But I'm talking to someone who refuses truths about the nature of the Earth, so I suppose I shouldn't be surprised to see you running from the truth on this issue also. It's the same mindset: I embrace and admit the truth, whatever that means and wherever it leads. You find ways and excuses to deny it, so you can avoid being some kind of ostracised "fringe", shunned by The World, which for you is a fate worse than death. Fine. Good luck in the future when the great persecution starts. Hopefully you won't be one of the first Catholics to cave.

You should  have put "" around the word 'truths'. As in '.... refuse "truths" about the nature of the Earth....'. That way it shows you're not that pretentious to assume you are immune from error. You aren't.... Right? This isnt to say you don't believe that your position is correct, obviously. 

People shouldn't be concerned with being fringe, no. But just cause you aren't concerned, it doesn't make you right in whatever issue you decide to hold to, just cause it's perceived more "fringe" by the world. If that was the case sedes would have sway over your R&R position because they are certainly considered more fringe by the world. If they're right, it's not the fringe perception that makes them right. 

Seems like lots of trads insulate themselves - not without reason- to the point of  being willing to become disconnected with reality to prove to themselves just how willing they are to follow the truth "where ever it may lead". There are dangers to these times and those dangers don't just come from the world, they can come from our own fallen nature. 

People who like to waste time either won't or can't engage in the discussion so they attempt to discredit the other guy or change the subject or introduce little nothings that have no bearing.  I really don't have time for that. 

Won't discuss it? That is a LIE.

Meg asked for "a" study.

I posted dozens of studies, including reviews by the Institute of Medicine (IOM), National Academy of Science, and the University of California Center for Medical Cannabis Research, et al.

Meg looked at the titles and somehow channeled that the studies focused on benefits and not enough on "side-effects." —complete manure.  The IOM admitted their bias was against MJ, but like the AMA, was forced by the evidence to support medical MJ.

You, on the other hand stated that your "experience" was more important than the studies.

How is anyone supposed to have a rational discussion with anyone, like the $%^& rabbis, who just waves his/her hand and discards the evidence?

Worse, you and Meg both, like $%^&* rabbis, used a standard that you would apply apply against MJ ("sober") that you would not apply against alcohol. Double-standard.

Called on that, like you, Meg invoked her "experience" and her charism of reading the interior disposition of MJ users, as proving her "opinions."

What a joke, both of you, like a pair of $%^&* rabbis.

To write a series of 8 articles, I spent almost a year reviewing the peer-reviewed literature and that changed my previous opposition to MJ. Once again, here's my bibliography from that work.

It is current to 2011. Because the evidence was so solid, I have had no need to re-visit the literature for a deep-dive.

*******


Important reviews
University of California Center for Medical Cannabis Research—2010 Report to the Legislature
http://www.cmcr.ucsd.edu/images/pdfs/CMCR_REPORT_FEB17.pdf
Review on clinical studies with cannabis and cannabinoids 2005-2009. Hazecamp A and Grotenhermen F. Cannabinoids 2010;5(special issue):1-21.
www.cannabis-med.org/data/pdf/en_2010_01_special.pdf
Cannabinoids in medicine: A review of their therapeutic potential. Amar MB. Journal of Ethnopharmacology 105 (2006) 1–25.
http://www.ucla.edu.ve/dmedicin/departamentos/fisiologia/cannabinoidsRevPatologias.pdf
Emerging Clinical Applications for Cannabis and Cannabinoids: A Review of the Recent Scientific Literature, 2000 – 2010. Armentano P. NORML Foundation, Washington DC 2010.
http://norml.org/pdf_files/NORML_Clinical_Applications_for_Cannabis_and_Cannabinoids.pdf
Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base. National Academy of Science Institute of Medicine, 1999
http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=6376
popularized in: Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=R1
AIDS/HIV
University of California Center for Medical Cannabis Research—2010 Report to the Legislature
http://www.cmcr.ucsd.edu/images/pdfs/CMCR_REPORT_FEB17.pdf
Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV)
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7485
“Marijuana and AIDS” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=86
ALS (Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis, Lou Gehrig's Disease)
Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (ALS)
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7004
Alzheimer's Disease
Alzheimer's Disease
http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7003
Cachexia. Wasting syndrome
See sections 3.1 and 3.2 of Cannabinoids in medicine: A review of their therapeutic potential. Amar MB. Journal of Ethnopharmacology 105 (2006) 1–25.
http://www.ucla.edu.ve/dmedicin/departamentos/fisiologia/cannabinoidsRevPatologias.pdf
Cancer
Gliomas/Cancer
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7008
“Marijuana and Cancer” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=95
Cannabis and Cannabinoids (PDQ®). National Cancer Institute. 2011.
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/healthprofessional/page1
Cardiovascular disease
The Potential for Clinical Use of Cannabinoids in Treatment
of Cardiovascular Diseases. Durst R and Lotan C. Cardiovascular Therapeutics 2011 Feb;29(1):17-22. doi: 10.1111/j.1755-5922.2010.00233.x. Epub 2010 Oct 14.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20946323
The emerging role of the endocannabinoid system in cardiovascular disease. Pacher P, Steffens S. Semin Immunopathol. 2009 Jun;31(1):63-77. Epub 2009 Apr 9.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/a04103g160h16450/fulltext.pdf
Cannabinoid receptors in atherosclerosis. Steffens S, Mach F. Curr Opin Lipidol. 2006 Oct;17(5):519-26.
http://journals.lww.com/co-lipidology/Abstract/2006/10000/Cannabinoid_receptors_in_atherosclerosis.5.aspx
Cannabinoid receptors in acute and chronic complications of atherosclerosis. Mach F, Montecucco F, Steffens S. Br J Pharmacol. 2008 January; 153(2): 290–298.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2219535/pdf/0707517a.pdf
Endocannabinoids and cannabinoid receptors in ischaemia-reperfusion injury and preconditioning. Pacher P, Haskó G. Br J Pharmacol. 2008 Jan;153(2):252-62. Epub 2007 Nov 19.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/sj.bjp.0707582/pdf
The role of the endocannabinoid system in atherosclerosis. Mach F, Steffens S. J Neuroendocrinol. 2008 May;20 Suppl 1:53-7.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2826.2008.01685.x/pdf
Cardiovascular Effects of Cannabis | Medicinal Cannabis Information. Independent Drug Monitoring Unit, United Kingdom, undated
http://www.idmu.co.uk/canncardio.htm
Crohns Disease
Gastrointestinal Disorders
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7009
Endocannabinoid sysytem
The Endocannabinoid System as an Emerging Target of Pharmacotherapy. National Institute of Health: Pacher P, Bátkai S, Kunos G. Pharmacol Rev. 2006 Sep;58(3):389-462.
http://pharmrev.aspetjournals.org/content/58/3/389.full.pdf
Endocrine disease, diabetes
The emerging role of the endocannabinoid system in endocrine regulation and energy balance. Pagotto U, Marsicano G, Cota D, Lutz B, Pasquali R. Endocr Rev. 2006 Feb;27(1):73-100. Epub 2005 Nov 23.
http://fk.uwks.ac.id/elib/Arsip/Departemen/Biokimia/The%20Emerging%20Role%20of%20the%20Endocannabinoid%20System.pdf
Fibromyalgia
Nabilone for the Treatment of Pain in Fibromyalgia. Skrabek RQ, Galimova L, Ethans K, Perry D. J Pain. 2008 Feb;9(2):164-73. Epub 2007 Nov 5.
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:9gDyCVhqJSMJ:files.meetup.com/404848/2008_Nabilone-for-the-Treatment-of-Pain-in-Fibromyalgia.pdf+Nabilone+for+the+Treatment+of+Pain+in+Fibromyalgia&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjFGavzxEJkBjsOj_YyWPHuo5PRG034PLna8X6n3sXGT696PVuaEH15HF07xVpfV10wLPfon8-nZoD0RcJfU6LInnuqHOGpKDECN4oQ6OWBgGgwXWckH2QB31FTn1BZn0KX9U7A&sig=AHIEtbQlDN8uMzxJIm6KKL0POTJdhmbsvg
Delta-9-THC based monotherapy in fibromyalgia patients on experimentally induced pain, axon reflex flare, and pain relief. Schley M, Legler A, Skopp G, Schmelz M, Konrad C, Rukwied R. Curr Med Res Opin. 2006 Jul;22(7):1269-76.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16834825
Fibromyalgia
http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7007
Glaucoma
American Glaucoma Society position statement: Marijuana and the treatment of glaucoma. American Glaucoma Society, Prepared by Henry Jampel, M.D., M.H.S., August 10, 2009
http://www.americanglaucomasociety.net/associations/5224/files/Marijuana%20and%20Glaucoma%20august%2030_BOD%20Approved%2010.23.09.pdf
Marijuana and Glaucoma” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=124
Hepatitis C
Hepatitis C
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7010
Marijuana effects, drug levels, DUI
Marijuana effect and delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol plasma level. Chiang CWN and Barnett G. Clinical Pharmacology and Therapeutics 1984 Aug;36(2):234-8.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6086207
Contact highs and urinary cannabinoids excretion after passive exposure to marijuana smoke. Cone EJ and Johnson RE. Clinical Pharmacology and Therapeutics 1986 Sep;40(3):247-56.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3017628
Do delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol concentrations indicate recent use in chronic cannabis users? Karschner EL, Schwilke EW, Lowe RH, Darwin WD, Pope HG, Herning R, Cadet JL, Huestis MA. Addiction. 2009 Dec;104(12):2041-8. Epub 2009 Oct 5.
http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/reprint/49/7/1114
Developing limits for driving under cannabis. Grotenhermen F, Leson G, Berghaus G, Drummer OH, Krüger HP, Longo M, Moskowitz H, Perrine B, Ramaekers JG, Smiley A, Tunbridge R. Addiction 2007 Dec;102(12):1910-7. Epub 2007 Oct 4.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17916224
Urinary cannabinoid detection times after controlled oral administration of delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol to humans. Gustafson RA, Levine B, Stout PR, Klette KL, George MP, Moolchan ET, Huestis MA. Clin Chem. 2003 Jul;49(7):1114-24.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12816908
Editorial: Practical Challenges to Positive Drug Tests for Marijuana. ElSohly MA. Clin Chem. 2003 Jul;49(7):1037-8.
http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/reprint/49/7/1037
Dose related risk of motor vehicle crashes after cannabis use. Ramaekers JG, Berghaus G, van Laar M, Drummer OH. Drug Alcohol Depend. 2004 Feb 7;73(2):109-19.
http://www.ukcia.org/research/DoseRelatedRiskOfCrashes.pdf
Tolerance and cross-tolerance to neurocognitive effects of THC and alcohol in heavy cannabis users. Ramaekers JG, Theunissen EL, de Brouwer M, Toennes SW, Moeller MR, Kauert G. Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2011 Mar;214(2):391-401. Epub 2010 Oct 30.
http://www.cannabistherapyinstitute.com/bills/dui/raemakers.etal.pdf
Cannabis and Driving: A Scientific and Rational Review. Armentano P. NORML Foundation, Washington DC 2010
http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7459
Sex differences in the effects of marijuana on simulated driving performance. Anderson BM, Rizzo M, Block RI, Pearlson GD, O'Leary DS. J Psychoactive Drugs. 2010 Mar;42(1):19-30.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3033009/
Effects of THC on driving performance, physiological state and subjective feelings relative to alcohol. Ronen A, Gershon P, Drobiner H, Rabinovich A, Bar-Hamburger R, Mechoulam R, Cassuto Y, Shinar D. Accid Anal Prev. 2008 May;40(3):926-34. Epub 2007 Nov 26.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18460360
Muscle Spasms
Dystonia
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7006
“Marijuana and Muscle Spasticity” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=106
Nausea
See sections 3.1 of Cannabinoids in medicine: A review of their therapeutic potential. Amar MB. Journal of Ethnopharmacology 105 (2006) 1–25.
http://www.ucla.edu.ve/dmedicin/departamentos/fisiologia/cannabinoidsRevPatologias.pdf
Pain
University of California Center for Medical Cannabis Research—2010 Report to the Legislature
http://www.cmcr.ucsd.edu/images/pdfs/CMCR_REPORT_FEB17.pdf
Chronic Pain
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7786
“Marijuana and Pain” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=77#
Post traumatic Stress Disorder
Cannabinoid receptor activation in the basolateral amygdala blocks the effects of stress on the conditioning and extinction of inhibitory avoidance. Ganon-Elazar E, Akirav I. J Neurosci. 2009 Sep 9;29(36):11078-88.
http://www.jneurosci.org/content/29/36/11078.full.pdf+html
[Extinction of emotional response as a novel approach of pharmacotherapy of anxiety disorders]. Lehner M, Wisłowska-Stanek A, Płaznik A. Psychiatr Pol. 2009 Nov-Dec;43(6):639-53.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20209877
The Use of a Synthetic Cannabinoid in the Management of Treatment‐Resistant Nightmares in Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). Fraser GA. CNS Neurosci Ther. 2009 Winter;15(1):84-8.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1755-5949.2008.00071.x/pdf
Public policy
Harm reduction-the cannabis paradox. Melamede R. Harm Reduct J. 2005 Sep 22;2:17.
http://www.harmreductionjournal.com/content/pdf/1477-7517-2-17.pdf
Seizures
See sections 3.7 of Cannabinoids in medicine: A review of their therapeutic potential. Amar MB. Journal of Ethnopharmacology 105 (2006) 1–25.
http://www.ucla.edu.ve/dmedicin/departamentos/fisiologia/cannabinoidsRevPatologias.pdf
“Marijuana and Neurological Disorders” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=115

Apparently, and surprisingly, this is a hotly debated issue?

Well, that being the case, I'll just make my comment and move on:

There's nothing wrong with having a few drinks and getting a LITTLE tipsy (Even the Bible says "Wine doth gladden the heart," and therefore being a little tipsy can't even be a venial sin).

Drinking would become venial when done intemperately, or mortal when done to the point of surrendering the rational faculty.

But as regards marijuana -and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong- for the last 30 years, the strength of it is such that, unlike alcohol, your faculty is severely modified and distorted after only a couple puffs.  Even for daily user addicts who are accustomed to its effects, its not that it no longer has a severe affect upon them, or that they have become tolerant to it, but rather that they have become acccustomed to long-term distortion of their rational faculty.

I believe they are AT LEAST in the same (or worse) state of mind as a drunken man, and nobody disputes that total drunkenness is mortal. 

As for the real or alleged health benefits of marijuana, I find that completely irrelevant to the question of its morality (and besides, it is available in non-euphoric form anyway).

Crack, speed, and meth are probably good for weight loss, since they speed the metabolism and suppresses the appetite, but that doesn't make them moral.

Flame away!

PS: I think modern man is afflicted by misery, and this accounts for even some Catholics defending marijuana use: They want something to kill the pain, and take a break from reality.  But if true, doesn't that prove the point?

Anecdotal evidence in scientific inquiry is only useful in identifying possible research leads.

In the case of your (plural) pothead relatives, that research lead shibboleth has been so thoroughly examined and your (plural) hypothesis rejected that the medical establishment has begrudgingly acknowledged that the medical benefits outweigh the medical risks per se.

Certainly there are some people of weakened mental makeup, perverted morality, and/or raised in dysfunctional families. Such people are indeed at increased risk of MJ and alcohol and pornography abuse and more likely to have marital breakup, criminality, and sinfulness. Consideration of such propensities should be part of the risk/benefit calculus before embarking on MJ use.

I advocate MJ's proper medical use. Recreationally, I'd rather see someone smoke MJ than drink alcohol. In no rational world is that a call for anyone lay around smoking weed all day and then spend all night at an orgy.

Put in laymen’s terms: those people were already crap people without the pot. It would’ve made not too much difference. 

Thanks, Mark. For your balanced assessment. 

On a side note, SSPX priests classify the use of CBD, Delta 8 and THC all in one. With a doctor’s prescription it is licit. Otherwise, all are potentially mortally sinful. 

Interestingly, the exhaustive list given earlier in this thread could be equally applied in the same fashion to the witchbox (Internet).

On a side note, SSPX priests classify the use of CBD, Delta 8 and THC all in one. With a doctor’s prescription it is licit. Otherwise, all are potentially mortally sinful.

What does "potentially mortally" sinful mean?  Doctor's prescription means nothing to me.  You could get a doctor's prescription and still have it be mortally sinful.  Let's say you're faking a condition of some kind.  Conversely, if you can't get to a doctor and someone has major factures and trauma and are in unbearable pain, you can use these substances without any doctor's prescription.

And how can they possibly include CBD into the mix?  CBD doesn't make people high and is legal almost everywhere.  Moral consideration is whether you've lost control of our faculties.  Interestingly, CBD can offset and mitigate the "high-producing effects" of THC.

I have not read any of the studies, nor do I care one iota about any studies that say MJ is Ok to use, morally or physically. I am now in my late 60's and have seen first hand what marijuana does to people, and today the stuff is 10x more potent. Marijuana makes people lazy, they lose all drive. I would not defend its use because then my children will interpret that as that I am OK with it. Marijuana is excellent for one thing, and that is for seducing young women, a lot quicker than alcohol. Those of you defending MJ will likely have your daughters seduced with it and it will be your fault for not seeing your own stupidity.

The same applies to alcohol, it just takes a little more work to use it to seduce.

I consider both useless, and do not have the time to waste using them for any reason. MJ and alcohol make one an old man in their 30's. I got married at 47 with a girl that was 25, I could NEVER have done that if I had not been a young man.

But that's just me. To each his own.