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Author Topic: VII Was The Great Apostasy Change My Mind  (Read 5928 times)

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Offline Catholic Knight

Re: VII Was The Great Apostasy Change My Mind
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2023, 09:24:30 AM »
Quote from: Miser Peccator on October 14, 2023, 09:12:39 AM

Hmm...okay.  So help me understand, please. :)

We can sign docuŠ¼ents that essentially say

"People don't need no First Commandment"

and

"People don't need no Jesus"

cuz one god is as good as another


and still remain in the Church?

In order for one to accuse another who claims to be Catholic of "heresy" he needs sufficient evidence that the other pertinaciously denies or doubts a proposition that must be believed with Divine and Catholic Faith or asserts a proposition that is in contradiction to a teaching of the Church that must be believed with Divine and Catholic Faith.  What you are doing is making a blanket statement for all the individuals concerned.  That is wrong.  You haven't proven your case for heresy, let alone apostasy for all the individuals concerned. 
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Offline AnthonyPadua

  • Supporter
Re: VII Was The Great Apostasy Change My Mind
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2023, 09:24:57 AM »
Quote from: DecemRationis on October 14, 2023, 09:14:22 AM
To me the heretical part is the part including Muslims in the "plan of salvation." You could argue that all men are included as potential converts to Christ, but the mark here is simply "acknowledg[ing] a creator," not simply being human and capable of conversion to Christ and the Gospel. So a benign interpretation doesn't cut it for me.

The other saying could be read as Muslims worship a merciful, but judging, god, which they do.
Except it refers to the Muslim god as the judge.... Jesus Christ is the judge...
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Offline Miser Peccator

Re: VII Was The Great Apostasy Change My Mind
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2023, 09:27:49 AM »
Quote from: DecemRationis on October 14, 2023, 09:14:22 AM
To me the heretical part is the part including Muslims in the "plan of salvation." You could argue that all men are included as potential converts to Christ, but the mark here is simply "acknowledg[ing] a creator," not simply being human and capable of conversion to Christ and the Gospel. So a benign interpretation doesn't cut it for me.

The other saying could be read as Muslims worship a merciful, but judging, god, which they do.


"together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."




Some key words are:

"together with us"  :confused:  Really?

"the one merciful god"  What???

(I replaced the capital with the small g because I don't want to blaspheme the true GOD.)

"mankind's judge on the last day"  Whoahhh....I don't want to be judged by Allah!


Many say, "Well they worship God the Father."

Nope.

Not possible because they deny Jesus as the Son of God.

"Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me."


"Who is a liar, but he who denieth that Jesus is the Christ? This is Antichrist, who denieth the Father, and the Son."



If that isn't a complete repudiation of the Catholic Faith, I don't know what would be.  :/
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Offline DecemRationis

  • Supporter
Re: VII Was The Great Apostasy Change My Mind
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2023, 09:34:36 AM »
Quote from: AnthonyPadua on October 14, 2023, 09:24:57 AM
Except it refers to the Muslim god as the judge.... Jesus Christ is the judge...

:facepalm:

Good grief. Yeah, of course, but the statement says simply they worship a God that judges. 

I'm not defending the statement. I said, "it could be read . . ." They do worship a God who judges. It could be read simply that way. Again, I said "could." 

You could also read what I said as, "I have a bigger problem with . . . " I was not saying the other part is fine, especially with its implications, but the other part is worse for me, much worse. 

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Offline Miser Peccator

Re: VII Was The Great Apostasy Change My Mind
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2023, 09:38:03 AM »
Quote from: DecemRationis on October 14, 2023, 09:34:36 AM
:facepalm:

Good grief. Yeah, of course, but the statement says simply they worship a God that judges.

I'm not defending the statement. I said, "it could be read . . ." They do worship a God who judges. It could be read simply that way. Again, I said "could."

You could also read what I said as, "I have a bigger problem with . . . " I was not saying the other part is fine, especially with its implications, but the other part is worse for me, much worse.




Sadly, it makes it clear they worship "together with us".

So not just "a god" but the same God as us.

Do you think they worship the same God as Catholics

and worship "together with us"?

I don't.  I think that is blasphemous and a complete repudiation of the First Commandment

and a denial of Our Lord Jesus Christ

qualifying them as "antichrists"

as St John defined.
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