I had a discussion with a Novus Ordo FOCUS missionary at the college I go to. I am currently involved in a Bible study with him and another student, since I thought it would be a good way to make friends on a "Catholic" college campus. Feels pretty lonely since it basically functions like a worldly public university, but has some Catholic imagery here and there, and even a beautiful small chapel. Prior to this meeting, I had sent him several videos on Quo Primum to look at in his free time, since the topic of the traditional latin mass came up in our previous discussion.
I explained to him in the most charitable way possible that I was not okay with going to the Novus Ordo Mass, using Quo Primum and Auctorem Fidei to back up my argument, as well as bringing up what the late Fr. Hesse had to say about these docuмents. Like Fr. Hesse, I take the position that the NO mass is probably valid but illicit.
Today he invited me to meet with him, and we continued our discussion on the NO. He told me that he had watched some of the videos that I had sent him, and had even ended up researching the SSPX position on the issue. Thankfully, he did not repeat the absurd claim that the Society is in schism with Rome. The conversation inevitably veered into Church Authority, and this where things got a little more tense. He ended up saying that if the modern Church approves of the NO, then he has no reason to question it. I found this perplexing, and brought up many of the problems of the JPII papacy and the current Francis pontificate to try to get him to realize that he cannot trust these churchmen. Sadly, it didn't seem to have an effect on him. For example, I pointed out the incident where JPII kissed the Koran. He claimed that maybe JPII didn't mean to show that he approved of Islam, and that could mean something different to Middle Easterners. I replied by saying that even if that were true, JPII must have known that this would scandalize the millions of Catholics in the West. He then said that we can't judge the pope's intentions, and even quoted PF by saying "Who am I to judge?". There were several more problematic things I brought up (PF pulling the ring away, Assisi prayer meeting, etc.) but he basically gave the same response for each one. Canonizations also briefly came up, when I was asked if JPII is a saint. I said that if the Church said that he's in heaven, then he probably is there. I also added that I had doubts about his canonization, since he committed many publicly, and was cut off with the accusation that I "think that I know better than the Church". I've read up on the issue of Newchurch canonizations, but would definitely appreciate more clarity on the issue.
I pointed out that we can judge the actions of the pope, and should not follow him into error/heresy, and that there have been heretical popes before. He agreed with this, but strangely said that he would rather follow PF, since he could not believe that God could put us in a position where we don't have to listen to the modern church hierarchy. He also added that I should not listen to Fr. Hesse/Archbishop Lefebvre, since they may not have had a "proper interpretation" of Church Tradition, and that we should instead listen to the modern Magisterium, and the pope. I was unsure of how to address the modern Magisterium, since it's a topic I haven't looked into that much. But, I basically gave the reply that we cannot trust the Magisterium if it is made up of modernists. I would like more info on the Magisterium, links would be very much appreciated.
He also claimed that Quo Primum did not bind future popes, which is false, but I didn't know how to refute him there. I had sent him the papalencylicals.net version of Quo Primum, so maybe there is something wrong with that translation. The discussion ended on decent terms, but I could not help but feel legitimately angry during and after this conversation due to hearing such blatant nonsense. Throughout the conversation I made sure to ask the Lord to give me charity, since I didn't want this to turn into a shouting match. Some additional info: this missionary was educated at Steubenville, and told me that he had studied modernism/papal docuмents. He is also a believer in Medjugorje, and claims that 10 of those "apparitions" have been approved.
With all of this said, I pray that this man can see through the lies and accept the truth.
I ask for all of your advice on what to do with this issue, and request your prayers as well. I'll pray for all of you too.