peter, who denied Our Lord 3x times.  Yet St Peter sought forgiveness and was sorrowful for his betrayal.  JPII never repented.


    Offline Praeter

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    Re: JPII
    « Reply #20 on: October 24, 2019, 03:35:24 PM »
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  • The comments made by some on this thread to defend JPII are so pathetic it defies belief, but is typical. Everything that St. Pius X condemned in his writings against Modernism could be observed in JPII's public actions. One of the two had to be in error. I wager that it was the latter.

    Just to clarify, my intent was not to defend John Paul II or prevent problematic aspects of his papacy from being discussed.  My intent was simply to point that if you start looking for dirt on someone and gossiping about it publicly, you are almost certainly going to fall into sin.

    That being said, here are a few issues with JP II's papacy that are worth looking into.
    During a General audience, he taught that the phrase from the Apostles Creed, "he descended into hell," means Christ was buried in the tomb.


    Quote
    John Paul II, General Audience January 1989: "As is evident from the texts quoted, the article of the Apostles' Creed, "he descended into hell", is based on the New Testament statements <on the descent of Christ>, after his death on the Cross, into the "region of death", into the a abode of the dead", which in Old Testament language was called the "abyss". If the Letter to the Ephesians speaks of "the lower parts of the earth", it is because the earth receives the human body after death, and so it received also the body of Christ who expired on Calvary, as described by the Evangelists (cf. Mt 27:59 f, and parallel passages; In 19:40-42). <Christ passed through> a real <experience of death>, including the final moment which is generally a part of the whole process: <he was placed in the tomb.>
     
    It is a confirmation that this was a real, and not merely an apparent, death. His soul, separated from the body, was glorified in God, but his body lay in the tomb as a <corpse.>
     
    During the three (incomplete) days between the moment when he "expired" (cf. Mk 15:37) and the resurrection, Jesus experienced the a state of death", that is, the <separation of body and soul>, as in the case of all people. This is the primary meaning of the words "he descended into hell"; they are linked to what Jesus himself had foretold when, in reference to the story of Jonah. he had said: "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so <will the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth>" (Mt 12:40)." https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/he-descended-into-hell-8679

    That of course is entirely false.  Descended into hell means his soul descended into the Limbo of the Fathers, which is part of hell. Here is what the Catechism of the Council of Trent teaches:


    Quote
    Catechism of the Council of Trent:  

    First Part of this Article: "He Descended into Hell"


    In the first part of this Article, then, we profess that immediately after the death of Christ His soul descended into hell, and dwelt there as long as His body remained in the tomb; and also that the one Person of Christ was at the same time in hell and in the sepulchre. Nor should this excite surprise; for, as we have already frequently said, although His soul was separated from His body, His Divinity was never parted from either His soul or His body.
     
    "Hell"

    As the pastor, by explaining the meaning of the word hell in this place may throw considerable light on the exposition of this Article, it is to be observed that by the word hell is not here meant the sepulchre, as some have not less impiously than ignorantly imagined; for in the preceding Article we learned that Christ the Lord was buried, and there was no reason why the Apostles, in delivering an Article of faith, should repeat the same thing in other and more obscure terms.
     
    Hell, then, here signifies those secret abodes in which are detained the souls that have not obtained the happiness of heaven. In this sense the word is frequently used in Scripture. Thus the Apostle says: At the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of those that are in heaven, on earth, and in hell; and in the Acts of the Apostles St. Peter says that Christ the Lord is again risen, having loosed the sorrows of hell.

    I would also point to the Nestorian "Mass" that contained the Anaphora of Addai and Mari, which John Paul II said was valid, in spite of the fact that there are no words of consecration.  

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: JPII
    « Reply #21 on: October 24, 2019, 04:10:24 PM »
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  • Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: JPII
    « Reply #22 on: October 24, 2019, 04:39:22 PM »
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  • Im afraid you wouldn't get much of a discussion from such a topic. I'm a simple man who has committed simple sins. I personally think it'd be much more interesting to discuss the sins of a man who was declared a saint under questionable circuмstances (in this humble sinners opinion) as I've pointed out in the original post. Tell you what though I'll start keeping a journal of all my sins and should I ever be put into a position where I am eligible for sainthood you can read that to your hearts content.
    Bravo!


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: JPII
    « Reply #23 on: October 24, 2019, 04:52:50 PM »
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  • Pax, it's been a while.  

    While Saint Peter certainly denied our Lord, Saint Robert Bellarmine says that he did not "throw off the confession of faith...", unlike the heretic John Paul II.  
    Also important in that Bellarmine quote is that Peter was not yet pope when he denied Christ.

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: JPII
    « Reply #24 on: October 24, 2019, 04:58:38 PM »
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  • The problem is that when we start gossiping (and that's what it is) about other people's sins, we almost always fall into sin ourselves.  The facts are sketchy, the circuмstances are even more so, and we have no idea what was taking place in the internal forum.  Moreover, our judgment is easily influenced by our passions, which causes us to judge in excess - and the excess in this case will be toward the worse.  Publicly discussing other people's sins is a bad idea, and will certainly be regretted on judgment day.
    Rubbish.
    When someone is raised to the altar, they are presented as a heroic example.
    That is why Wojtyla the Second Worst needed to bypass the traditional careful examination based on the "Devil's Advocate" and why his one "miracle" was a cancer patient who improved after standard chemotherapy. Big whoop.

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: JPII
    « Reply #25 on: October 24, 2019, 05:11:54 PM »
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  • A letter sent to him when he was still Wojtyla the Worst (pre-Jorge):


    Quote
    Evidently hovering at the instant of your personal judgment before Christ the King the Faithful Remnant can only pray that you are in the most excruciating agony of conscience so that you repent and make reparation for your devastation of Holy Mother Church. In your punishingly long pontificate you have made most of Holy Mother Church into another defecting ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan, converts of the Pharisees, “children of hell two-fold more than the Pharisees themselves.”

    Indeed you have attained the perfection of your youthful worldly goals. You have become the supreme actor with an idolizing cult of personality and you have become a prolific playwright, but one who composes circuмlocutive ambiguities made tragic buffooneries by the perverts and neo-Pharisees you appoint to red hats and miters.

    While the queer and schismatic Americans and Europeans ceaselessly mock God, you make yourself a papal ostrich with head buried in your geopolitics and personalist secularisms, never to raise your head to discipline —except to punish the Athanasius of our times. Per singulos dies you made more true St. Basil’s observation: “Only one offense is now vigorously punished, —an accurate observance of our fathers’ traditions. For this cause the pious are driven from their countries, and transported into deserts.”

    You have apologized for falsified history; so honored heresy, schism, paganism, and Pharisaism that you have eternally doomed numberless adherents; protected perversion and promoted perverts; presided over the further Protestantization and blasphemization of the Holy Sacrifice of Calvary; administered a geopolitical saint factory; so abrogated your duty to speak Truth, catechize in clarity, and discipline justly that you may be an accomplice in every sin; and you blaspheme your protectress, Our Lady of Fatima, by desecrating her shrine with paganism, indifferentism, and syncretism, propagating a false Third Secret, and failing to consecrate Russia to her Immaculate Heart precisely as she requested, explicitly naming Russia with all the bishops at the same time.

    In short, Holy Father, you make the Jews only a type and the New Israel the fulfillment of Isaiah 5:20.  I can find no worse Pope in history; not Liberius, not Honorius. The Faithful Remnant can only hope that the Holy Spirit strengthens you to publicly repent and make reparation —giving primacy to the traditional Mass and the traditional orders, reinstituting the Oath Against Modernism, anathematizing heretics and disciplining perverts, releasing the full and truthful text of the Third Secret, and consecrating Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary precisely as Our Lady of Fatima requested. You have two apologies remaining —to God and to His Faithful.

    May Christ the King flood you with grace and may He have mercy on you.



    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: JPII
    « Reply #26 on: October 24, 2019, 05:18:52 PM »
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  • Another letter to the monster:


    Quote
    St. Catherine of Siena, Letter to Pope Gregory XI: “Alas, Most Holy Father!
    At times, obedience to you leads to eternal damnation.”


    …Could the Hindu desecration of Fatima be a just punishment for Your
    Holiness receiving the mark of Shiva, a sign of worship of a HIndu
    false god?

    There was a time when Catholic martyrs suffered myriad horrible
    deaths rather than offer even a pinch of incense to false gods.
    What has happened to the Church, Churchmen, and Faithful
    that Your Holiness regularly honors false religions?

    Having been condemned September 27, 235 A.D in metallum
    (to the mines) for his Catholic Faith, Pope St. Pontian was force-marched from the
    port, Othoca, to the Sardinian lead mines. His left eye was gouged out with a dagger
    and the socket cauterized with molten iron. The joints of his left foot were burned
    to cause painful scarification thereby impairing walking. A nerve… was severed by
    stabbing behind his right knee to cause a “foot drop,” further
    impairing walking. He was branded on the forehead. Iron rings were soldered around
    his ankles then, manacled, his ankles were tethered by a heavy chain to a painfully
    constricting iron ring around his waist so short that he could only stoop, never to stand
    straight again. After being burned, stabbed, chained and branded, he was scourged
    sixty lashes against a stone obelisk, then immediately sent with pick and shovel into
    the choking poisonous dust of the lead mines to work twenty of every twenty-four hours,
    subsisting (between beatings) on one meal of coarse bread and water daily – until late in
    January 236 A.D. when he was martyred.

    Catholic martyrs have been flayed, grilled on a gridiron, burned, boiled, beaten, devoured, gored, racked, stoned,
    crushed, drowned, asphyxiated, garroted, hanged, axed, guillotined, impaled, stabbed, flogged, eviscerated, torn,
    quartered, pummeled, poisoned, gassed, shot, buried, frozen, starved, and worked to death because of our authentic Catholic Faith.

    What has happened that the blood of the martyrs runs so thin in you, Holy Father, and in the
    monstrously apostate prelates you have honored and inflicted upon us? Why is Your Holiness not
    like Pope St, Pontian I ?

    Galatians 2:11 “But when Cephas was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he
    was to be blamed.”


    Offline LeDeg

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    Re: JPII
    « Reply #27 on: October 24, 2019, 06:07:19 PM »
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  • “Every quest of the human spirit for truth and goodness, and in the last analysis for God, is inspired by the Holy Spirit. The various religions arose from this primordial human openness to God. At their origins we often find founders who, with the help of God’s Spirit, achieved a deeper religious experience. Handed on to others, this experience took form in the doctrines, rites and precepts of the various religions. […] Normally, it will be in the sincere practice of what is good in their own religious traditions and by following the dictates of their own conscience that the members of other religions respond positively to God’s invitation and receive salvation in Jesus Christ, even while they do not recognize or acknowledge him as their Savior.”

     


    John Paul II

    General Audience of Wednesday 9 September 1998
    "You must train harder than the enemy who is trying to kill you. You will get all the rest you need in the grave."- Leon Degrelle

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: JPII
    « Reply #28 on: October 24, 2019, 06:32:02 PM »
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  • Another letter to the monster:

    Well, the only objection I have to this letter is in addressing it to the "Holy Father".  As my father used to say, "he is neither holy, nor a father."

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: JPII
    « Reply #29 on: October 24, 2019, 06:40:38 PM »
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  • In a very real way, Wojtyla was far worse than Bergoglio.  Wojtyla disguised his heretical religious indifferentism (the worst sins against the FIRST Commandment) under a veneer of piety.  He was, after all, a trained actor.  He also held a relatively solid conservative line on most moral issues.  Consequently, this fooled people into considering him orthodox, and therefore falsely accepting his religious indifferentism as orthodox.  On the other hand, very few conservative Catholics take Bergoglio seriously.

    People have been desensitized to the horror of violating the First Commandment; it would have been less of a crime had Wojtyla gone around raping altar boys.