Author Topic: Would it be better to let every person in the world die . . . (Read 3545 times)

Matto · « **Reply #30 on:** September 04, 2010, 09:05:08 PM »

If there were no sin in denying Christ under duress and under the highly emotional condition of staring death in the face, then it would have been better for the martyrs to all deny Christ to avoid the great sin of murder. If you can prevent a great sin with a simple morally neutral act, you are obliged to do so.

scipio_a · « **Reply #31 on:** September 04, 2010, 09:49:27 PM »

Quote from: Matto

If scipio_a is correct, the martyrs died in vain. I do not believe scipio_a is correct.

Hardly. Take it up with St. Thomas Aq

scipio_a · « **Reply #32 on:** September 04, 2010, 09:50:55 PM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

Quote
Basicly the premise can be stated that a sin under duress is either no sin, or the gravity is lessened....generally speaking.

Except that's not true. Ever hear of martyrdom? Were the people who sacrificed to idols to save their lives free of sin?

No, never heard of martyrdom, where'd you hear about that?

Matto · « **Reply #33 on:** September 05, 2010, 05:48:34 AM »

Quote from: scipio_a

Take it up with St. Thomas Aq

I guess those quotes of yours are from St. Thomas Aquinas. Those quotes say a person is not guilty of sin when he is completely possessed by the devil and the actions of his body are not controlled by his will, but by the will of the devil. I agree with him. He is not saying that sins under duress are without sin, or sins in an emotional state are without sin, but that actions when the will is not involved at all such as under demonic possession are not sins. People under duress and in an emotional state still have use of their will. You are coming to your own conclusion, finding quotes from Saint Thomas that do not support your conclusion, then when someone questions you, saying they are questioning Saint Thomas.

scipio_a · « **Reply #34 on:** September 05, 2010, 06:04:25 AM »

Quote from: Matto

Quote from: scipio_a
Take it up with St. Thomas Aq

I guess those quotes of yours are from St. Thomas Aquinas. Those quotes say a person is not guilty of sin when he is completely possessed by the devil and the actions of his body are not controlled by his will, but by the will of the devil. I agree with him. He is not saying that sins under duress are without sin, or sins in an emotional state are without sin, but that actions when the will is not involved at all such as under demonic possession are not sins. People under duress and in an emotional state still have use of their will. You are coming to your own conclusion, finding quotes from Saint Thomas that do not support your conclusion, then when someone questions you, saying they are questioning Saint Thomas.

You need to read more carefully. I do not use quotes that do not support my stand. And if they did not (if St TA did not)....I would change my stand.

Matto · « **Reply #35 on:** September 05, 2010, 07:12:29 AM »

I followed your suggestion and went back and read more carefully, but I still do not see how any of them support your conclusion. Our minds must be different. Either you are misinterpreting them by seeing things that are not really there, or I am missing things that really are there.