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Author Topic: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative  (Read 5548 times)

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Offline Giovanni Berto

Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2019, 01:34:57 PM »
Something that has always troubled me is this fake certificate of baptism thing that Pius XII did to save the jews.
Isn't it against the 8th commandment?
He was the last truly catholic pope, but he certainly was very far from being a great one.
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Offline tdrev123

Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2019, 03:25:10 PM »
Quote from: Giovanni Berto on November 07, 2019, 01:34:57 PM
Something that has always troubled me is this fake certificate of baptism thing that Pius XII did to save the jews.
Isn't it against the 8th commandment?
He was the last truly catholic pope, but he certainly was very far from being a great one.
It is probably one of the worst mortal sins you can commit!  It is making a mockery of true baptism.
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Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2019, 03:29:29 PM »
Roncalli was an interesting character.  He didn't care for Bugnini and shut him down, kicked him out of the Vatican ... after Pius XII had enabled him to experiment with the Mass.  I think that Roncalli liked the Traditional Mass for its aesthetics.
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Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2019, 03:30:54 PM »
Quote from: tdrev123 on November 07, 2019, 03:25:10 PM
It is probably one of the worst mortal sins you can commit!  It is making a mockery of true baptism.

Yeah, I've always had a problem with that practice.  Baptismal certificates are a very serious thing, it's like your ID Card as a Catholic and a member of Christ's body ... it's not something to mess with on behalf of the Jews.  But Pius XII always liked to pretend that he was an enlightened man.

I wonder how many of these Jews later used these to infiltrate the Church and get into seminaries and get ordained?
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2019, 03:35:46 PM »
Quote from: Giovanni Berto on November 07, 2019, 01:34:57 PM
He was the last truly catholic pope, but he certainly was very far from being a great one.

THIS^^^.  He was undoubtedly one of the worst legitimate popes in history.  He was the watershed that led directly to Vatican II.

1) opened the door to evolution
2) opened the door to NFP as Catholic birth control
3) started the first ecuŠ¼enical meetings
4) enabled Bugnini to begin his liturgical experimentations
5) did not defend Father Feeney against Cardinal Cushing's heresy, and so failed to defend EENS dogma, which led to Vatican II.  He had the opportunity to stand up for and reaffirm EENS in a way that would have precluded Vatican II
6) appointed, during his long reign, the vast majority of bishops who would later bring us Vatican II
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