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Author Topic: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?  (Read 52826 times)

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Online Mithrandylan

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Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
« Reply #525 on: March 05, 2025, 12:22:23 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on March 05, 2025, 12:04:22 PM
    He defends smoking pot, when some of us have seen the bad effects of this practice. That's not the same thing as what you are saying. Why would someone need to get stoned in order to be healthy? I mean, really?
    He has clearly, regularly, and consistently maintained that the lawful use of marijuana depends on its temperate use. You're looking for a fight, not for understanding.
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    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #526 on: March 05, 2025, 12:22:38 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mark 79 on March 05, 2025, 12:18:22 PM
    Why do you persist in turning simple and carefully circuмscribed observations into a panoply of straw man arguments and Procrustean distortions?

    You managed to turn an appreciation of the Creator and His Creation into an accusation of "replacing" Him.

    Do you do this because of ill will or because you are truly incapable of honesty and logic?

    This thread is about asking if marijuana use is sinful for Catholics. That is, is smoking pot sinful for Catholics. You have turned it into something that it wasn't meant to be. 
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #527 on: March 05, 2025, 12:23:06 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mithrandylan on March 05, 2025, 12:22:23 PM
    He has clearly, regularly, and consistently maintained that the lawful use of marijuana depends on its temperate use. You're looking for a fight, not for understanding.

    Evidently, you have not followed all of these pot threads over the years.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #528 on: March 05, 2025, 12:31:26 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on March 05, 2025, 12:04:22 PM
    He defends smoking pot, when some of us have seen the bad effects of this practice. That's not the same thing as what you are saying. Why would someone need to get stoned in order to be healthy? I mean, really?

    Why??? Asked and answered repeatedly for at least 3 years

    Here is a representative fraction of the iderases and synmptoms that are treated successfully using MJ:

    AIDS/HIV
    ALS (Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis, Lou Gehrig's Disease)
    Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (ALS)
    Alzheimer's Disease
    Cachexia. Wasting syndrome
    Cancer
    Cardiovascular disease
    Crohns Disease
    Gastrointestinal Disorders
    Glaucoma
    Muscle Spasms
    Dystonia
    Pain
    Post traumatic Stress Disorder
    Nausea/Vomiting

    When someone dying of cancer in agonizing pain due to bone metastases do you pejoratively describe their opioid use as "getting stoned."

    Are you so traumatized by your personal experiences with marijuana that you have lost all empathy for suffering people?  It seems that in large measure, your empathy has been replaced by cruelty and derision.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #529 on: March 05, 2025, 12:34:42 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mark 79 on March 05, 2025, 12:31:26 PM
    Why??? Asked and answered repeatedly for at least 3 years

    Here is a representative fraction of the iderases and synmptoms that are treated successfully using MJ:

    AIDS/HIV
    ALS (Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis, Lou Gehrig's Disease)
    Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (ALS)
    Alzheimer's Disease
    Cachexia. Wasting syndrome
    Cancer
    Cardiovascular disease
    Crohns Disease
    Gastrointestinal Disorders

    Glaucoma

    Muscle Spasms
    Dystonia
    Pain

    Post traumatic Stress Disorder
    Nausea/Vomiting

    When someone dying of cancer in agonizing pain due to bone metastases do you pejoratively describe their opioid use as "getting stoned."

    Are you so traumatized by your personal experiences with marijuana that you have lost all empathy for suffering people?  It seems that in large measure, your empathy has been replaced by cruelty and derision.

    So most of the potheads in the world who smoke pot and are addicted to it and just want to be stoned are in reality treating one of the above diseases or disorders? That's too funny!

    :laugh1:
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #530 on: March 05, 2025, 12:38:40 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on March 05, 2025, 12:22:38 PM
    This thread is about asking if marijuana use is sinful for Catholics. That is, is smoking pot sinful for Catholics. You have turned it into something that it wasn't meant to be.
    Throughout this thread I have clearly stated that judicious medical and recreational use is licit under Catholic moral theology.  Under those explicit conditions marijuana use is NOT sinful for Catholics.

    I and others here have rationally and carefully offered both the research and the moral theology in defense of our position.

    Your response has been a series of ill-willed and irrational accusations, strawman arguments, and subjective anecdotes.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #531 on: March 05, 2025, 12:41:03 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mark 79 on March 05, 2025, 12:38:40 PM
    Throughout this thread I have clearly stated that judicious medical and recreational use is licit under Catholic moral theology.  Under those explicit conditions marijuana use is NOT sinful for Catholics.

    I and others here have rationally and carefully offered both the research and the moral theology in defense of our position.

    Your response has been a series of ill-willed and irrational accusations, strawman arguments, and subjective anecdotes.

    Go back and look at the OP of this thread from 2021. It is not about judicious or medicinal use of pot. It is about smoking pot as a pothead. You have defended potheadism in the past. I just can't recall where.

    You have ALWAYS distracted from the topic of potheadism by going on and on and on about "medicinal" pot, when that's not the topic or problem here.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #532 on: March 05, 2025, 12:43:41 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on March 05, 2025, 12:34:42 PM
    So most of the potheads in the world who smoke pot and are addicted to it and just want to be stoned are in reality treating one of the above diseases or disorders? That's too funny!

    :laugh1:
    Is this your idea of answering if MJ use is sinful for Catholics? :laugh1:
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    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #533 on: March 05, 2025, 12:46:06 PM »
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    • This is why communication is so silly between men and women.  They talk past each other all the time.
    Since I know Meg has blocked me and can't see this, (And maybe even Mithrandylan and Mark 79 may have blocked me, too.:jester:), I am just going to send this out to the internet.

    To answer the "Is Marijuana is sinful for Catholics" question.  The answer is, it depends.

    If you are using MJ to get high and escape from reality and your duty of state, then yes it is sinful.

    If you are using MJ as medicine, then it is not sinful.

    If you are using it for recreation, like you would use alcohol, then you have to know yourself well to determine the sinfulness.  Maybe the question also depends on the civil laws in play at the time of use.  

    I just thought of a tangent thread that might be interesting to discuss.  Maybe I will start it.:cowboy:

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    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #534 on: March 05, 2025, 12:47:20 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on March 05, 2025, 12:41:03 PM
    Go back and look at the OP of this tread from 2021. It is not about judicious or medicinal use of pot. It is about smoking pot as a pothead. You have defended potheadism in the past. I just can't recall where. You have always distracted from the topic of potheadism by going on and on and on about "medicinal" pot, when that's not the problem here.
    THIS thread asks if MJ use is sinful for Catholics.

    We have addressed that question for medicinal and recreational use. YOU have addressed neither with objective evidence.

    The 2021 thread began as a rant by Tradman. His raving was rebutted by research. His subjectivity was also rebutted by deconstructing his (and your) "31 points."
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #535 on: March 05, 2025, 12:50:34 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mark 79 on March 05, 2025, 12:47:20 PM
    THIS thread asks if MJ use is sinful for Catholics.

    We have addressed that question. YOU have not.

    The 2021 thread began as a rant by Tradman. His raving was rebutted by research. His subjectivity was also rebutted by deconstructing his (and your) "31 points."

    Wrong. This thread was started by a guy named Stanley in 2021. He was asking about a former forum member named Roscoe who admitted to smoking pot. Go back and take a look at the OP, okay? 
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #536 on: March 05, 2025, 12:51:46 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on March 05, 2025, 12:50:34 PM
    Wrong. This thread was started by a guy named Stanley in 2021. He was asking about a former forum member named Roscoe who admitted to smoking pot. Go back and take a look at the OP, okay?
    Excuse me. The 2021 thread did not escalate until Tradman  (and you) began raving.… as today you have again been raving. Also, there is nothing "former" about roscoe. He logged into CathInfo March 02, 2025, 12:31:19 AM https://www.cathinfo.com/profile/roscoe/ 

    THIS thread asks if MJ use is sinful for Catholics.

    We have addressed that question for medicinal and recreational use.

    As for narcotics and alcohol, judicious and proportionate medical and recreational use are licit under Catholic moral theology.

    YOU have addressed neither with objective evidence.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #537 on: March 05, 2025, 12:56:15 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mark 79 on March 05, 2025, 12:51:46 PM
    Excuse me. The 2021 thread did not escalate until Tradman  (and you) began raving.

    This thread wasn't about defending the judicial or medicinal use of pot. And yet you always distract away from the real subject by injecting your supposedly professional and authoritative opinion on the medicinal use, as if that's going to address the issue of people smoking pot because they just want to be stoned. 

    You get all upset and make all kinds of accusations when your amazing professional and authoritative opinions are not taken seriously. But we aren't required to take your opinions seriously. 
    Logged
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #538 on: March 05, 2025, 01:01:01 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on March 05, 2025, 12:56:15 PM
    This thread wasn't about defending the judicial or medicinal use of pot. And yet you always distract away from the real subject by injecting your supposedly professional and authoritative opinion on the medicinal use, as if that's going to address the issue of people smoking pot because they just want to be stoned.

    You get all upset and make all kinds of accusations when your amazing professional and authoritative opinions are not taken seriously. But we aren't required to take your opinions seriously.
    That is a lie.

    For several pages we (Lad, Mithrandylan, and myself) addressed recreational use.

    To summarize, the liceity of recreational use of MJ depends upon its risk/benefit ratio, its relative safety.  The medical research informs us that MJ is less toxic and more beneficial than alcohol, so… in allowing the recreational use of alcohol under Catholic moral theology, the case is even stronger for marijuana that its judicious recreational use is licit. Marijuana is safer and more beneficial than alcohol. The medical research is a necessary part of that determination.

    "judicial"???  Consult your dictionary, confer "judicious."

    Presenting medical research, quoting Jone's Moral Theology, and deconstructing your claims is "making accusations"??? Such self-serving hysteria!

    Oh, an apology is due. I mistakenly said "Tradman." I should have named Last Tradhican. Sorry for that mistake.
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    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #539 on: March 05, 2025, 01:56:02 PM »
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    • Quote from: Gray2023 on March 05, 2025, 12:46:06 PM
    Correction:  When people talk past each other, communication gets complicated.  I am sorry I am always making things about men-women interactions (I think just humans in general get attached to their own way of seeing things.)
    Since I know Meg has blocked me and can't see this, (And maybe even Mithrandylan and Mark 79 may have blocked me, too.:jester:), I am just going to send this out to the internet.

    To answer the "Is Marijuana is sinful for Catholics" question.  The answer is, it depends.

    If you are using MJ to get high and escape from reality and your duty of state, then yes it is sinful.

    If you are using MJ as medicine, then it is not sinful.

    If you are using it for recreation, like you would use alcohol, then you have to know yourself well to determine the sinfulness.  Maybe the question also depends on the civil laws in play at the time of use. 

    I just thought of a tangent thread that might be interesting to discuss.  Maybe I will start it.:cowboy:
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    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"
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