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Author Topic: Why I Do Not Push the Sede Position  (Read 11517 times)

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Re: Why I Do Not Push the Sede Position
« Reply #70 on: November 10, 2017, 07:17:56 AM »
I have never pushed the sede position on anyone mainly because all the sede groups teach that anyone can be saved without baptism and Christ in any way shape or form. Same goes for the SSPX. If the sedes and SSPX came to the conclusion that say the dogmatic Athanasian Creed means the complete opposite of what it says by their "theological analysis" , how can I believe them on the sede position, since our current situation is unprecedented while EENS is likely the most dogmatically docuмented teaching in the Church?
That is the subject. Possible discussions would have been:

The sede group  I belong to does not teach salvation without belief in the Incarnation (Christ) and the Holy Trinity
the SSPX is right, people can be saved in other religions, Abp. Lefevbre said so.
One can be saved by Implicit desire for baptism by their belief in a God that rewards, implicitly they believe in Christ, which does not go against the Athanasian Creed.
Our current sede situation is not unprecedented and it is as doctrinally defined as EENS

Re: Why I Do Not Push the Sede Position
« Reply #71 on: November 10, 2017, 07:46:29 AM »
That is the subject. Possible discussions would have been:

The sede group  I belong to does not teach salvation without belief in the Incarnation (Christ) and the Holy Trinity
the SSPX is right, people can be saved in other religions, Abp. Lefevbre said so.
One can be saved by Implicit desire for baptism by their belief in a God that rewards, implicitly they believe in Christ, which does not go against the Athanasian Creed.
Our current sede situation is not unprecedented and it is as doctrinally defined as EENS
Great, then if you want a less stupid thread, pick one, and frame it "yeah" or "nay", pro or con. 

It'll still derail, but it'll be less muddy, easier to track, and instead of inclining responses towards chaos by introducing distinct, and so extraneous, things you'll have, one step at a time, exactly one point to be addressed, that isn't framed as "i prefer this", which is an invitation to "okay" or "whatever".

You post it, you're framing it. If you don't want a certain tone, then don't set that tone. 

Take too many big bites, and you end up with a pile of puke. Smallest bites, esp. where there is no moderation, is safer. 


Re: Why I Do Not Push the Sede Position
« Reply #72 on: November 10, 2017, 07:51:16 AM »
Sorry RS, at first I was going to agree, but I'm afraid we'll remain in different boats even during that period of time, for I will be in the boat with other Catholics living during the period of sede vacante only until the next pope is elected, but you will still be a sedevacantist, floating away in your own boat along with DZ, Freedom, AES and other sedevacantists, none of whom want anything to do with being in the boat that I am in.

Always remember, sedevacantists have no pope and they will never have a pope, nor do they have any means whatsoever of ever having a pope. Remember, the sedes have gone to great lengths to guarantee that there will never be any possibility of  them ever having a pope.
You are wrong, again. If Bergoglio converted (100%) tomorrow, I WOULD accept him as a true pope due to the principle of acclamation.

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Re: Why I Do Not Push the Sede Position
« Reply #73 on: November 10, 2017, 09:19:15 AM »
You are wrong, again. If Bergoglio converted (100%) tomorrow, I WOULD accept him as a true pope due to the principle of acclamation.
As I said, the sedes have gone to great lengths to guarantee that there will never be any possibility of  them ever having a pope.

You make the pope's election, and I mean any and every pope's election useless, that is, unless and until he / his conversion first passes your own private scrutinization, but that's not yet enough, because you then include that everyone else must agree with your scrutinization as an additional condition. That is what you are saying.

Like I said, sedes can never, not ever have a pope - period, which is what keeps us in separate boats.  

Re: Why I Do Not Push the Sede Position
« Reply #74 on: November 10, 2017, 09:50:38 AM »
As I said, the sedes have gone to great lengths to guarantee that there will never be any possibility of  them ever having a pope.

You make the pope's election, and I mean any and every pope's election useless, that is, unless and until he / his conversion first passes your own private scrutinization, but that's not yet enough, because you then include that everyone else must agree with your scrutinization as an additional condition. That is what you are saying.

Like I said, sedes can never, not ever have a pope - period, which is what keeps us in separate boats.  
Please don't put ALL Roman Catholics who profess the sedevacantist position in the same category as those who are united to the group that calls themselves Most Holy Family Monastery. 
Read this small thread, you must have missed it:  https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/i-pray-i-live-long-enough-to-hear-these-words-repeated/