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Author Topic: Flat Earth-curious  (Read 4749 times)

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Offline Anne Evergreen

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Re: Flat Earth-curious
« Reply #150 on: January 10, 2022, 08:36:59 PM »
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  • LOL 

    That's too complicated for me!

    I just want a simple answer.

    Average person on the beach watching average ship go over curve.

    How far out?
    Then why did you ask for details? There is no "average" scenario of which you speak. You have to have a point of reference to DO the math and physics involved, which is why I didn't want to get into this stuff.

    Everything is relative to something else. An "average" beach in North America is different than an "average" beach in Australia. An "average" curve on a fastball is different than an "average" curve on a golf swing. When I take out my camera, an "average" picture with automatic exposure is different than one with manual exposure.

    There really is no such thing as average for your scenario. You need to figure out solid and stable objects to work from and allow for different environmental situations that can alter your math. That is why I gave the height of the tree, the sea level and so on.

    "The world is thy ship, and not thy home."--The Little Flower

    Offline Miser Peccator

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    Re: Flat Earth-curious
    « Reply #151 on: January 10, 2022, 09:02:54 PM »
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  • Then why did you ask for details? There is no "average" scenario of which you speak. You have to have a point of reference to DO the math and physics involved, which is why I didn't want to get into this stuff.

    Everything is relative to something else. An "average" beach in North America is different than an "average" beach in Australia. An "average" curve on a fastball is different than an "average" curve on a golf swing. When I take out my camera, an "average" picture with automatic exposure is different than one with manual exposure.

    There really is no such thing as average for your scenario. You need to figure out solid and stable objects to work from and allow for different environmental situations that can alter your math. That is why I gave the height of the tree, the sea level and so on.

    Oh, and don't forget to factor in what you had for breakfast, of course! LOL 

    No.  That's silly.

    We are talking about an object going over the side of a ball so it's hidden from view.

    That's all.

    It's ubiquitous on beaches around the world.

    Person stands on beach and boat disappears over the curve.

    Average distance should be very easy to calculate give or take a mile.

    That's all I'm asking.



    Offline Miser Peccator

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    Re: Flat Earth-curious
    « Reply #152 on: January 10, 2022, 09:11:14 PM »
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  • What height is the ship, what height is the observer (eye height)? We need a few more parameters.

    When we have those, we can calculate it as described here: https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/593064/how-to-calculate-how-much-of-an-object-is-hidden-due-to-earth-curvature

    Earth's radius is 3959mi or 6371km.

    Or we use this simpler formula: h = 6,371km * (1 - cos(0.009° * d))
    We could solve for d here if h is known (too tired for that right now).
    Let's assume the observer is on water level, and the ship is 30m high.

    6371 * (1 - cos(0,009 * 19,55)) = 30m
    So that gives us roughly d = 19,55km fo ar distance with the assumption of no atmospheric effects going on for the ship to stay visible longer or shorter.


    So if I understand this correctly that's about 12miles out.

    Is that right?

    Do others here who favor the Ball Earth model agree that's a pretty good average?

    I've heard some say it would be at about 3 miles out.

    I'm really not interested in the gobbley gook.

    Just a simple answer.

    I'm okay with, "It would probably be "between 3 to 12 miles" according to standard calculations.

    What do the Ball Earth model proponents think?

    Does this sound about right?

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Flat Earth-curious
    « Reply #153 on: January 10, 2022, 09:42:42 PM »
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  • Brain is already mush for today, back is bugging me from shoveling, and I could only wish there were more sun around here! I don't trust a whole lot of what NASA says, but it cannot all be garbage.

    It doesn't all have to be garbage, but since NASA has been demonstrated to lie, and lie a lot, then nothing can simply be accepted by their authority.  We can't simply take their word for it.  Really the biggest argument your average person has for globe earth is because "NASA has pictures".  Very few can cite any actual scientific evidence.  Of the few who can, it's invariably the boats disappearing over the horizon.  99% of the popular perception comes from NASA and just the sheer force of it having been implanted in everyone's minds since earliest youth.  Every kindergarten class has a globe in it.

    Offline Anne Evergreen

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    Re: Flat Earth-curious
    « Reply #154 on: January 10, 2022, 10:01:24 PM »
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  • It doesn't all have to be garbage, but since NASA has been demonstrated to lie, and lie a lot, then nothing can simply be accepted by their authority.  We can't simply take their word for it.  Really the biggest argument your average person has for globe earth is because "NASA has pictures".  Very few can cite any actual scientific evidence.  Of the few who can, it's invariably the boats disappearing over the horizon.  99% of the popular perception comes from NASA and just the sheer force of it having been implanted in everyone's minds since earliest youth.  Every kindergarten class has a globe in it.
    I noticed that you did not comment on anything about the pictures of Christ the King with a globe that I brought up. Why is that?
    "The world is thy ship, and not thy home."--The Little Flower


    Offline Miser Peccator

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    Re: Flat Earth-curious
    « Reply #155 on: January 10, 2022, 10:49:19 PM »
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  • I noticed that you did not comment on anything about the pictures of Christ the King with a globe that I brought up. Why is that?

    This thread addressed your question already.

    https://www.cathinfo.com/the-earth-god-made-flat-earth-geocentrism/how-do-flat-earth-catholics-explain-these-devotions/msg788032/#msg788032

    Offline Anne Evergreen

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    Re: Flat Earth-curious
    « Reply #156 on: January 10, 2022, 11:11:02 PM »
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  • This thread addressed your question already.

    https://www.cathinfo.com/the-earth-god-made-flat-earth-geocentrism/how-do-flat-earth-catholics-explain-these-devotions/msg788032/#msg788032
    Okay, thank-you. I hopped over there, read it, and well, still think the earth is round. It's not a point that really matters, either. ;)
    "The world is thy ship, and not thy home."--The Little Flower

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Flat Earth-curious
    « Reply #157 on: January 11, 2022, 06:57:40 AM »
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  • I noticed that you did not comment on anything about the pictures of Christ the King with a globe that I brought up. Why is that?

    I’ve commented multiple times on such pictures.  First of all, they’re art.  There are pictures of Jesus in early Christian art showing Him clean-shaven.  Art is not Magisterium.  Secondly, even though we live in a flat plane, the world is in fact shaped like a globe due to the firmament dome.  It’s more like a snow globe.  DL showed a picture of an empty / hollow globe on one such artistic rendering.  But it’s just art and not evidence either way.


    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Flat Earth-curious
    « Reply #158 on: January 11, 2022, 07:37:42 AM »
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  • I’ve commented multiple times on such pictures.  First of all, they’re art.  There are pictures of Jesus in early Christian art showing Him clean-shaven.  Art is not Magisterium.  Secondly, even though we live in a flat plane, the world is in fact shaped like a globe due to the firmament dome.  It’s more like a snow globe.  DL showed a picture of an empty / hollow globe on one such artistic rendering.  But it’s just art and not evidence either way.
    This thread: https://www.cathinfo.com/the-earth-god-made-flat-earth-geocentrism/how-do-flat-earth-catholics-explain-these-devotions/msg790316/#msg790316
    "For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears:" [2 Tim. 4:3]

    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    Offline Dankward

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    Re: Flat Earth-curious
    « Reply #159 on: January 11, 2022, 03:06:20 PM »
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  • Is there an earth curve calculator we can use?
    Yes, here's an easy one: https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/earth-curvature
    (no refraction or other factors are considered)

    And here an advanced one: http://walter.bislins.ch/bloge/index.asp?page=Advanced+Earth+Curvature+Calculator

    Most known factors are considered here, especially refraction.

    With this we can calculate at which distance the ship whould completely disappear below the horizon.

    Offline Dankward

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    Re: Flat Earth-curious
    « Reply #160 on: January 11, 2022, 03:13:35 PM »
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  • So if I understand this correctly that's about 12miles out.

    Is that right?

    Do others here who favor the Ball Earth model agree that's a pretty good average?

    I've heard some say it would be at about 3 miles out.

    I'm really not interested in the gobbley gook.

    Just a simple answer.

    I'm okay with, "It would probably be "between 3 to 12 miles" according to standard calculations.

    What do the Ball Earth model proponents think?

    Does this sound about right?
    Yes, geometrically the ship should be hidden by the drop of Earths curvature at 12 miles out, with no refraction going on, so this is pretty idealistic.

    Consider this to see how these 12 miles could be different on different days:


    Offline Anne Evergreen

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    Re: Flat Earth-curious
    « Reply #161 on: January 11, 2022, 03:55:01 PM »
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  • I’ve commented multiple times on such pictures.  First of all, they’re art.  There are pictures of Jesus in early Christian art showing Him clean-shaven.  Art is not Magisterium.  Secondly, even though we live in a flat plane, the world is in fact shaped like a globe due to the firmament dome.  It’s more like a snow globe.  DL showed a picture of an empty / hollow globe on one such artistic rendering.  But it’s just art and not evidence either way.
    That's nice. "...it's just art and not evidence either way." So what you are saying is that we could actually live on a globe? 

    Oh, but you just finished telling me that I don't care about Catholic dogma on another thread, but now you are trying to tell me we live in a snow globe? LOL. :laugh1:

    Pass the Prozac. The earth is not flat, imo. But you don't care anyway what some woman thinks because we are all just "feminists" according to you. Oh I am getting the picture now. You probably have never changed a diaper in your life or bathed a baby, have you? How many other men are like that here? Have kids but don't do a darn thing to help? Don't give two hoots about the feelings of your wife. One man didn't think I am a woman. Pure bonkers! This is the grumpy old men club if you ask me.

    If it is "just art and not evidence either way," then such art pictures of Christ the King would be a type of blasphemy and condemned. But they are not, and so therefore I can believe the earth is a globe (which it is), and you can believe the earth is flat (which it isn't).

    Not buying it. The earth is a globe, and I don't live in some snow globe (which I happen to collect of the Nativity!) 

    Go babysit your grandchildren if you have any, and do something fun like coloring.
    Anne.

    "The world is thy ship, and not thy home."--The Little Flower

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Flat Earth-curious
    « Reply #162 on: January 11, 2022, 04:17:53 PM »
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  • I noticed that you did not comment on anything about the pictures of Christ the King with a globe that I brought up. Why is that?

    While I think this has already been explained, I'll address it, because it needs to be reiterated. The "globe" of the earth doesn't necessarily mean a ball-shaped earth. It means, to us flat-earthers, that the globe is a system, which includes the flat land of the earth, and also includes the firmament dome above (as is described in Genesis), and Hell below. That's the old Hebrew belief of how the earth is shaped. It's what we believe Scripture describes. So when you see a globe in certain Church paintings, we believe that it means the flat earth system globe. If that makes sense.
    "Our society is so abnormal that the normal man never dreams of having the normal occupation of looking after one's own property. When he chooses a trade, he chooses one of the ten thousand trades that involve looking after other people's property."

    ~ G.K. Chesterton, Commonwealth, Oct. 12, 1932.

    Offline Anne Evergreen

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    Re: Flat Earth-curious
    « Reply #163 on: January 11, 2022, 04:50:14 PM »
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  • While I think this has already been explained, I'll address it, because it needs to be reiterated. The "globe" of the earth doesn't necessarily mean a ball-shaped earth. It means, to us flat-earthers, that the globe is a system, which includes the flat land of the earth, and also includes the firmament dome above (as is described in Genesis), and Hell below. That's the old Hebrew belief of how the earth is shaped. It's what we believe Scripture describes. So when you see a globe in certain Church paintings, we believe that it means the flat earth system globe. If that makes sense.
    Lad was talking to me. I was dealing with Lad. 
    "The world is thy ship, and not thy home."--The Little Flower

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Flat Earth-curious
    « Reply #164 on: January 11, 2022, 04:50:43 PM »
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  • Lad was talking to me. I was dealing with Lad.

    I know that. I gave my opinion anyway. It happens on a forum. 
    "Our society is so abnormal that the normal man never dreams of having the normal occupation of looking after one's own property. When he chooses a trade, he chooses one of the ten thousand trades that involve looking after other people's property."

    ~ G.K. Chesterton, Commonwealth, Oct. 12, 1932.