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Author Topic: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?  (Read 53838 times)

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Offline Meg

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Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
« Reply #75 on: January 01, 2022, 03:16:03 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mark 79 on January 01, 2022, 03:15:31 PM
    Your objectively evident double-standard makes you a (((Behar))).

    Then you are judging me by the same standards that you accuse me of doing. You make it personal, as you often do. At least I have not resorted to personal attacks. 
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #76 on: January 01, 2022, 03:20:05 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on January 01, 2022, 03:16:03 PM
    Then you are judging me by the same standards that you accuse me of doing. You make it personal, as you often do. As if that's going to change the argument.
    Rubbish.

    I read and understand YOUR statements.


    YOU give the benefit of the doubt to drinkers ("not necessarily" [to get high]), but YOU deny that benefit to MJ smokers ("overused," "an excuse" [to get high]).

    I have not presumed to condemn anyone's intentions, but have stuck with the facts:
    (1) MJ is less toxic and more beneficial than EtOH (and the risks are manageable)
    (2) MJ use falls under the same moral restraints as EtOH, avoidance  of undue risk physically and spiritually.

    If you think I have divined someone's interior disposition, quote me verbatim, (((Behar))).
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #77 on: January 01, 2022, 03:23:51 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mark 79 on January 01, 2022, 03:20:05 PM
    Rubbish.

    I read and understand YOUR statements.


    You give the benefit of the doubt to drinkers ("not necessarily" [to get high]), but deny that benefit to MJ smokers ("overused," "an excuse" [to get high]).

    I have not presumed to condemn anyone's intentions, but have stuck with the facts:
    (1) MJ is less toxic and more beneficial than EtOH (and the risks are manageable)
    (2) MJ use falls under the same moral restraints as EtOH, avoidance  of undue risk physically and spiritually.

    If you think I have divined someone's interior disposition, quote me verbatim, (((Behar))).


    I'm going to give you the last word on the subject, Mark, since you are obviously upset and angry, I can see that I'm just making it worse. I do not believe that pot and alcohol are on the same level, for reasons I've ALREADY cited, and at least one SSPX priest has said the same in a sermon, so I'm not alone there. 
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #78 on: January 01, 2022, 03:24:50 PM »
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    • YOUR attacks on the intentions of OTHER are certainly a personal judgement.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #79 on: January 01, 2022, 03:29:16 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mark 79 on January 01, 2022, 03:24:50 PM
    YOUR attacks on the intentions of OTHER are certainly a personal judgement.

    Just one more question: did you finally run out of downvotes for me? Because very few of my posts are downvoted on this thread. That's unusual.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #80 on: January 01, 2022, 03:34:10 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on January 01, 2022, 03:23:51 PM
    I'm going to give you the last word on the subject, Mark, since you are obviously upset and angry, I can see that I'm just making it worse. I do not believe that pot and alcohol are on the same level, for reasons I've ALREADY cited, and at least one SSPX priest has said the same in a sermon, so I'm not alone there.
    What a joke.

    You are welcome to your "beliefs" even when they are unjustified. I don't give a hoot whether or not you misinterpret the state of knowledge about MJ & EtOH. AT your request I provided you with dozens of studies contradicting your debunked "beliefs," including reviews by the Institute of Medicine, National Academy of Science, and the University of California. You are welcome to ignore all of it.  You can stick your fingers in your ears, close your eyes, and shout "Nyah, nyah, nyah" all you want.

    BUT:

    I do find it offensive that you presume to judge the interior dispositions of others. You cannot read another's heart, mind, or soul.  To impugn the intentions of others is a judgment on ANOTHER PERSON'S interior disposition. Ask your favorite priest about THAT.

    Yeah, "at least one SSPX priest." Are you referring to a former policeman who could have prevented serious crimes, but did not because he presumed the intentions of the victim who reported the crimes (just trying to avoid summer camp)?

    I have discussed these issues with other SSPX priests and they find no fault with medical use.  The topic of recreational use never came up.

    (((Behar)))
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    Offline Carissima

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #81 on: January 01, 2022, 04:08:14 PM »
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    • lf I were on the fence about Catholics and smoking MJ recreationally I would ask myself, ‘If MJ was legal in my State, would I sit down and smoke a bowl or joint with my grown son or daughter who just came of age?’
    Why, or why not?
    Would I smoke it in front of a five year old? 
    Why or why not?
    Would I offer some to my priest if he were visiting my home? 
    Why, or why not? 
    (And I mention the legal aspect because some may blame the stigma it has on its illegal use in some places.)

    I have a son who is 21, a responsible young man, he has never touched the stuff. Even though we have family members who use it frequently. 
    I could not imagine bringing something like recreational MJ into his life. There are enough spiritual pitfalls laid out for him already.

    Can I picture myself enjoying a glass of wine while my five year old plays nearby? Yes definitely.
    Smoking a joint? Um, no. 
    Would I allow a friend of mine do it in front of any of my children? Negative. 

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    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #82 on: January 01, 2022, 05:33:44 PM »
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    • Quote from: Carissima on January 01, 2022, 04:08:14 PM
    lf I were on the fence about Catholics and smoking MJ recreationally I would ask myself, ‘If MJ was legal in my State, would I sit down and smoke a bowl or joint with my grown son or daughter who just came of age?’
    Why, or why not?
    Would I smoke it in front of a five year old?
    Why or why not?
    Would I offer some to my priest if he were visiting my home?
    Why, or why not?
    (And I mention the legal aspect because some may blame the stigma it has on its illegal use in some places.)

    I have a son who is 21, a responsible young man, he has never touched the stuff. Even though we have family members who use it frequently.
    I could not imagine bringing something like recreational MJ into his life. There are enough spiritual pitfalls laid out for him already.

    Can I picture myself enjoying a glass of wine while my five year old plays nearby? Yes definitely.
    Smoking a joint? Um, no.
    Would I allow a friend of mine do it in front of any of my children? Negative.
    Oh yea, puff the magic dragon. Light up the kids. Huff the steam roller. Pass the joint. Fire up the bong and have a brutal session. It's herbal, natural, good for you, kills cancer and will make everybody saints. :facepalm:  
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    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #83 on: January 01, 2022, 05:58:45 PM »
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    • Quote from: Tradman on January 01, 2022, 05:33:44 PM
    Oh yea, puff the magic dragon. Light up the kids. Huff the steam roller. Pass the joint. Fire up the bong and have a brutal session. It's herbal, natural, good for you, kills cancer and will make everybody saints. :facepalm: 

    Since you need to resort to such blatant straw man arguments, you have only an opinion and remember… opinions are like… um… er… uh… noses; everybody has one.

    I provided dozens of verifiable references (including a review of all the available literature by the National Academy of Science).


    :facepalm:

    P.S. I made this with someone else in mind, but expected it would remain useful.


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    Offline Carissima

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #84 on: January 01, 2022, 06:43:15 PM »
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    • Quote from: Tradman on January 01, 2022, 05:33:44 PM
    Oh yea, puff the magic dragon. Light up the kids. Huff the steam roller. Pass the joint. Fire up the bong and have a brutal session. It's herbal, natural, good for you, kills cancer and will make everybody saints. :facepalm: 
    I wonder, are there parents out there that do this?
    Do mom and dad hide in the basement and puff while the kids play upstairs? Or do they roll em’ up on the living room coffee table? 
    What age do they think is best for exposing children to the inhaling of this ‘natural’ mood altering substance? Toddler? Teen?
    Is the second hand smoke safe for children as well?



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    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #85 on: January 01, 2022, 07:06:17 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mark 79 on January 01, 2022, 05:58:45 PM
    Since you need to resort to such blatant straw man arguments, you have only an opinion and remember… opinions are like… um… er… uh… noses; everybody has one.

    I provided dozens of verifiable references (including a review of all the available literature by the National Academy of Science).


    :facepalm:

    P.S. I made this with someone else in mind, but expected it would remain useful.



    My experience is as good as your references. You cringe at my depiction, but why?  You think it's fine to smoke, then it should be fine to smoke with family. Teenagers? Little kids? Start 'em young so they can carry on well. May as well blitz 'em because you start smoking and it somehow winds up there for some people. Obviously, they ought to know how to hang.  No worries from you, only ridicule for those who have a problem with all of this. No concern for people who continue on to bigger drugs. I wonder if you think it will assist with sanctity?
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    Offline Prayerful

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #86 on: January 01, 2022, 07:20:28 PM »
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    • Quote from: roscoe on December 25, 2021, 11:23:12 AM
    Columbus proved that E is sphere... although he suspected such before the first voyage. :popcorn:
    That'd be Magellan, or the officer of his who completed the voyage as he died, surely? Columbus found a continent hitherto only visited by some Norse and maybe some Bristol fishermen seeking herring shoals. It was something long understood, but perhaps not proven beyond matters like the curvature of the ocean floor. There was even an accurate estimate of the earth's circuмference at 250,000 stades, done with arc measurement method, which used the shifting position of the star Canopus and the local curvature of the surface. Columbus disagreed, being certain the Indies would be nearer. Flat earth anyhow is surely a troll of some sort, perhaps designed to mock Catholics. No serious, reasonable man could hold that position. Even historically, no literal person really claimed the earth was flat barring perhaps the eccentric Cosmas Indicopleustes, a credulous sixth century merchant, who sailed the Monsoon propelled Egypt-India seas route, but perhaps he did not mean it literally. 
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    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #87 on: January 01, 2022, 07:38:49 PM »
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    • Quote from: Prayerful on January 01, 2022, 07:20:28 PM
    That'd be Magellan, or the officer of his who completed the voyage as he died, surely? Columbus found a continent hitherto only visited by some Norse and maybe some Bristol fishermen seeking herring shoals. It was something long understood, but perhaps not proven beyond matters like the curvature of the ocean floor. There was even an accurate estimate of the earth's circuмference at 250,000 stades, done with arc measurement method, which used the shifting position of the star Canopus and the local curvature of the surface. Columbus disagreed, being certain the Indies would be nearer. Flat earth anyhow is surely a troll of some sort, perhaps designed to mock Catholics. No serious, reasonable man could hold that position. Even historically, no literal person really claimed the earth was flat barring perhaps the eccentric Cosmas Indicopleustes, a credulous sixth century merchant, who sailed the Monsoon propelled Egypt-India seas route, but perhaps he did not mean it literally.
    At one time, all people believed earth to be flat.  Flat earth models were placed in Catholic bibles even in this century.  Your assessment is not based in fact.  There is more to know.  Keep researching.  
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    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #88 on: January 01, 2022, 10:14:17 PM »
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    • Quote from: Tradman on January 01, 2022, 07:06:17 PM
    My experience is as good as your references. 
    Classic. Mind if I add that here?: https://www.logicalfallacies.org/
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    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #89 on: January 01, 2022, 10:15:44 PM »
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    • Quote from: Tradman on January 01, 2022, 07:38:49 PM
    At one time, all people believed earth to be flat.  Flat earth models were placed in Catholic bibles even in this century.  Your assessment is not based in fact.  There is more to know.  Keep researching. 
    His experience trumps your facts.


    :laugh2:
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