Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative  (Read 4750 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline tdrev123

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 592
  • Reputation: +360/-139
  • Gender: Male
Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
« Reply #30 on: November 08, 2019, 04:44:40 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Saving Jews from dying and opposing the nαzιs Makes Pius XII bad?  You are a malevolent fool.
    Saving jews from what?  Do you actually believe in the h0Ɩ0h0αx?  And the h0Ɩ0cαųst narrative didn't even show up until the 1960s and at the show trial Nuremberg.  You think falsifying baptisms is Catholic?  Jews are the enemies of Christ!  Don't you think the Vatican could have done some to help catholics? Like support the Axis powers which were 80% catholic.  

    Offline tdrev123

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 592
    • Reputation: +360/-139
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
    « Reply #31 on: November 08, 2019, 04:49:29 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • All of Europe would have been swallowed up by the nαzιs. Perhaps much of the rest of the world as well.  However, that is only one problem with the OP.  Suggesting that The Pope saving lives, any lives, is somehow evil is at best stupid, and more likely malicious.  Hence malevolent fool.
    Hitler tried with all his might to  not hurt the British Empire, he never wanted war with England.  
    And swallowed up?  You mean instead having half be communist and half non Christian countries?  As opposed to a regime which got rid of pornography and indecent shows, banned transgenderism, banned masonic societies, banned abortion, had the greatest and most just catholic economy known to man, supported ethnocentric countries, banned liberalism and communism.  
    You are the fool, read some books.  
    Quit being a brainwashed moron.  


    Offline Nadir

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 11934
    • Reputation: +7294/-500
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
    « Reply #32 on: November 08, 2019, 05:06:24 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Saving jews from what?  Do you actually believe in the h0Ɩ0h0αx?    
    There is a wide gap between the two issues here. I don't believe in the h0Ɩ0h0αx, but I also know that there were many Jews in desparate straits and in need of rescuing from evil forces. Not to say  there were not evil Jews who brought much suffering into Germany, but there were innocent ones who were victims of circuмstances. I don't believe we can judge Pius XII byt the standards of scholarship and knowledge we have today. People were in need and he did what a Christian does in such circuмstances.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 47962
    • Reputation: +28348/-5306
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
    « Reply #33 on: November 08, 2019, 05:17:24 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Actually Pope Pius X presided over an ecuмenical meeting when he had that interview with Herzl.

    That was no ecuмenical meeting, you slanderous baboon.  That was an audience he granted to Herzl.  Talking with a non-Catholic is not the same as an ecuмenical meeting.  Stop trying to tar and feather St. Pius X as some kind of precursor to the Vatican II heresiarchs.

    This was the audience at which St. Pius X REJECTED Herzl's plea that the Vatican support the Jews' retaking of the Holy Land.

    St. Pius X:
    Quote
    Yes, but we, and I as the head of the Church, cannot do this. There are two possibilities. Either the Jews will cling to their faith and continue to await the Messiah who, for us, has already appeared. In that case they will be denying the divinity of Jesus and we cannot help them. Or else they will go there without any religion, and then we can be even less favorable to them.

    The Jєωιѕн religion was the foundation of our own; but it was superseded by the teachings of Christ, and we cannot concede it any further validity. The Jews, who ought to have been the first to acknowledge Jesus Christ, have not done so to this day.

    Would Bergoglio ever say such a thing ... or even Pius XII for that matter?

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 4809
    • Reputation: +2944/-683
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
    « Reply #34 on: November 08, 2019, 06:27:05 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • https://codoh.com/library/docuмent/2452/?lang=en

    This old article was written by Mary Ball Martinez.  I knew before about how Pius XII was trying to help the Christ killers and he favored the allies, but the details are disturbing.  Martinez shows how Roncalli was not on board with Pius XII dissent and betrayal of Catholics.
    She is a horrible and untrustworthy authoress. She claimed that many popes were Freemasons and that Pope Pius IX was a Freemason. This had been refuted in his own lifetime and he was greatly offended by the accusation. She used Freemasonic writers to back up her claim instead of using Catholic authors. I wouldn’t touch her trashy books with a ten foot pole.
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?


    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 47962
    • Reputation: +28348/-5306
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
    « Reply #35 on: November 08, 2019, 06:30:09 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • She is a horrible and untrustworthy authoress. She claimed that many popes were Freemasons and that Pope Pius IX was a Freemason. This had been refuted in his own lifetime and he was greatly offended by the accusation. She used Freemasonic writers to back up her claim instead of using Catholic authors. I wouldn’t touch her trashy books with a ten foot pole.

    Unfortunately, there is a fair bit of truth in there.  It's a shame that it's blended in with the falsehoods.

    Offline poche

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 16729
    • Reputation: +1224/-4693
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
    « Reply #36 on: November 10, 2019, 11:17:11 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Pope St. Pius X saying he is on good terms with the Jews does not equate with Pius XII's falsifying baptisms. The nαzι's have nothing to do with my comments. The Jews did not/do not consider that Puis X was on good terms with them, didn't you read my Jerusalem Post link? https://www.jpost.com/Christian-News/Today-in-History-Pope-Pius-refused-to-support-a-Jєωιѕн-Jerusalem-442696

    Pope St. Pius X considered that he was on good terms because he was speaking the truth to them. He was honest. That is why he is a saint.
    It also places him in direct opposition to the nαzι social program.

    Offline poche

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 16729
    • Reputation: +1224/-4693
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
    « Reply #37 on: November 10, 2019, 11:18:31 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • It does make me wonder - was John XXIII even that bad a pope? I always assumed so because of the circuмstances of his election and his convocation of Vatican 2, but come to think of it I don't know of any particular things he did that were bad for the Church. He did call for Vatican 2, but it was barely open when he died and it seems to me that most of the innovations and talk of ecuмenism came after Paul VI took charge. Perhaps Vatican 2 would've taken a different course under John for all I know, but that's the thing - I don't. So I'm wondering if someone here could give a breakdown of the good and bad things he did in his pontificate.
    The SSPX uses the missal of 1962, the missal that was promulgated by Pope John XXIII.


    Offline poche

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 16729
    • Reputation: +1224/-4693
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
    « Reply #38 on: November 10, 2019, 11:19:38 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Well, you could put it both ways as there were two sides to World War II and both committed great evils. You could just as truthfully say he was handing half of Europe over to the Godless Communists who killed millions of Christians and persecuted the Church causing millions more to leave the faith.
    The nαzιs against the Communists is like Satan against Satan.

    Offline Mass12

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 23
    • Reputation: +10/-4
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
    « Reply #39 on: November 13, 2019, 07:34:04 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The nαzιs against the Communists is like Satan against Satan.
    Not true! nαzιs were fighting evil from all sides and did not start the war. They had every right to defend their country and people. Patton said we were fighting the wrong enemy!

    Offline roscoe

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 7687
    • Reputation: +646/-420
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
    « Reply #40 on: November 13, 2019, 12:56:44 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • She is a horrible and untrustworthy authoress. She claimed that many popes were Freemasons and that Pope Pius IX was a Freemason. This had been refuted in his own lifetime and he was greatly offended by the accusation. She used Freemasonic writers to back up her claim instead of using Catholic authors. I wouldn’t touch her trashy books with a ten foot pole.
    Excellent post. I have been trying to warn the Forum re: Mrs Martinez for a couple of years now. It should also be remembered that she is one of the libelers of Card Rampolla. For some reason, there are a few who believe her... :confused:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'