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Author Topic: Which trad group has had the best fruits? SSPX? FSSP/Indult? Resistance? SVs?  (Read 6235 times)

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Online Ladislaus

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Re: Which trad group has had the best fruits? SSPX? FSSP/Indult? Resistance? SVs?
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2024, 10:40:27 AM »
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  • RobertS plan is to grow the Vat II mission of blessing same sex unions, all religions equal, Jews don't need Christ, etc and then support all the Vat II Priests that remain silent while the apostasy grows and refuse to join the remnant of the faithful that stay true to The Dogma of the Faith.

    Correct.  He wants us to convert us to that religion.  That's his "activism".  He feels no need to convert the 95%+ of Conciliars who are open heretics by their own polling data.

    But, then, Siscoe, why are you trying to prosletyze / convert us?  Jorge denounced your efforts as wicked and sinful.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Which trad group has had the best fruits? SSPX? FSSP/Indult? Resistance? SVs?
    « Reply #16 on: September 05, 2024, 01:47:04 PM »
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  • RobertS plan is to grow the Vat II mission of blessing same sex unions, all religions equal, Jews don't need Christ, etc and then support all the Vat II Priests that remain silent while the apostasy grows and refuse to join the remnant of the faithful that stay true to The Dogma of the Faith.
    Now this is a new member I can get on board with! Welcome!


    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Which trad group has had the best fruits? SSPX? FSSP/Indult? Resistance? SVs?
    « Reply #17 on: September 05, 2024, 03:24:19 PM »
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  • FSSP/Indult/ICK/Diocesan TLMs/Motu Masses: Probably at least 10,000 of the world's 400,000+ Priests (2.5%). Some 100 MN faithful. Will probably grow to at least 50,000 Priests, and so hopefully some 500 MN faithful (5X increase), by 2050, the way the TLM is growing and spreading within the Roman Catholic Church.
    .

    What are the fruits of the Indult? Well, a large percentage of those people are living in adultery that is sanctioned by their false religion, and receive the sacraments. The Indult completely accepts the fake marriage annulments that are contrary to Catholic teaching and practice on marriage for almost 2,000 years before Vatican 2. Sure, they like Latin and chant, but they love their divorce/remarriage system as well, and defend it and practice it.

    One case is too many, but in the Indult there are a significant percentage of people who live in church-sanctioned adultery, and receive the sacraments with the blessing of the clergy. Even the ones who don't still believe in practice that they can abandon their spouse if they want to without committing sin, as long as they don't get "married" again.

    Since you asked, these are extremely rotten fruits.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Which trad group has had the best fruits? SSPX? FSSP/Indult? Resistance? SVs?
    « Reply #18 on: September 05, 2024, 04:05:20 PM »
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  • .

    What are the fruits of the Indult? Well, a large percentage of those people are living in adultery ...

    Nah, come on.  "Fruits" are based on raw numbers.  In that case, Islam bears greater "fruit" than Traditional Catholicism, and even Motarianism, as do many Protestant denominations.

    Offline Gunter

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    Re: Which trad group has had the best fruits? SSPX? FSSP/Indult? Resistance? SVs?
    « Reply #19 on: September 05, 2024, 05:08:21 PM »
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  • Nope still a sinner.  Weakness + forgetfulness = total dependence on God's Grace and mercy.


    Offline Crayolcold

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    Re: Which trad group has had the best fruits? SSPX? FSSP/Indult? Resistance? SVs?
    « Reply #20 on: September 05, 2024, 06:22:05 PM »
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  • A tree can produce 1,000,000 apples, but if they are all rotten on the stem, it does not bear good fruit. 

    You are comparing quantities as if that implies quality. Just because someone goes to the Latin Mass does not mean that they are Catholic.
    Pray for me

    Offline StAndrew

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    Re: Which trad group has had the best fruits? SSPX? FSSP/Indult? Resistance? SVs?
    « Reply #21 on: September 06, 2024, 02:43:27 AM »
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  • Whats about the Novus Ordo's fruits?

    The total colapse of catholic faith and moral. Even in the Nations that remained catholics in the 60's such as Spain.

    Numbers are all that matter. Faith? Who needs that? /s

    Online Gray2023

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    Re: Which trad group has had the best fruits? SSPX? FSSP/Indult? Resistance? SVs?
    « Reply #22 on: September 06, 2024, 12:31:47 PM »
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  • So let's take stock of the traditional movement as it exists in this Year of Our Lord 2024. Let's also do some planning and projections etc to where we see Tradition growing in the next 10 years, i.e. by roughly 2033, the 2000th Anniversary of Christ's Crucifixion/Resurrection, and in the next 25 years. By 2050 or so.

    SSPX: Some 700 Priests. 3 Bishops. Some 10 MN faithful. Would probably cross 1000 Priests by 2033, and maybe 10,000 by 2050. Faithful might grow correspondingly by about 15 times to around 150 million or so.
    FSSP/Indult/ICK/Diocesan TLMs/Motu Masses: Probably at least 10,000 of the world's 400,000+ Priests (2.5%). Some 100 MN faithful. Will probably grow to at least 50,000 Priests, and so hopefully some 500 MN faithful (5X increase), by 2050, the way the TLM is growing and spreading within the Roman Catholic Church.

    Resistance: ??? (others who know can fill in. I'm not Resistance). How many Priests? I think some 6 Bishops IIRC.
    SVs/Sedes: ???
    Miscellaneous independent groups: ???
    Your numbers for the Latin Mass in the Novus Ordo is overestimated.  The actual TLM  is 1529 or so, based on https://www.latinmassdir.org/countries/.  There are not 10000 priests saying the Latin Mass.

    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Which trad group has had the best fruits? SSPX? FSSP/Indult? Resistance? SVs?
    « Reply #23 on: September 06, 2024, 12:46:17 PM »
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  • Your numbers for the Latin Mass in the Novus Ordo is overestimated.  The actual TLM  is 1529 or so, based on https://www.latinmassdir.org/countries/.  There are not 10000 priests saying the Latin Mass.

    Not to mention that he completely makes up his projections for "future growth", given that Jorge is actively suppressing the Tridentine Mass.  As mentioned, in Cleveland it's down from 6 to 2 ... and the 2 remaining are under appeal and likely to be rejected.  So only 1 ICK and 1 FSSP will be left standing.

    Offline LeDeg

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    Re: Which trad group has had the best fruits? SSPX? FSSP/Indult? Resistance? SVs?
    « Reply #24 on: September 06, 2024, 02:29:27 PM »
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  • There is no way in hell that the SSPX has 10 million attendees. I doubt they even have 500k. 
    "You must train harder than the enemy who is trying to kill you. You will get all the rest you need in the grave."- Leon Degrelle

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Which trad group has had the best fruits? SSPX? FSSP/Indult? Resistance? SVs?
    « Reply #25 on: September 06, 2024, 03:02:21 PM »
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  • There is no way in hell that the SSPX has 10 million attendees. I doubt they even have 500k.
    .

    Yes, the statistics in the OP were definitely off by at least a decimal place, most of them. Some looked like they were off by two decimal places.


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Which trad group has had the best fruits? SSPX? FSSP/Indult? Resistance? SVs?
    « Reply #26 on: September 06, 2024, 11:56:57 PM »
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  • The SSPX (before 2012) and Resistance (after 2012) by far has had the best fruits, and is the best position for riding out the Crisis in the Church.

    Second choice would be sedevacantism.

    Next would be Indult.

    Closely after that would be "conservative Conciliar/Novus Ordo".

    But those bottom two give you virtually no chance of surviving the Crisis with your Faith intact, saving your soul, and/or passing on the Faith to your children.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Which trad group has had the best fruits? SSPX? FSSP/Indult? Resistance? SVs?
    « Reply #27 on: September 07, 2024, 06:57:24 AM »
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  • The SSPX (before 2012) and Resistance (after 2012) by far has had the best fruits, and is the best position for riding out the Crisis in the Church.

    Second choice would be sedevacantism.

    Next would be Indult.

    Closely after that would be "conservative Conciliar/Novus Ordo".

    But those bottom two give you virtually no chance of surviving the Crisis with your Faith intact, saving your soul, and/or passing on the Faith to your children.
    Then what are their "best fruits"?  This doesn't make sense to me.

    Offline Marulus Fidelis

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    Re: Which trad group has had the best fruits? SSPX? FSSP/Indult? Resistance? SVs?
    « Reply #28 on: September 07, 2024, 07:47:27 AM »
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  • Then what are their "best fruits"?  This doesn't make sense to me.
    Exactly. The indults greatest rotten fruit, eclipsing all others, is keeping people away from the true faith.

    Speaking of the good fruits of the Indult is like speaking about the good fruits of Anglicanism.

    Offline Soubirous

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    Re: Which trad group has had the best fruits? SSPX? FSSP/Indult? Resistance? SVs?
    « Reply #29 on: September 07, 2024, 08:32:27 AM »
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  • Then what are their "best fruits"?  This doesn't make sense to me.

    In a roundabout or backhanded way, serving as mileposts on the path to True Tradition? Lots of folks here have taken that route.

    And while we're speaking of fruits, the Galatians 5:22-23 list is the only one that matters. Not crude numbers or worldly inventories.

    Quote
    But the fruit of the Spirit is, charity, joy, peace, patience, benignity, goodness, longanimity, Mildness, faith, modesty, continency, chastity.

    Let nothing disturb you, let nothing frighten you, all things pass away: God never changes. Patience obtains all things. He who has God finds he lacks nothing; God alone suffices. - St. Teresa of Jesus