I think that Pope Pius XII followed the spirit of his predecessor, Pope Pius X. He was so impressive that the chief rabbi of Rome converted to the Catholic Faith.I think that you do not think at all.
https://codoh.com/library/docuмent/2452/?lang=enThanks for the education. I have read many times Mary Ball Maritnez's book. Facts are facts.
This old article was written by Mary Ball Martinez. I knew before about how Pius XII was trying to help the Christ killers and he favored the allies, but the details are disturbing. Martinez shows how Roncalli was not on board with Pius XII dissent and betrayal of Catholics.
Something that has always troubled me is this fake certificate of baptism thing that Pius XII did to save the jews.It is probably one of the worst mortal sins you can commit! It is making a mockery of true baptism.
Isn't it against the 8th commandment?
He was the last truly catholic pope, but he certainly was very far from being a great one.
It is probably one of the worst mortal sins you can commit! It is making a mockery of true baptism.
He was the last truly catholic pope, but he certainly was very far from being a great one.
It is probably one of the worst mortal sins you can commit! It is making a mockery of true baptism.In emergency situations, you are allowed to bend the truth, to save lives or thwart evil. I doubt it was a mockery; its intent was good.
In emergency situations, you are allowed to bend the truth, to save lives or thwart evil. I doubt it was a mockery; its intent was good.
In emergency situations, you are allowed to bend the truth, to save lives or thwart evil. I doubt it was a mockery; its intent was good.Bend the truth? They were fake baptisms, that is a total lie. If fake baptisms are just bending the truth, then there are no lies.
Thanks for the education. I have read many times Mary Ball Maritnez's book. Facts are facts.I hope no one is dumb enough to believe Mrs Martinez... While the Pope may have helped some jews to migrate I highly doubt that he would have forged Birth certs. I bet the story is a hoax.. :cheers:
THIS^^^. He was undoubtedly one of the worst legitimate popes in history. He was the watershed that led directly to Vatican II.Pius XII defended Fr Feeney in the Encyclical Humani Generis-- the rest of the above mostly fantasy as well. Bugnini was a very deceptive man who did not reveal his true nature until after the Popes passing. The only thing i have found undesirable about Pius XII is that he had a little to much faith in Democracy. :chef:
1) opened the door to evolution
2) opened the door to NFP as Catholic birth control
3) started the first ecuмenical meetings
4) enabled Bugnini to begin his liturgical experimentations
5) did not defend Father Feeney against Cardinal Cushing's heresy, and so failed to defend EENS dogma, which led to Vatican II. He had the opportunity to stand up for and reaffirm EENS in a way that would have precluded Vatican II
6) appointed, during his long reign, the vast majority of bishops who would later bring us Vatican II
Pius XII defended Fr Feeney in the Encyclical Humani Generis--
I think that you do not think at all.In that same interview he also said, "I have always been on good terms with Jews." This is a direct contradiction to everything that the nαzι movement was was all about.
see https://www.jpost.com/Christian-News/Today-in-History-Pope-Pius-refused-to-support-a-Jєωιѕн-Jerusalem-442696 (https://www.jpost.com/Christian-News/Today-in-History-Pope-Pius-refused-to-support-a-Jєωιѕн-Jerusalem-442696)
"We are unable to favor this [Zionist] movement. We cannot prevent the Jews from going to Jerusalem, but we could never sanction it. The ground of Jerusalem, if it were not always sacred, has been sanctified by the life of Jesus Christ. As the head of the Church, I cannot answer you otherwise. The Jews have not recognized Our Lord; therefore, we cannot recognize the Jєωιѕн people.... If you come to Palestine and settle your people there, we will be ready with priests and churches to baptize all of you". (Pope St. Pius X)
THIS^^^. He was undoubtedly one of the worst legitimate popes in history. He was the watershed that led directly to Vatican II.Actually Pope Pius X presided over an ecuмenical meeting when he had that interview with Herzl.
1) opened the door to evolution
2) opened the door to NFP as Catholic birth control
3) started the first ecuмenical meetings
4) enabled Bugnini to begin his liturgical experimentations
5) did not defend Father Feeney against Cardinal Cushing's heresy, and so failed to defend EENS dogma, which led to Vatican II. He had the opportunity to stand up for and reaffirm EENS in a way that would have precluded Vatican II
6) appointed, during his long reign, the vast majority of bishops who would later bring us Vatican II
I have only heard the claim made. I have not read the first-hand docuмents. So perhaps it is not true. But I did not hear the claim first from Mrs. Martinez who uses it to indict him. I first heard it from Pope Pius XII's defenders. Upon accusations of him being "Hitler's Pope" supposedly the Vatican's archives from the World War II period were opened up and his defenders claimed that the Pope did everything possible to save Jews including the forging of docuмents and the hiding of them in monasteries and convents, etc. And this was used to defend the Pope. In those articles it was not suggested that lying and forgery were sins, it was just assumed that anything done to help a Jew was good. So I am not sure to what extent Pope Pius XII was aware of everything done in his name.It does not take much inquiry to see that he was the head of the whole effort. THAT is what the Pope Pius XII's defenders concluded and have been publishing since the Vatican archives were made public. To conclude the contrary, one would have to say that the Vatican totally lied.
In that same interview he also said, "I have always been on good terms with Jews." This is a direct contradiction to everything that the nαzι movement was was all about.Pope St. Pius X saying he is on good terms with the Jews does not equate with Pius XII's falsifying baptisms. The nαzι's have nothing to do with my comments. The Jews did not/do not consider that Puis X was on good terms with them, didn't you read my Jerusalem Post link? https://www.jpost.com/Christian-News/Today-in-History-Pope-Pius-refused-to-support-a-Jєωιѕн-Jerusalem-442696 (https://www.jpost.com/Christian-News/Today-in-History-Pope-Pius-refused-to-support-a-Jєωιѕн-Jerusalem-442696)
Roncalli was an interesting character. He didn't care for Bugnini and shut him down, kicked him out of the Vatican ... after Pius XII had enabled him to experiment with the Mass. I think that Roncalli liked the Traditional Mass for its aesthetics.It does make me wonder - was John XXIII even that bad a pope? I always assumed so because of the circuмstances of his election and his convocation of Vatican 2, but come to think of it I don't know of any particular things he did that were bad for the Church. He did call for Vatican 2, but it was barely open when he died and it seems to me that most of the innovations and talk of ecuмenism came after Paul VI took charge. Perhaps Vatican 2 would've taken a different course under John for all I know, but that's the thing - I don't. So I'm wondering if someone here could give a breakdown of the good and bad things he did in his pontificate.
Roncalli was an interesting character. He didn't care for Bugnini and shut him down, kicked him out of the Vatican ... after Pius XII had enabled him to experiment with the Mass. I think that Roncalli liked the Traditional Mass for its aesthetics.A broken clock is 100% correct twice a day.
It seems Roncalli was FMason. In case you haven't heard, the sect is condemned by Pope Leo XIII in the Encyclical Humanum Genus. :cheers:Are you sedevacantist?
https://codoh.com/library/docuмent/2452/?lang=enSaving Jews from dying and opposing the nαzιs Makes Pius XII bad? You are a malevolent fool.
This old article was written by Mary Ball Martinez. I knew before about how Pius XII was trying to help the Christ killers and he favored the allies, but the details are disturbing. Martinez shows how Roncalli was not on board with Pius XII dissent and betrayal of Catholics.
Saving Jews from dying and opposing the nαzιs Makes Pius XII bad? You are a malevolent fool.
Well, you could put it both ways as there were two sides to World War II and both committed great evils. You could just as truthfully say he was handing half of Europe over to the Godless Communists who killed millions of Christians and persecuted the Church causing millions more to leave the faith.All of Europe would have been swallowed up by the nαzιs. Perhaps much of the rest of the world as well. However, that is only one problem with the OP. Suggesting that The Pope saving lives, any lives, is somehow evil is at best stupid, and more likely malicious. Hence malevolent fool.
Saving Jews from dying and opposing the nαzιs Makes Pius XII bad? You are a malevolent fool.Saving jews from what? Do you actually believe in the h0Ɩ0h0αx? And the h0Ɩ0cαųst narrative didn't even show up until the 1960s and at the show trial Nuremberg. You think falsifying baptisms is Catholic? Jews are the enemies of Christ! Don't you think the Vatican could have done some to help catholics? Like support the Axis powers which were 80% catholic.
All of Europe would have been swallowed up by the nαzιs. Perhaps much of the rest of the world as well. However, that is only one problem with the OP. Suggesting that The Pope saving lives, any lives, is somehow evil is at best stupid, and more likely malicious. Hence malevolent fool.Hitler tried with all his might to not hurt the British Empire, he never wanted war with England.
Saving jews from what? Do you actually believe in the h0Ɩ0h0αx?There is a wide gap between the two issues here. I don't believe in the h0Ɩ0h0αx, but I also know that there were many Jews in desparate straits and in need of rescuing from evil forces. Not to say there were not evil Jews who brought much suffering into Germany, but there were innocent ones who were victims of circuмstances. I don't believe we can judge Pius XII byt the standards of scholarship and knowledge we have today. People were in need and he did what a Christian does in such circuмstances.
Actually Pope Pius X presided over an ecuмenical meeting when he had that interview with Herzl.
Yes, but we, and I as the head of the Church, cannot do this. There are two possibilities. Either the Jews will cling to their faith and continue to await the Messiah who, for us, has already appeared. In that case they will be denying the divinity of Jesus and we cannot help them. Or else they will go there without any religion, and then we can be even less favorable to them.The Jєωιѕн religion was the foundation of our own; but it was superseded by the teachings of Christ, and we cannot concede it any further validity. The Jews, who ought to have been the first to acknowledge Jesus Christ, have not done so to this day.
https://codoh.com/library/docuмent/2452/?lang=enShe is a horrible and untrustworthy authoress. She claimed that many popes were Freemasons and that Pope Pius IX was a Freemason. This had been refuted in his own lifetime and he was greatly offended by the accusation. She used Freemasonic writers to back up her claim instead of using Catholic authors. I wouldn’t touch her trashy books with a ten foot pole.
This old article was written by Mary Ball Martinez. I knew before about how Pius XII was trying to help the Christ killers and he favored the allies, but the details are disturbing. Martinez shows how Roncalli was not on board with Pius XII dissent and betrayal of Catholics.
She is a horrible and untrustworthy authoress. She claimed that many popes were Freemasons and that Pope Pius IX was a Freemason. This had been refuted in his own lifetime and he was greatly offended by the accusation. She used Freemasonic writers to back up her claim instead of using Catholic authors. I wouldn’t touch her trashy books with a ten foot pole.
Pope St. Pius X saying he is on good terms with the Jews does not equate with Pius XII's falsifying baptisms. The nαzι's have nothing to do with my comments. The Jews did not/do not consider that Puis X was on good terms with them, didn't you read my Jerusalem Post link? https://www.jpost.com/Christian-News/Today-in-History-Pope-Pius-refused-to-support-a-Jєωιѕн-Jerusalem-442696 (https://www.jpost.com/Christian-News/Today-in-History-Pope-Pius-refused-to-support-a-Jєωιѕн-Jerusalem-442696)It also places him in direct opposition to the nαzι social program.
Pope St. Pius X considered that he was on good terms because he was speaking the truth to them. He was honest. That is why he is a saint.
It does make me wonder - was John XXIII even that bad a pope? I always assumed so because of the circuмstances of his election and his convocation of Vatican 2, but come to think of it I don't know of any particular things he did that were bad for the Church. He did call for Vatican 2, but it was barely open when he died and it seems to me that most of the innovations and talk of ecuмenism came after Paul VI took charge. Perhaps Vatican 2 would've taken a different course under John for all I know, but that's the thing - I don't. So I'm wondering if someone here could give a breakdown of the good and bad things he did in his pontificate.The SSPX uses the missal of 1962, the missal that was promulgated by Pope John XXIII.
Well, you could put it both ways as there were two sides to World War II and both committed great evils. You could just as truthfully say he was handing half of Europe over to the Godless Communists who killed millions of Christians and persecuted the Church causing millions more to leave the faith.The nαzιs against the Communists is like Satan against Satan.
The nαzιs against the Communists is like Satan against Satan.Not true! nαzιs were fighting evil from all sides and did not start the war. They had every right to defend their country and people. Patton said we were fighting the wrong enemy!
She is a horrible and untrustworthy authoress. She claimed that many popes were Freemasons and that Pope Pius IX was a Freemason. This had been refuted in his own lifetime and he was greatly offended by the accusation. She used Freemasonic writers to back up her claim instead of using Catholic authors. I wouldn’t touch her trashy books with a ten foot pole.Excellent post. I have been trying to warn the Forum re: Mrs Martinez for a couple of years now. It should also be remembered that she is one of the libelers of Card Rampolla. For some reason, there are a few who believe her... :confused: